Power Cleans + Back Squats in same workout: okay?

[dexterium]

What do you guys think of starting off a workout with Power Cleans and then doing Back Squats next? Just worried that it might be too taxing on my lower back. I don't find it to be too hard on me. Thanks,

Dex

[biggerthanyou89]

yes more than ok legs should be absolutely punished , do as much as you can, calves every day

[TomMutaffis]

Originally Posted by dexterium

What do you guys think of starting off a workout with Power Cleans and then doing Back Squats next? Just worried that it might be too taxing on my lower back. I don't find it to be too hard on me. Thanks,

Dex

There are a couple of factors to consider here:
- What are your goals?
- What is your strength level and proficiency with the cleans?

Someone who is very strong on cleans but has poor technique would tire out their low back quite a bit, but an athlete who is proficient or is not very strong on the movement likely would not fatigue very much.

If your goal is bodybuilding then it would probably make more sense to squat first since that is a superior exercise for overall mass, and of course leg development.

One way to work in cleans is to do them on your 'Back' day. The power clean uses a lot of upper back and in most cases the weights are not heavy enough to fatigue your legs. If you were worried about leg involvement you could always do hang cleans which isolate the 'Back' a bit more.

Hope this helps.

[biggerthanyou89]

sorry got a little excited, if your back is hurting do less weight but like your abs and calves, lower back can be worked every day excuse me shoudl be worked every day

[dexterium]

My goals are to get as big as possible, and get as strong as I can on power cleans and squats. I do very good form on power cleans. I did power cleans (160 lbs) and then 300 lb deadlifts after with no problems so I think I should be okay.

[TomMutaffis]

Originally Posted by dexterium

My goals are to get as big as possible, and get as strong as I can on power cleans and squats. I do very good form on power cleans. I did power cleans (160 lbs) and then 300 lb deadlifts after with no problems so I think I should be okay.

If your goal is to get as big and strong as possible I would Deadlift/Squat first and then power clean after that.

All of the exercises are compound movements but it is best to have your CNS and muscles fresh for the heaviest weights lifted - which would be the SQ/DL.

[dexterium]

Originally Posted by TomMutaffis

If your goal is to get as big and strong as possible I would Deadlift/Squat first and then power clean after that.

All of the exercises are compound movements but it is best to have your CNS and muscles fresh for the heaviest weights lifted - which would be the SQ/DL.

true thanks

[madaozeki]

I'd give the opposite advice actually.

All "power" lifts (ie. snatch, clean, jerk, etc) should in general be performed before "strength" lifts in your workout.

The limiting factor on a power clean is your ability to move the weight fast. It's NOT limited by strength (this is easy to see by the fact that you're deadlifting 300 but only cleaning 160).

Powercleans followed by squats is a GREAT combination. I've worked up to PR weights on squats following powercleans with no adverse effect over and over and over again. The reverse will fatigue you too much to do powercleans justice, however.

So yeah, do powercleans first, then back squats, and grow

PS It might be worthwhile to post a vid of your powerclean form. You know, just in case it's not "perfect"

[gbg]

Originally Posted by madaozeki

I'd give the opposite advice actually.

All "power" lifts (ie. snatch, clean, jerk, etc) should in general be performed before "strength" lifts in your workout.

The limiting factor on a power clean is your ability to move the weight fast. It's NOT limited by strength (this is easy to see by the fact that you're deadlifting 300 but only cleaning 160).

Powercleans followed by squats is a GREAT combination. I've worked up to PR weights on squats following powercleans with no adverse effect over and over and over again. The reverse will fatigue you too much to do powercleans justice, however.

So yeah, do powercleans first, then back squats, and grow

PS It might be worthwhile to post a vid of your powerclean form. You know, just in case it's not "perfect"

Mezzie to the rescue!

I do powercleans then squats, mezzie knows what he's talking about listen and learn.

[Opies]

powercleans should def. be done before squats. Low risk of injury and maximal weight can likely be used on squats, while if the order were reversed, the same could not be said about power cleans.

[Num3n]

Originally Posted by biggerthanyou89

sorry got a little excited, if your back is hurting do less weight but like your abs and calves, lower back can be worked every day excuse me shoudl be worked every day

LOL no........... bad ****ing advice right here. Do not workout a muscle 2 days in a row unless your on aas and can recover quicker due to this.

[Opies]

Originally Posted by Num3n

LOL no........... bad ****ing advice right here. Do not workout a muscle 2 days in a row unless your on aas and can recover quicker due to this.

most muscles are fine two days in a row if the volume is low... Lower back is not one of them though.

[keith4889]

Originally Posted by TomMutaffis

If your goal is to get as big and strong as possible I would Deadlift/Squat first and then power clean after that.

All of the exercises are compound movements but it is best to have your CNS and muscles fresh for the heaviest weights lifted - which would be the SQ/DL.

I agree 100%, my legs were fine doing cleans following squats, to be honest the hardest part was that my forearms are absolutely destroyed by my last rep.

[madaozeki]

Originally Posted by keith4889

I agree 100%, my legs were fine doing cleans following squats, to be honest the hardest part was that my forearms are absolutely destroyed by my last rep.

If your legs are fine after squats to do cleans and your forearms are destroyed by them, then you're not squatting deep/hard enough or doing cleans correctly. I could be wrong, but would love to see video...

[keith4889]

Originally Posted by madaozeki

If your legs are fine after squats to do cleans and your forearms are destroyed by them, then you're not squatting deep/hard enough or doing cleans correctly. I could be wrong, but would love to see video...

Im not arguing with you in anyway, but my form on cleans is fine, its more my form on squats that isnt. I can get in the whole deep enough. I can get parallel, maybe a little lower before my hip flexors hurt too much. Easy solution, stretch, I do, it hasnt seemed to make much of a difference yet.

[thesouthernson]

Originally Posted by madaozeki

I'd give the opposite advice actually.

All "power" lifts (ie. snatch, clean, jerk, etc) should in general be performed before "strength" lifts in your workout.

The limiting factor on a power clean is your ability to move the weight fast. It's NOT limited by strength (this is easy to see by the fact that you're deadlifting 300 but only cleaning 160).

Powercleans followed by squats is a GREAT combination. I've worked up to PR weights on squats following powercleans with no adverse effect over and over and over again. The reverse will fatigue you too much to do powercleans justice, however.

So yeah, do powercleans first, then back squats, and grow

PS It might be worthwhile to post a vid of your powerclean form. You know, just in case it's not "perfect"

I'll second that. Doing powerlifts first will help you maximize your performance in your heavier lifts. I did my explosive lifts the other day, and then i deadlifted better than ever. I also read this in men's health on the ****ter the other day, to do explosive lifts first, then your heavier. Long story short though, you can combine.

[madaozeki]

Originally Posted by keith4889

Im not arguing with you in anyway, but my form on cleans is fine, its more my form on squats that isnt. I can get in the whole deep enough. I can get parallel, maybe a little lower before my hip flexors hurt too much. Easy solution, stretch, I do, it hasnt seemed to make much of a difference yet.

That makes perfect sense then. If your squats are high, then you're not really getting much of a leg workout (at least not nearly to the extent than you would if you were able to squat deeper), so it's not going to cut into your powercleaning ability too much.

Yeah, stretching doesn't always work so well with squats. What worked for me was just "greasing the groove" every single workout with several triples at light/medium weight, sitting as deep in the low position as possible and really stretching there (while keeping everything tight and locked properly, of course). It's not so much about developing general flexibility, or even flexibility in the relevant parts of the body; rather it's about developing flexibility in the specific positions you hit while squatting. So that means squatting is really the best way to develop your flexibility, assuming it's done sensibly and incrementally

But if you're feeling pain, then all of the above may not apply to you...

[TomMutaffis]

Originally Posted by madaozeki

I'd give the opposite advice actually.

All "power" lifts (ie. snatch, clean, jerk, etc) should in general be performed before "strength" lifts in your workout.

The limiting factor on a power clean is your ability to move the weight fast. It's NOT limited by strength (this is easy to see by the fact that you're deadlifting 300 but only cleaning 160).

Powercleans followed by squats is a GREAT combination. I've worked up to PR weights on squats following powercleans with no adverse effect over and over and over again. The reverse will fatigue you too much to do powercleans justice, however.

So yeah, do powercleans first, then back squats, and grow

PS It might be worthwhile to post a vid of your powerclean form. You know, just in case it's not "perfect"

What you are saying makes sense, and that would be a great program for someone who is looking to get the most out of their power clean. It is true that squats are more demanding and would have an adverse effect on your power cleans whereas cleans would likely not negatively impact your squats in the same way, but if your primary goal is mass and general brute strength then power cleans are not a very useful exercise in general.

Power cleans are more of a technique movement and are great for building explosiveness. For building overall mass and brute strength then squats will be a much better choice. The overall volume and typical repetition range also need to be considered. Typically the olympic lifts are done in low rep ranges because form degenerates quickly, but squats are generally done in the 5-10+ rep range; providing more volume and in turn more hypertrophy. Time under tension is also vastly different between the two movements with the OLY lifts having very low time under tension.

I like to prioritize my movements and spend the most time/energy on the exercises that will give me the most return on investment. For someone who is looking for mass and power then I would focus on squat and do power cleans as a secondary movement.

What you said would be good for power/explosiveness gains, but if my goal is hypertrophy I would not do anything to tire myself out prior to what is arguably the #1 hypertrophy movement.

Hopefully this makes sense; this is the 'power-builder' perspective.

[hellawaits77]

Originally Posted by TomMutaffis

One way to work in cleans is to do them on your 'Back' day. The power clean uses a lot of upper back and in most cases the weights are not heavy enough to fatigue your legs. If you were worried about leg involvement you could always do hang cleans which isolate the 'Back' a bit more.

Hope this helps.

I agree. I find this to work best for me. My traps are always very sore the day after I do cleans, so it only make sense to train them on back day.