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  1. #1
    placebo doesnt effect me or_yourlivingtodie's Avatar
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    tribulus alatus?

    how come thermolife is the only one who uses this ingredient? do they own it or something? it looks like a cool ingredient, how come no one else uses it?
    Last edited by or_yourlivingtodie; 11-02-2009 at 12:28 PM.
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  2. #2
    refocused ~Hades~'s Avatar
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    Purus Labs uses it in Recycle
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by or_yourlivingtodie View Post
    how come thermolife is the only one who uses this ingredient? do they own it or something? it looks like a cool ingredient, how come no one else uses it?
    It's in another product called RECYCLE.

    Tho Im sure there was some thread about how legit it was, tho PL seems to be a legit company.

    Both companies look solid. Im unsure why other companies haven't jumped on this! I remember reading the info on it before T-BOL even came out, so I'm unsure how patents and what not actually work.

    It seems to have some promise.

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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by ~Hades~ View Post
    Purus Labs uses it in Recycle
    But bb.com wouldn't carry that product due to the TA from what I recall
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  5. #5
    *Registered BCS shill* Rodzilla01's Avatar
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  6. #6
    refocused ~Hades~'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    But bb.com wouldn't carry that product due to the TA from what I recall
    Originally Posted by Rodzilla01 View Post
    Any specific reason they wouldnt carry it or because TL didnt want them to?
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  7. #7
    *Registered BCS shill* Rodzilla01's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ~Hades~ View Post
    Any specific reason they wouldnt carry it or because TL didnt want them to?
    TL's attorneys supposedly contacted BB.com about it...
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  8. #8
    Actual Pharmacist Bane's Avatar
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    We have a patent pending on TA. Plus i can bet you good, very good money it is not TA in the other product. We had more than 10 providers that offered us Tribulus Terrestris as Alatus. Trust me, getting REAL TA is very very hard.
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  9. #9
    iCompete VaughnTrue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    We have a patent pending on TA. Plus i can bet you good, very good money it is not TA in the other product. We had more than 10 providers that offered us Tribulus Terrestris as Alatus. Trust me, getting REAL TA is very very hard.
    but a patent that's pending isn't a patent...no?


    i-force has no plans on using this ingredient, so dont worry...just curious as to how a pending patent can prevent others from using it.
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  10. #10
    Are you Driven? Sldge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    but a patent that's pending isn't a patent...no?


    i-force has no plans on using this ingredient, so dont worry...just curious as to how a pending patent can prevent others from using it.
    Correct. They can notify you that they have a patent pending and should they get that you either stop selling it / go to court over possible royalties etc. That is also totally separate from what the patented use is for, what the other companies are using it for etc etc etc.
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  11. #11
    iCompete VaughnTrue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sldge View Post
    Correct. They can notify you that they have a patent pending and should they get that you either stop selling it / go to court over possible royalties etc. That is also totally separate from what the patented use is for, what the other companies are using it for etc etc etc.
    what stance is TL taking on their patent? There is prior art showing its use as an effective testosterone, free testosterone, and LH increaser, so if a company used it for those reasons, I can't see how anyone could prevent them from using it.
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  12. #12
    Actual Pharmacist Bane's Avatar
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    Well the patent will be published at some point for all to see. Meanwhile if I were one of those trying to copy TA i'd worry more if the brown powder that the Chinese manufacturer I trust so much is actually TA or not.
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  13. #13
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    Is this going to be another turkesterone-type debate?
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  14. #14
    Are you Driven? Sldge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    what stance is TL taking on their patent? There is prior art showing its use as an effective testosterone, free testosterone, and LH increaser, so if a company used it for those reasons, I can't see how anyone could prevent them from using it.
    No clue but if it has anything to do with testosterone or blood sugar its going to be hard to get a patent cause neither of those are new or novel and is beyond obvious which is what is required to get a patent. Also there was prior art because of the studies and as far as I know Thermolife didnt pay for those studies so it isnt their art or data.

    Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    Well the patent will be published at some point for all to see. Meanwhile if I were one of those trying to copy TA i'd worry more if the brown powder that the Chinese manufacturer I trust so much is actually TA or not.
    Ahh more of the great Chinese conspiracy.
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    Im in India currently and met with a couple of manufacturers who make genuine Tribulus Alatus. I asked them whether anyone can buy it due to the Thermo patent issue. They said its been around for hundreds of years and the Indian government would never recognize such a patent... WTF gives ?
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    what stance is TL taking on their patent? There is prior art showing its use as an effective testosterone, free testosterone, and LH increaser, so if a company used it for those reasons, I can't see how anyone could prevent them from using it.
    That will probably all be evaluated in the patent prosecution, getting a utility patent takes a long time and a lot of $$.
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    Question that I thought up yesterday.

    If this is a novel compound, then according to my understanding of DSHEA, you have to have approval from the FDA to bring it to market. ThermoLife's claim is exactly this, and is why they have a supposed patent on TA so that no one else can use it without permission.

    If it is not a novel compound, and has been studied or used before DSHEA, then it is grand-fathered in, and does not need FDA approval. However, if this is the case, then ThermoLife cannot have an exclusive patent to use TA, unless it is part of a proprietary blend.

    Now, if that is the case, ThermoLife has to have both or none. So which is it?
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  18. #18
    Are you Driven? Sldge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Macrobolic View Post
    Question that I thought up yesterday.

    If this is a novel compound, then according to my understanding of DSHEA, you have to have approval from the FDA to bring it to market. ThermoLife's claim is exactly this, and is why they have a supposed patent on TA so that no one else can use it without permission.

    If it is not a novel compound, and has been studied or used before DSHEA, then it is grand-fathered in, and does not need FDA approval. However, if this is the case, then ThermoLife cannot have an exclusive patent to use TA, unless it is part of a proprietary blend.

    Now, if that is the case, ThermoLife has to have both or none. So which is it?
    Its a botanical which makes it DSHEA complaint and could be considered to be safe because it has been used for hundreds of years without serious side effects.

    People are getting confused on the differences between PPAs (patent pending application) and having an actual patent. Thermolife can not stop anyone from using Tribulus Alatus (TA), they do not have a patent currently. If they have a patent app filed which will eventually be posted and up for review they can notify any companies using TA that they have filed a PPA. In 4-5+ years should TL get the patent for TA (which is a plant they did not discover, which has previous data in the public domain which they did not sponsor and is used currently for a obvious use regarding the scientific data) then they can go back to all the companies they notified and either work out compensation or go to court to fight for it.

    Since the use of TA for testosterone enhancement, aphrodisiac or blood sugar control are all obvious and non-novel applications it is unlikely that TL (or anyone else for that matter) would get a patent issued. Which means that basically anyone can use TA for the above uses without worry. It doesnt mean that TL still cant try to sue you for its use and you will have to pay to fight it but it would be unlikely that they would win.

    Now if they found a unique constituent that did something that the researchers did not discover during their studies and is not an obvious use (lets say constituent Z regrows hair) then TL can file a patent for that use only. It doesnt prevent anyone else for using it for the other known uses, it just prevents anyone from using it to regrow hair.

    This is what happens with forskolin. Sabinsa has a patent for the use of increases lean muscle (IIRC), so you can purchase Forslean (their patented constituent) from them and use it for that use. Or you can buy Coleus Forskohlii which contains forskolin but you cannot make the claim for increasing lean muscle if that is what Sabinsa has covered.
    Matt Cahill
    www.DrivenSports.com
    www.drivensports.co.uk

    The next big Craze:
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/drivensports/craze.html
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    cellucor

    Actually a company called cellucor uses tribulus alatus in its P6 extreme testosterone booster
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