Why can some people dip a ton of weight, but not bench?

[W8isGR8]

1. dips are essentially decline bench press. you use more muscles than with a normal bench press

2. how much you dip depends on how much you weigh. a 400lb monster could bench 300lbs all day, but a 150lb kid who couldnt even unrack that weight could probably do more dips

Rly? please list all the extra muscles being used

[fmrmarineinbiz]

Rly? please list all the extra muscles being used

Some of the logic in this thread is pretty damn off. Then again, surprised? I've been the skinny 160lb guy who could neither bench his own weight, nor dip it. What about those? I think it's more about what you focus on in your training, and continue to practice, and hence teach your muscles to get better at doing. I've seen guys who can bench 315+ for reps but couldn't squat their body weight. I've seen the opposite too. There are weird gym paradoxes everywhere. The skinny little guy who can deadlift 3X his body weight un-suited is another example. He can do it, because he's practiced doing so repeatedly. I'm more focused on my weighted dips than my bench, and therefor I can bench a LOT less than my combined dip weight (215 b.w.+70-100lbs for double digit sets). I don't care either. I know, that's like weird, and downright blasphemy to some, but I'm happy with where I'm going.

[HankZuckler]

Some of the logic in this thread is pretty damn off. Then again, surprised? I've been the skinny 160lb guy who could neither bench his own weight, nor dip it. What about those? I think it's more about what you focus on in your training, and continue to practice, and hence teach your muscles to get better at doing. I've seen guys who can bench 315+ for reps but couldn't squat their body weight. I've seen the opposite too. There are weird gym paradoxes everywhere. The skinny little guy who can deadlift 3X his body weight un-suited is another example. He can do it, because he's practiced doing so repeatedly. I'm more focused on my weighted dips than my bench, and therefor I can bench a LOT less than my combined dip weight (215 b.w.+70-100lbs for double digit sets). I don't care either. I know, that's like weird, and downright blasphemy to some, but I'm happy with where I'm going.

This is a good point, thank you for clearing some stuff up. What you focus on and teach your muscles to do makes a ton of difference. I actually could do like three dips a few months ago and now I can do about 15 with practice. I don't think my bench (or decline bench) has near doubled, let alone quintupled (?). It does seem out of the ordinary for a 15 year old (the kid was 15) to focus on dips rather than bench, especially if hes putting in his sig. (saw these lifts in his signature), but otherwise this makes sense now. Thanks. Repd

[MrSinister]

same reason (all things being equal) you can decline more than you can flat bench.. id say its to do with the best combo of triceps and chest working together which they do on dips and decline press and you tend to be the strongest on those movements.. im rusty with biomechanics? but in a dip your triceps are generally tucked in, no shoulder awkwardness and you are nice and steady and hence pretty strong..
BUT at the same time, ive seen strong benches who cant dip for ****.. most likely because they dont even focus on dips

[shaneee]

idk but damn my dips are weak...but then again so is my bench lol..is this proportionate?

i do dips after the presses and just BWx8ish or so for like 4 sets, and the most i've did was a 25 lb weight between my legs for 5

[Slow-N-Steady]

1. dips are essentially decline bench press. you use more muscles than with a normal bench press

Exactly.

[SquatTilYouDrop]

Rly? please list all the extra muscles being used

Dip

Target

* Pectoralis Major, Sternal

Synergists

* Deltoid, Anterior
* Triceps Brachii
* Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
* Pectoralis Minor
* Rhomboids
* Levator Scapulae
* Latissimus Dorsi
* Teres Major

Stabilizers

* Trapezius, Lower




Bench

Target

* Pectoralis Major, Sternal

Synergists

* Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
* Deltoid, Anterior
* Triceps Brachii

Dynamic Stabilizers

* Biceps Brachii, Short Head

[MWheatley]

Dip

Target

* Pectoralis Major, Sternal

Synergists

* Deltoid, Anterior
* Triceps Brachii
* Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
* Pectoralis Minor
* Rhomboids
* Levator Scapulae
* Latissimus Dorsi
* Teres Major

Stabilizers

* Trapezius, Lower




Bench

Target

* Pectoralis Major, Sternal

Synergists

* Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
* Deltoid, Anterior
* Triceps Brachii

Dynamic Stabilizers

* Biceps Brachii, Short Head

I would say lats are used in bench as well but you are absolutely right. Way more muscles used in dips and it mimics a decline bench which most people can do more with than flat.

[GuyJin]

Many a time it's just a matter of practice. You get good at something by doing it. I knew a guy years back who'd start his chest workout with dips---and that's pretty much all he did. Bodyweight for twenty, then he'd work his way up to doing around 170 with plates--and he was hardly a large guy, maybe 5'8" and about 185 pounds...stocky and thick all over. Very impressive chest--and a very impressive dude in general. He wasn't into back squatting, either, but could do front squats with about 275 for reps and lunges with around 85 pounds in each hand for around ten reps each leg. I asked him about benching; he said he never got a lot out of it and preferred dips and incline presses.

This leads to another point. Many guys will simply "feel" an exercise better than others; if they can't feel it working, why do it? The guy I mentioned could feel it in his pecs all over but couldn't get a feel for benches--the most I ever saw him do was around 245 or so. He said they didn't do him any good, so he dropped them for the most part.

The last thing is body proportions, although that doesn't always explain it. Long-armed guys (sometimes) have trouble with benches, but d'bell benches or inclines or declines are okay; same deal with squats--long-legged guys can't do them well (or so they say) but can handle leg presses, lunges, and hacks with a fair amount of weight. No wimpiness is suggested here; they just get no feel for it and have trouble with balance.

Now, will doing dips HELP build a bigger bench? A lot of the powerlifters say so and often recommend doing dips as ancillary work after all the heavy bench stuff has been done. Again, many anecdotal reports "say" that works and it makes sense, but only if you can feel it working your chest. I never got a lot out of dips (either for tris or chest) and all they did was hurt my shoulder joints, so I dropped them. Practiced on the bench, got up to a bit over three hundred (and that was years back and I don't even bench nowadays) and at that time, good enough for me.

Just my two yen...

[spirit3530]

Many a time it's just a matter of practice. You get good at something by doing it. I knew a guy years back who'd start his chest workout with dips---and that's pretty much all he did. Bodyweight for twenty, then he'd work his way up to doing around 170 with plates--and he was hardly a large guy, maybe 5'8" and about 185 pounds...stocky and thick all over. Very impressive chest--and a very impressive dude in general. He wasn't into back squatting, either, but could do front squats with about 275 for reps and lunges with around 85 pounds in each hand for around ten reps each leg. I asked him about benching; he said he never got a lot out of it and preferred dips and incline presses.

This leads to another point. Many guys will simply "feel" an exercise better than others; if they can't feel it working, why do it? The guy I mentioned could feel it in his pecs all over but couldn't get a feel for benches--the most I ever saw him do was around 245 or so. He said they didn't do him any good, so he dropped them for the most part.

The last thing is body proportions, although that doesn't always explain it. Long-armed guys (sometimes) have trouble with benches, but d'bell benches or inclines or declines are okay; same deal with squats--long-legged guys can't do them well (or so they say) but can handle leg presses, lunges, and hacks with a fair amount of weight. No wimpiness is suggested here; they just get no feel for it and have trouble with balance.

Now, will doing dips HELP build a bigger bench? A lot of the powerlifters say so and often recommend doing dips as ancillary work after all the heavy bench stuff has been done. Again, many anecdotal reports "say" that works and it makes sense, but only if you can feel it working your chest. I never got a lot out of dips (either for tris or chest) and all they did was hurt my shoulder joints, so I dropped them. Practiced on the bench, got up to a bit over three hundred (and that was years back and I don't even bench nowadays) and at that time, good enough for me.

Just my two yen...

well said

[Insanity_SC]

I can weighted dip BW+75lbs for 10 reps. I can only bench like 180x5. heck, I can DB bench 90's for more reps.

lol, my bench is so weak. Squat 275x6 and rack pull 455x6 but my bench is the suk.

I think technique and practice play a large role in the disparities.

[mikevall]

Well I used to be able to dip a lot, but now I always get a sharp pain in my sternum. But I've always been fairly strong on the bench for my size too, repping 225 5-6 times. So that is kinda weird.

that exactly happened to me so i didnt do dips for a few months and now im 100% fine. I think its like anything if u have lower back pain just stop deadlifts and squats for a bit and time heals.

[sb4l]

i fall into this category, id love to know why as well. been working on bench for for a while its so slow

[Darkwatcher759]

Personally dipping leverages correlate reasonable well with that for benching, as I naturally dip and bench more easily than I can pullup or dead. There have been times where I have focused on dips and others bench, and that was the only factor that contributed to a discrepancy.

[MinusP]

That ^^^^^^

what he said

[W8isGR8]

Dip

Target

* Pectoralis Major, Sternal

Synergists

* Deltoid, Anterior
* Triceps Brachii
* Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
* Pectoralis Minor
* Rhomboids
* Levator Scapulae
* Latissimus Dorsi
* Teres Major

Stabilizers

* Trapezius, Lower




Bench

Target

* Pectoralis Major, Sternal

Synergists

* Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
* Deltoid, Anterior
* Triceps Brachii

Dynamic Stabilizers

* Biceps Brachii, Short Head

Those are probably some of the weakest muscles in the body, good job dave man. It must be the teres major that pushes it over the edge....


And that compares dips and bench, the only difference being there's no bench to stabalize the scapulae....so all those tiny extra muscles are for posture, not pushing the f*cking weight. Besides, the guy who said it used more muscles was comparing decline to flat bench.

What you posted is like saying standing military press uses more muscles than seated, well no sh*t, you have to stand.

[wolfbaden6]

You should be glad that you can dip more than you bench. I'll bet you're good at pullups too. It probably means healthier shoulders as opposed to those who go from 0 to bench without ever working their stabilizers first. You can work on your bench knowing that you are well prepared to handle the lift.

Good way to bullet proof the rotators and scapular muscles.

Hmm... That's interesting. I've never felt pain while doing a bench press or any kind of overhead press, so that might be why. I'm terrible at pullups though. Absolutely awful, actually.

[DieHollywoodDie]

because dips don't translate that well to benching because of angles and form.

/thread

[WillGoesBoing]

A lot of people don't dip properly at all. They would not be doing anywhere near what they say if they had perfect form. Sometimes same with bench.

Agreed.... I have yet to see one person do dips with full ROM. Everybody gets up on that thing and starts looking like they're spasming going down 2 inches and then going back up.

But.... I can hold 60lbs in between my feet and do full ROM for 8 reps though but my bench sucks. Reason being I use to be one of those guys who only work out my arms and shoulders and I didn't actually start bench pressing until just a few months ago.

[hellawaits77]

At my peak last year, I could dip w/ 100lbs strapped on for 4-5 reps, at a body weight of about 285. My best bench was 365 x 4-5. Seems to be around normal I guess.

I think some dudes are able to dip impressive weight for a couple reasons. Use momentum, not lowering themselves all the way, swinging their legs, etc. These same dudes usually can't bench big numbers.

[SquatTilYouDrop]

Those are probably some of the weakest muscles in the body, good job dave man. It must be the teres major that pushes it over the edge....


And that compares dips and bench, the only difference being there's no bench to stabalize the scapulae....so all those tiny extra muscles are for posture, not pushing the f*cking weight. Besides, the guy who said it used more muscles was comparing decline to flat bench.

What you posted is like saying standing military press uses more muscles than seated, well no sh*t, you have to stand.

You asked a question. It was answered. The fact is more muscles are used in some way during dips than bench. And those muscles help more than you think. Believe what you want. It doesn't change the facts.

[W8isGR8]

You asked a question. It was answered. The fact is more muscles are used in some way during dips than bench. And those muscles help more than you think. Believe what you want. It doesn't change the facts.

The pec minor depresses the shoulder girdle. The levator scapulae shrugs the shoulder. The rhomboids retract the shoulderblades. None of those muscles in any way shape or form help push the weight. Those are the facts.

The only reason dips/decline allow for more weight is due to ROM and leverage.

[derekk1]

^^^
you two just need to have some hate sex to clear the air

[Sir_Malak]

I will not tell the numbers but will say my dips in regards to numbers have been greater then my flat bb bench. The reason for me is simple: Technique. It is easier for me to go heavier with some adherence to form on dips then it is on flat bench. Example: On a 500lb bench we all know if you slip even 1/2 inch on the form it could lead to complete failure while on dips you can slip up a tad on your form and still pull it back together and continue.

My 2 cents.

[W8isGR8]

^^^
you two just need to have some hate sex to clear the air

It's like saying you can leg press more than you squat because you use more muscles gripping the handles and pushing your head against the seat.

[Austin109]

It's like saying you can leg press more than you squat because you use more muscles gripping the handles and pushing your head against the seat.

wait thats not how it works?

[SquatTilYouDrop]

The only reason dips/decline allow for more weight is due to ROM and leverage.

Oh geez

Dips and decline bench are not similar exercises. Don't know why you keep saying that. One requires the body to move dynamically with weight while the other remains static pushing weight. They are different animals. Like saying lat pulldown is the same as pullups.

It's more than just ROM and leverage. Other muscles are assisting with the push. You even failed to mention lats. But I'm not surprised. Lats are not just for pulling. In fact, all the little muscles you keep harping about have more than one function. You simplify things way too much. The body and it's muscular system work as a coordinated unit. Not separate entities disconnected.

Oh, I can post a pic of someone banging their head on a desk too, but why bother. Brother!

[amberlove]

^^^
you two just need to have some hate sex to clear the air

ya sounds good to me lol

[HankZuckler]

Oh geez

Dips and decline bench are not similar exercises. Don't know why you keep saying that. One requires the body to move dynamically with weight while the other remains static pushing weight. They are different animals. Like saying lat pulldown is the same as pullups.

It's more than just ROM and leverage. Other muscles are assisting with the push. You even failed to mention lats. But I'm not surprised. Lats are not just for pulling. In fact, all the little muscles you keep harping about have more than one function. You simplify things way too much. The body and it's muscular system work as a coordinated unit. Not separate entities disconnected.

Oh, I can post a pic of someone banging their head on a desk too, but why bother. Brother!

This ^^^

Lats can assist greatly with a pushing movement. I'm sure ive read about 10 bench press articles or similar things in which one of the tips is strengthening lats in order to assist off your chest.

[DieHollywoodDie]

Rly? please list all the extra muscles being used

i know you've been on this forum for a long time as well, and while I don't find the dip to actually transfer at all to the bench (notice any powerlifter doesn't use it as an assistance exercise) there are indeed far different mucles at play here. in the bench you are capable of being destabilized in four direction (towards your head, towards your feet, and to the left and to the right) meanwhile in a dip you can be displaced in a multitude of directions as there is a "3-dimensional element" at work. i would suggest you try repping with dumbells versus barbells. in some cases, dumbells increase ROM (such as full ROM db presses) from a barbell exercise. in the case of dumbells to the sternum and bb bench to the sternum, there is in fact much more stability involved. in fact when i do db bench frequently my ability to stabilize is a limiting factor in my ability to db bench moreso than bb bench.

furthermore, to add to the "tiny muscle" debate...here are examples of hip extensors in an article on glutes published by tnation today:

? adductor longus
? pectineus
? adductor brevis
? anterior fibers of adductor magnus
? gracilis
? adductor minimus
? posterior fibers of adductor magnus
? semitendinosis
? semimembranosis
? long head of biceps femoris
? gluteus maximus
? posterior fibers of gluteus medius
? posterior fibers of gluteus minimus
? piriformis
? obturator internus
? gemellus superior
? obturator externus
? gemellus inferior
? quadratus femoris
? sartorius

you probably can't name most of those, yet more of these are hit by a full squat than by a leg press, as the hips extend in multiple directions!