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  1. #1
    Registered User mrdee555's Avatar
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    Bad kidney function???

    I recently have been getting heart palpations and the doc done blood tests, when i got the results he said that he was conserned with my kidney function.

    I never told him about taken roids so he said to quit tabs/capsules im taking and he will take more blood in a couple of weeks.

    I currently take 1 animal flex(8tabs), 1 animal pak(11tabs), 6 kre alkalyn caps, 6 bcaa's and 1 tamoxifen tab.

    I also take 400mgs of EQ and 800mg of test per week

    One bottle of wine every other Sat nite.

    Do you think stopping the tabs/capules will help my kidney function or is it the gear affecting my kidney function??

    Im 27, 5ft11ins, 210lbs and approx 12% currently.

    Any help would be appreicated
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  2. #2
    Cardio Bunny tenaciousj's Avatar
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    Not sure myself but am interested in the replies. Best I can think of if you're not taking enough water a day.
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  3. #3
    Registered User mrdee555's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by platinumjason View Post
    Not sure myself but am interested in the replies. Best I can think of if you're not taking enough water a day.
    I would drink between 4-6 litres a day so wouldnt think it was that bro, cant get my head round what it would be, the doc also said that someone with large muscle mass can have kidney problems, i just dont see how stopping taking my supplements with help my kidney function.
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  4. #4
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    I would tell your doctor you're juicing. I don't know about patient confidentially laws where you're at but your health should be your #1 concern.
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  5. #5
    Registered User v4lu3s's Avatar
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    define "bad kidney function"

    i am assuming he is basing it off of blood test results, depending on what markers were high or low can help you figure out what is causing the problem.
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  6. #6
    Registered User mrdee555's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    define "bad kidney function"

    i am assuming he is basing it off of blood test results, depending on what markers were high or low can help you figure out what is causing the problem.
    Yes it was a blood test, im not sure bout what was high and what was low mate il ask him to do me a print the next time im in. ( 30t oct for second blood test with no sups on board and in a fasted state.)

    Ive heard people saying a high protein diet can affect kidneys. i would never have more than 1-5grams per pound of lean body weight per day.
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    Originally Posted by mustangcobra View Post
    I would tell your doctor you're juicing. I don't know about patient confidentially laws where you're at but your health should be your #1 concern.
    I am pretty sure most countries doctor-patient laws, however, I agree with you, you should be open about your roids usage with your doctor.
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  8. #8
    Veritas. Aequitas. neuron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrdee555 View Post
    Yes it was a blood test, im not sure bout what was high and what was low mate il ask him to do me a print the next time im in. ( 30t oct for second blood test with no sups on board and in a fasted state.)

    Ive heard people saying a high protein diet can affect kidneys. i would never have more than 1-5grams per pound of lean body weight per day.
    The roids, along with lifting weights, will elevate your creatinine levels, which is an indicator of your GFR. Tell him/her what you are taking (i.e. the roids, not the animal pak), and your lifestyle, to get a better assessment.
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  9. #9
    Veritas. Aequitas. neuron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrdee555 View Post
    Ive heard people saying a high protein diet can affect kidneys.
    Incorrect. Protein is not filtered nor excreted from the kidneys and does not tax them.
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  10. #10
    Registered User 12bbig's Avatar
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    You need to tell your doctor about your steroid use, creatine will also raise your creatinine level which doctors use as indicator of kidney function, you should ask him how high is yours and may also want to get a urine test to see if protein is present which would also indicate renal impairment.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Ben123123's Avatar
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    Huh. Im curious about this to. Apparently I had really bad renal (kidney) function. That of a 75 year old so that wasnt good. Although I havnt been juicing, ive been takinf anima flex and creatine. Im wondering if its these. My doc told me to stop all suplements including my bag of protien. So I mean that goes to say that he doesnt know about supplements.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrdee555
    Ive heard people saying a high protein diet can affect kidneys.

    Incorrect. Protein is not filtered nor excreted from the kidneys and does not tax them.
    Last edited by Ben123123; 10-19-2009 at 03:46 PM.
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  12. #12
    2011 NPC Eastern USA's XCriticalBenchX's Avatar
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    I would be interested in seeing which values he is going off of to determine your kidney function. I am assuming your BUN and Creatinine levels, maybe even a BUN to Creatinine ratio. Sometimes physicians go a little off the wall with a slight elevation in BUN and Creatinine wheras others do not. Something to keep in mind which they tend to forget is bodybuilders typically have slightly higher numbers. Now numbers significantly higher are a problem regardless.

    More than likely, he is going to want to do a GFR test to determine your clearnace. Kidney problems are typically shown by your output. Do you feel like you are urinating enough to compensate for the amount of water you put in?

    How is your blood pressure?
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  13. #13
    Registered User 12bbig's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ben123123 View Post
    Huh. Im curious about this to. Apparently I had really bad renal (kidney) function. That of a 75 year old so that wasnt good. Although I havnt been juicing, ive been takinf anima flex and creatine. Im wondering if its these. My doc told me to stop all suplements including my bag of protien. So I mean that goes to say that he doesnt know about supplements.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrdee555
    Ive heard people saying a high protein diet can affect kidneys.

    Incorrect. Protein is not filtered nor excreted from the kidneys and does not tax them.
    You said that you had really bad renal function , does that mean your function has improved and if so what did you change, just curious?
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  14. #14
    Registered User 12bbig's Avatar
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    The kidney is like a filter when it is damaged protein passes through it and shows up in your urine , a simple urine test should be your first step to asess your kidney health.
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    2011 NPC Eastern USA's XCriticalBenchX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ben123123 View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrdee555
    Ive heard people saying a high protein diet can affect kidneys.

    Incorrect. Protein is not filtered nor excreted from the kidneys and does not tax them.
    In the event that someone has impaired renal function from a known or unknown cause, high levels of protein in the blood can cause filtration problems in the kidney decreasing their ability to properly filtrate metabolic wastes thus resulting in decreased kidney function with protein spilling over in the urine which is easily detected in a urinalysis.

    When there is muscle wasting going on, which can occur in over training but more likely in traumatic muscle injuries, myoglobin is released from the muscle which causes the blood to thicken some, greatly interfering with the kidneys ability to filter out metabolic wastes leading to a decrease in kidney function. Elevations in levels of serum creatinine and BUN will initially be seen, as well as a dark brown urine.

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  16. #16
    Registered User 12bbig's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by XCriticalBenchX View Post
    In the event that someone has impaired renal function from a known or unknown cause, high levels of protein in the blood can cause filtration problems in the kidney decreasing their ability to properly filtrate metabolic wastes thus resulting in decreased kidney function with protein spilling over in the urine which is easily detected in a urinalysis.

    When there is muscle wasting going on, which can occur in over training but more likely in traumatic muscle injuries, myoglobin is released from the muscle which causes the blood to thicken some, greatly interfering with the kidneys ability to filter out metabolic wastes leading to a decrease in kidney function. Elevations in levels of serum creatinine and BUN will initially be seen, as well as a dark brown urine.

    Mike
    Agreed , should we develop any medical illness such as hypertension or diabetes as we age they can have profound consequence on kidney function add that to any previous damage and you will be on dialysis in short order, this is not meant to alarm anyone but we need to respect our health and not take it for granted.
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    Originally Posted by 12bbig View Post
    You said that you had really bad renal function , does that mean your function has improved and if so what did you change, just curious?
    Sorry bad wording. I still have bad renal function, and ive gone for so manny freekin blood and urine tests in the last 2-3 weeks its rediculous. Apparently Its getting better, but the thing that allerted him was my "death defyng" levels of potassium in my blood. So hopefully I dont die. Il keep my fingers crossed
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    Originally Posted by XCriticalBenchX View Post
    I would be interested in seeing which values he is going off of to determine your kidney function. I am assuming your BUN and Creatinine levels, maybe even a BUN to Creatinine ratio. Sometimes physicians go a little off the wall with a slight elevation in BUN and Creatinine wheras others do not. Something to keep in mind which they tend to forget is bodybuilders typically have slightly higher numbers. Now numbers significantly higher are a problem regardless.

    More than likely, he is going to want to do a GFR test to determine your clearnace. Kidney problems are typically shown by your output. Do you feel like you are urinating enough to compensate for the amount of water you put in?

    How is your blood pressure?
    Sory bout the late reply and thanks for your interest.

    Yes i do feel i urinate enough id say bout 8 times a day.

    Blood pressure is 136/69 there today ive been checking it every other day its rarely over 140/80.
    Last edited by mrdee555; 10-20-2009 at 03:26 AM.
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  19. #19
    Registered User mrdee555's Avatar
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    Went for my fasted blood/urine tests this morning so should have results on tues/wed, i also got a copy of my last tests:-

    Tests 10/08/2009
    sodium 139 mmol/L ( 135-145 U )
    potassium 4.7 mmol/L ( 3.5-5.1 U )
    chloride 99 mmol/L ( 98-108 U )
    urea 11.6 mmol/L ( 3-8 U) HIGH
    creatinine 129 umol/L ( 62 -106 U ) HIGH
    glomerular filtration 60 ml/min ( 60-150 U )

    Doc said muscle mass and overtraining can cause raised creatinine levels.

    Can anyone comment on results/ docs comments and are my test results to be expected taking creatine and training hard??
    Last edited by mrdee555; 10-30-2009 at 05:48 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Possibility A:
    Your doc found increased creatinine levels and concluded that your kidneys don't work. howoever, creatine products can artificially increase creatinine levelsand make it look like you had a kidney problem, while your kidney is perfectly fine.

    In order to check for this, you should perform clearance test, where you collect urine for 24 hours and get your blood levels checked in parallel.

    Along with that, check for microalbuminuria or other parameters that indicate protein loss.

    Other indicators of (advanced!!!) kidney dysfunction would be e.g. increased urea levels.YOur doc should also make an ultrasound of your kidneys.


    POSSIBILITY B:
    You really have kidney issues. In that case:

    1. stop to take ALL of that s*** you mentioned in your first post.

    2. reduce protein intake!!!

    3. increase water intake!!!

    4. pray that your kidneys recover and let it get checked regularly.






    Originally Posted by mrdee555 View Post
    I recently have been getting heart palpations and the doc done blood tests, when i got the results he said that he was conserned with my kidney function.

    I never told him about taken roids so he said to quit tabs/capsules im taking and he will take more blood in a couple of weeks.

    I currently take 1 animal flex(8tabs), 1 animal pak(11tabs), 6 kre alkalyn caps, 6 bcaa's and 1 tamoxifen tab.

    I also take 400mgs of EQ and 800mg of test per week

    One bottle of wine every other Sat nite.

    Do you think stopping the tabs/capules will help my kidney function or is it the gear affecting my kidney function??

    Im 27, 5ft11ins, 210lbs and approx 12% currently.

    Any help would be appreicated
    ThermoLife scientific consultant
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    Originally Posted by mrdee555 View Post
    Yes it was a blood test, im not sure bout what was high and what was low mate il ask him to do me a print the next time im in. ( 30t oct for second blood test with no sups on board and in a fasted state.)

    Ive heard people saying a high protein diet can affect kidneys. i would never have more than 1-5grams per pound of lean body weight per day.

    so, you did never have more than 5 gram of protein per pound of lean body weight?

    if these numbers come anywhere close to your real protein consumtion then thumbsrews are NOTHING compared to what you are doing to your kidneys.

    I only wait to hear some painkillers have been on the list as well....
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    Originally Posted by DR_P View Post
    Possibility A:
    Your doc found increased creatinine levels and concluded that your kidneys don't work. howoever, creatine products can artificially increase creatinine levelsand make it look like you had a kidney problem, while your kidney is perfectly fine.

    In order to check for this, you should perform clearance test, where you collect urine for 24 hours and get your blood levels checked in parallel.

    Along with that, check for microalbuminuria or other parameters that indicate protein loss.

    Other indicators of (advanced!!!) kidney dysfunction would be e.g. increased urea levels.YOur doc should also make an ultrasound of your kidneys.


    POSSIBILITY B:
    You really have kidney issues. In that case:

    1. stop to take ALL of that s*** you mentioned in your first post.

    2. reduce protein intake!!!

    3. increase water intake!!!

    4. pray that your kidneys recover and let it get checked regularly.
    Cheers for the reply very good advice, i got bloods and urine taken this morning i was in afasted state and all supplements have stopped for last 2 weeks except protein shakes and roids to complete course. So hopefully il find out more with next test.
    http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/
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    Originally Posted by DR_P View Post
    so, you did never have more than 5 gram of protein per pound of lean body weight?

    if these numbers come anywhere close to your real protein consumtion then thumbsrews are NOTHING compared to what you are doing to your kidneys.

    I only wait to hear some painkillers have been on the list as well....
    Always 1.5g per lbs when bulking and 1g when cutting this works well for me.

    No no pain killers dont think ive ever had one in my life.
    http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/
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    Cool

    Hey new to this site and wanted to add to this topic. But im glad i found this thread cause i have the same thing, so called bad kidney function due to high creatine levels found. my suggestion is really to stop taking creatine in all. once i stopped my doc found alot less creatine levels but was still kinda high but the big problem is my body dosent hold potassium at all. Now i take potassium pills ive stopped all creatine intake ive upped my water intake and only take multi-vitamins, what should i intake for protein should i just stick to 1grm per pound or should i drop it.. and how much times a day is good. thanks id really appreciate ur reply
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    Originally Posted by ramrod702 View Post
    Hey new to this site and wanted to add to this topic. But im glad i found this thread cause i have the same thing, so called bad kidney function due to high creatine levels found. my suggestion is really to stop taking creatine in all. once i stopped my doc found alot less creatine levels but was still kinda high but the big problem is my body dosent hold potassium at all. Now i take potassium pills ive stopped all creatine intake ive upped my water intake and only take multi-vitamins, what should i intake for protein should i just stick to 1grm per pound or should i drop it.. and how much times a day is good. thanks id really appreciate ur reply
    I dont think 1g per pound could be doing you any harm m8 also if your talking about meals if you want to add or keep muscle you need to eat every 3hrs about 5-6 times a day.

    I should have my fasted blood/urine results any day now with no suups taken last 2 weeks so it will be interesting to see if anything has changed.
    http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/
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    Got fasted blood test results back doc said some improvment but im going in to see him next wed for a chat.

    Only supplement ive been taking for the 2 weeks upto this test was Animial flex.


    Tests 30/10/2009
    sodium 143 mmol/L ( 135-145 U )
    potassium 4.8 mmol/L ( 3.5-5.1 U )
    chloride 100 mmol/L ( 98-108 U )
    urea 8.5 mmol/L ( 3-8 U) HIGH
    creatinine 131 umol/L ( 62 -106 U ) HIGH
    glomerular filtration 59 ml/min ( 60-150 U ) LOW

    Urea in well down but creatinine is up, strange since ive stopped using creatine. Also glomerular filtration is on the low side.

    Can anyone comment??
    http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/
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    Originally Posted by mrdee555 View Post
    Got fasted blood test results back doc said some improvment but im going in to see him next wed for a chat.

    Only supplement ive been taking for the 2 weeks upto this test was Animial flex.


    Tests 30/10/2009
    sodium 143 mmol/L ( 135-145 U )
    potassium 4.8 mmol/L ( 3.5-5.1 U )
    chloride 100 mmol/L ( 98-108 U )
    urea 8.5 mmol/L ( 3-8 U) HIGH
    creatinine 131 umol/L ( 62 -106 U ) HIGH
    glomerular filtration 59 ml/min ( 60-150 U ) LOW

    Urea in well down but creatinine is up, strange since ive stopped using creatine. Also glomerular filtration is on the low side.

    Can anyone comment??
    Urea and creatinine go up when you supplement with creatine and protein. Creatinine also goes up linearly with muscle mass. The GFR is only 1 point off, so I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have a trend.
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    Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    Urea and creatinine go up when you supplement with creatine and protein. Creatinine also goes up linearly with muscle mass. The GFR is only 1 point off, so I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have a trend.
    So would you not be to bothered about the results? Would a 5ft11ins 210lbs man at about 12% normally have raised creatinine levels say 20-30% raised due to muscle mass? Would you continue to use creatine or stay of it?


    Thanks for your interest mate.
    http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/
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    Originally Posted by mrdee555 View Post
    So would you not be to bothered about the results? Would a 5ft11ins 210lbs man at about 12% normally have raised creatinine levels say 20-30% raised due to muscle mass? Would you continue to use creatine or stay of it?


    Thanks for your interest mate.
    Creatine is not dangerous and does not stress the kidneys so feel free to stay on it. Generally, creatinine would be a marker of impaired GFR from an acute standpoint, but if you've already had an actual GRF measured (via the 24 hour test), then it no longer becomes an indicator of kidney function. If your doctor starts finding proteins in your urine (via electrophoresis), then I would start to become alarmed.
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    Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    Creatine is not dangerous and does not stress the kidneys so feel free to stay on it. Generally, creatinine would be a marker of impaired GFR from an acute standpoint, but if you've already had an actual GRF measured (via the 24 hour test), then it no longer becomes an indicator of kidney function. If your doctor starts finding proteins in your urine (via electrophoresis), then I would start to become alarmed.
    Cheers for the advice neuron im gona print what you said and bring with me to docs on wednesday il keep you posted with his response.
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