A stupid question

[Inthegrass]

I know one of the things that holds me back from doing so well, well the big thing really, is that I really have a hard time eating enough. I'm tyring to eat several times a day but then it just seems like my whole day revolves around eating. I make meals ahead of time and then break them into smaller portions, but then again, I run into the first problem of, I just don't have a big appetite.
I thought I'd try and break it down by the numbers more. For example with protein I know I should be consuming about 400 grams a day. So my dumb question to put it in perspective for me is, How much protein would a half chicken breast have?
I eat things like peanut butter, alomonds, cottage cheese, yogurt, milk, eggs, ham, salmon and other fish. I'm just pretty sure I'm not getting enough because my appetite doesn't want me to.

Sorry for the stupid question.

[chodan9]

and ounce of chicken breast has 8.6 grams of protein

it depends on the size of the breast.
if you have a scale you can use it or just average it from the package weight.


btw
www.fitday.com is your friend

[bobbyt321]

If fitday doesn't suit you - check out livestrong.com. I like it because it has brands - not just foods. Not all chicken is created equally-lol. Not knocking fitday - just another tip.

[Ctrainer]

Originally Posted by bobbyt321

If fitday doesn't suit you - check out livestrong.com. I like it because it has brands - not just foods. Not all chicken is created equally-lol. Not knocking fitday - just another tip.

I use nutrihand.com..I like it better than fitday...


and remember...there are no stupid questions...just stupid people! Present company excluded!!!

[paolo59]

Not a stupid question in the least! The nutritional component of this weightlifting thing is the most difficult. I have the same problem. I find it very difficult to eat enough good clean calories throughout the course of the day. If I drink coffee in the morning upon awaking, it cuts my appetite. I find that I need to eat whether I'm hungry or not. Chicken or fish is good. I try to eat more meals during the day, but to be truthful, it's often difficult to do with my schedule as a teacher.

[ironwill2008]

Wow, 400 grams of protein for a 200 pound guy is a lot of protein! It will be very difficult for someone to eat that much protein without resorting to a large number of shakes.

[JOHN GARGANI]

right: who said 400 gms of protein??

that is preposterous....half of that would probably more than suffice you.....

[IronCharles]

2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight is not excessive, especially if you are a natural ectomorph, like me. I try to get around 350 grams per day. I'd have to eat over 12 chicken breasts a day to fulfill that quota, so I'm grateful for the convenience of protein shakes. One little 3 scooper provides me 100 grams of good protein. I had a hard time putting on quality mass, untill I raised my protein intake.

[Inthegrass]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

right: who said 400 gms of protein??

that is preposterous....half of that would probably more than suffice you.....

I was going by the rule of 2 grams per pound per day, but I've never been much of a numbers kind of guy.
I know I eat very well and very clean. I also know that I don't get eonough for what I likely need to grow. Even sometimes I can feel run down going into a workout and sore from earlier workouts. It makes me feel like I have to cut back on the intensity and I hate doing that so I'm hoping if I can just get more protein into me, it will help all around.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

Jeff

[BergMuscle]

I also struggle with the nutrition aspect of my training. I know that I do not eat enough nor at the right times to make the gains that I could be making. It's tough to manage, especially during the school year. I've used this part of the bb.com website to help me with some of my nutrition "number crunching."

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/nutrient.htm

[chodan9]

Originally Posted by Ctrainer

I use nutrihand.com..I like it better than fitday...

that site looks pretty cool.

I already have a ton of custom foods in fitday though
I dont want to redo them (yes lazy)

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by Inthegrass

I was going by the rule of 2 grams per pound per day, but I've never been much of a numbers kind of guy.
I know I eat very well and very clean. I also know that I don't get eonough for what I likely need to grow. Even sometimes I can feel run down going into a workout and sore from earlier workouts. It makes me feel like I have to cut back on the intensity and I hate doing that so I'm hoping if I can just get more protein into me, it will help all around.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

Jeff

As a quick suggestion, try cutting your protein intake by 100 grams(down to 300/day, which should be plenty), and upping your carb intake by the same amount. This alone should help with your energy level.

[BOstreet]

I would have to agree with the shake crowd. For me they are quick, easy to digest and spread my calories out better. Just easier for me to pack around as well, couple scoops in a plastic bag and bottle of water no need for fridge or microwave. Not saying they are the answer to everything but may be just worth a try.

[BuckSpin]

FWIW, its more likely that "rule" is it should 2gs/lb of LBM, which is a HOOGE difference from BW. But very few know their true LBM, so they go by BW.

You'd be well served aiming for 1.5g/lb of BW at the most. That would be 300g, of which your body would have 240g post digestion.

The problem is that most seasoned BBers have a lot of freakin' LBM, so they eat a lot of protein & others read what they eat, scale it down, etc.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

As a quick suggestion, try cutting your protein intake by 100 grams(down to 300/day, which should be plenty), and upping your carb intake by the same amount. This alone should help with your energy level.

This^^^^^^^

[JOHN GARGANI]

the primary aim of the human body is the acquisition of sources of fairly quick energy....

protein, although needed for physical maintenance, is not quite as necessary RELATIVELY, in terms of amounts.

with that in mind, bodybuilders, being of the more is better philosophy, inundate ourselves with amounts of protein, of which can never be fully utilized by the body, at least, not in the manner that we would like....

that is why, the TECHNICAL requirement for protein per day, for this OP, is most likely only a measly 70 or so gms........

that being said, if it is doubled, to about 150, and STILL can't get one into a positive nitrogen balance, something is wrong with the metabolism.....

having 400 gms of protein means 1500 calories of your daily intake is devoted to this macro only.....that doesn't leave much room for a specialized diet for sources of energy.

as such, your body will then have to go into a protein burning metabolism to get it's proper energy needs......although in an ATKINS type of keto diet, that is actually "desirable", it is highly unhealthy, long term, and really, undesirable for any bodybuilder: if your body moves into a protein burning metabolism, just where do you think it is going to get what it needs for energy if and when you HAVEN'T gorged yourself with protein??

that's right, from your own body.....


but of course, we live in an era of excess, and we, as bodybuilders, wallow in it all the time between our diet and our training: so , the old ONE gram of protein per pound of bodyweight becomes 1.5, and now, it suddenly becomes 2.0........


I would be strongly willing to bet that if you could have DETAILED AND ACCURATE analysis of protein utilization by your body, there would be little difference between 200 and 400 gms of protein a day: the difference, would be that the 400 guy would both/and/or be storing more excess bodyfat and burning more protein for energy....

[Gery_Sowet]

Al i can really say is... EAT! keeep it clean, but when it comes to consuming eat till u feel your sick at dinner, cause it seems maybe you have a shrunken stomach, so by eating ALOT your stomach will expand, so u can fit more food

I only eat 4 meals a day cause of school, but after each one i am so full i cant move, i mean i get almost 200g of protein a day, 6000+ calories, and 550-650g of carbs. Just to put in perspective ... i'm only 16...

[Klayfish]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

the primary aim of the human body is the acquisition of sources of fairly quick energy....

protein, although needed for physical maintenance, is not quite as necessary RELATIVELY, in terms of amounts.

with that in mind, bodybuilders, being of the more is better philosophy, inundate ourselves with amounts of protein, of which can never be fully utilized by the body, at least, not in the manner that we would like....

that is why, the TECHNICAL requirement for protein per day, for this OP, is most likely only a measly 70 or so gms........

that being said, if it is doubled, to about 150, and STILL can't get one into a positive nitrogen balance, something is wrong with the metabolism.....

having 400 gms of protein means 1500 calories of your daily intake is devoted to this macro only.....that doesn't leave much room for a specialized diet for sources of energy.

as such, your body will then have to go into a protein burning metabolism to get it's proper energy needs......although in an ATKINS type of keto diet, that is actually "desirable", it is highly unhealthy, long term, and really, undesirable for any bodybuilder: if your body moves into a protein burning metabolism, just where do you think it is going to get what it needs for energy if and when you HAVEN'T gorged yourself with protein??

that's right, from your own body.....


but of course, we live in an era of excess, and we, as bodybuilders, wallow in it all the time between our diet and our training: so , the old ONE gram of protein per pound of bodyweight becomes 1.5, and now, it suddenly becomes 2.0........


I would be strongly willing to bet that if you could have DETAILED AND ACCURATE analysis of protein utilization by your body, there would be little difference between 200 and 400 gms of protein a day: the difference, would be that the 400 guy would both/and/or be storing more excess bodyfat and burning more protein for energy....

John,
How much protein per day do you eat? What about carbs? If a person ate 1g/lb of protein, the rest of the calories naturally would have to be carbs or fat. Wouldn't that be too much carbs/fat? For instance, I'm 156lbs. If I ate 156g of protein (I currently do about 280-290), I'd probably have to eat 300g of carbs to hit my calorie goals. Isn't that too much carb?

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by Klayfish

John,
How much protein per day do you eat? What about carbs? If a person ate 1g/lb of protein, the rest of the calories naturally would have to be carbs or fat. Wouldn't that be too much carbs/fat? For instance, I'm 156lbs. If I ate 156g of protein (I currently do about 280-290), I'd probably have to eat 300g of carbs to hit my calorie goals. Isn't that too much carb?

What is your calorie goal? And FWIW you are eating as much protein as I am & I'm outweigh you by 50%.

[stayfit2008]

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

As a quick suggestion, try cutting your protein intake by 100 grams(down to 300/day, which should be plenty), and upping your carb intake by the same amount. This alone should help with your energy level.

^^^^^^ Agree 110% with this!!!!

even 300 is a bit much. Something I learned my last prep, which was 2 weeks ago,..was I have been consuming way too much protein! once I decreased the amount of protein and increased the carbs, my muscles filled out, skin got tighter and was really losing fat and water. Protein and the amounts you take in can cause an imbalance of water. I have to do a bit more investigation on this to help support what I am learning from my last prep coach,..but the message here is no real need for excessive amounts of protein.

[Klayfish]

Originally Posted by BuckSpin

What is your calorie goal? And FWIW you are eating as much protein as I am & I'm outweigh you by 50%.

My calorie goal is 2850 per day. I figured it's a lot of protein to eat. I shoot for a 40p/30c/30f ratio, which is roughly 100g fat/200g carb/280g protein (give or take a few...). If I decrease the protein, do I increase just the carbs? And if so, using the same carb sources I do now...raw oats, brown rice, peas (I hate brocolli), whole wheat bread sometimes, etc...?

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by Klayfish

My calorie goal is 2850 per day. I figured it's a lot of protein to eat. I shoot for a 40p/30c/30f ratio, which is roughly 100g fat/200g carb/280g protein (give or take a few...). If I decrease the protein, do I increase just the carbs?

Yup. That is an easy one in that each gram of each = 4 cals. Its a straight swap. Plus you could also trade approx 1g fat for 2g of either protein or carbs, or 1g of each.

Why not try a 40/40/20 for a while?

[Stevelegh]

Originally Posted by Inthegrass

I know one of the things that holds me back from doing so well, well the big thing really, is that I really have a hard time eating enough. I'm tyring to eat several times a day but then it just seems like my whole day revolves around eating. I make meals ahead of time and then break them into smaller portions, but then again, I run into the first problem of, I just don't have a big appetite.
I thought I'd try and break it down by the numbers more. For example with protein I know I should be consuming about 400 grams a day. So my dumb question to put it in perspective for me is, How much protein would a half chicken breast have?
I eat things like peanut butter, alomonds, cottage cheese, yogurt, milk, eggs, ham, salmon and other fish. I'm just pretty sure I'm not getting enough because my appetite doesn't want me to.

Sorry for the stupid question.

This may be interesting:

http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objecti...t-fasting.html

Alan Aragon suggests that the main advantage to higher meal frequency is that it discourages irregular eating habits rather than the 'slow burn' theory:

Effects on Health & Thermogenesis



Research indicates that a haphazard meal frequency, not necessarily a lower frequency, negatively impacts thermogenesis, blood lipids, and insulin sensitivity [1,2]. Contrary to popular belief, a high frequency has no thermodynamic advantage over a low frequency under calorie-controlled conditions (as opposed to ad libitium or free-living conditions) using 24-hr indirect calorimetry [3,4]. So much for the magic of stoking the metabolic furnace with an extreme grazing pattern. It bears mentioning that lower 24-hour insulin levels as well as lower fasting and total LDL-cholesterol levels have been observed with higher meal frequencies [5,6]. However, in discovering this, studies have used unrealistic protocols for the higher frequency treatments, comparing 3 meals to 9 or 17 meals per day.

Maybe three larger meals a day will take all the pain of preparing lots for food for separate grazing sessions...........

[JOHN GARGANI]

If I ate 156g of protein (I currently do about 280-290), I'd probably have to eat 300g of carbs to hit my calorie goals. Isn't that too much carb?

NO! it wouldn't.....some of the most heathy things you can eat are basically carbs: fruits, vegetables, salads, whole grain breads, baked potatoes.....brown rice....etc......

The body primarily uses carbs for fuel....we regulate them, mainly, because too many times we are looking to lose weight, or in the case of contest prep, get cut up.....

but under normal conditions, you will make much better gains and be stronger if your carb count is higher than many make it......

I normally have between 150-200 gms of protein a day, and really try to not make it more than that.....

When "dieting", I will limit carbs to an equal 200 or so.....

however, when just maintaining, I will let the carbs go up to almost 300......but not junk carbs, that is the thing.

you can get a couple of hundred carbs from one bannana split, right? all of the scoops of ice cream and gooey syrups, whipped cream, etc and so on.......

so, carbs have been demonized and villainized, which is silly, simply because we are often on specialized diets to reduce weight or fat......

but as I said, they are the preferred source of energy for the body, and you will make your greatest gains when you loosen the reins on that macro, instead of flooding your body with triple the amount of protein that it could possibly handle and force your body to convert protein to energy , which is wasteful......


look at this quote from the thread by STAYFIT:

Originally Posted by Chris the wise

Something I learned my last prep, which was 2 weeks ago,..was I have been consuming way too much protein! once I decreased the amount of protein and increased the carbs, my muscles filled out, skin got tighter and was really losing fat and water

oh, by the way, HE WON!! lol.......

[Fifty+]

A comment regarding total calories. Regardless if you're targeting 100, 200 or 500 grams of protein within your nutrition plan, you do not start with your target. You should work up to the total cals and nutrition ratios you choose to use over time. If you're using those calories your body is responding and you should find it a lot easier to continue increasing the totals....slowly. Even eating takes practice...

[theKurp]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

I would be strongly willing to bet that if you could have DETAILED AND ACCURATE analysis of protein utilization by your body, there would be little difference between 200 and 400 gms of protein a day: the difference, would be that the 400 guy would both/and/or be storing more excess bodyfat and burning more protein for energy....

I'm going to agree somewhat in principle and go a step further by suggesting that when science allows for more accuracy in nutrient utilization, bodybuilders will be far more concerned with the timing of the nutrients relative to exercise rather than the total amounts consumed per day.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Originally Posted by theKurp

I'm going to agree somewhat in principle and go a step further by suggesting that when science allows for more accuracy in nutrient utilization, bodybuilders will be far more concerned with the timing of the nutrients relative to exercise rather than the total amounts consumed per day.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.....

also: the field of supplementation should concentrate on protein utilization.....

F@#$ing with hormone levels is always asking for trouble.....you don't get something for nothing, without consequences......

A natural bodybuilder is eating protein around the clock and STILL not always getting the response he wants....he is healthy, and he is lifting and his test levels are most likely completely normal.....

how normal is he if he floods his body with extra testosterone??

the problem is UTILIZATION: and this involves several key things:

1. digestion and assimilation......it starts here

2. proper circulatory system.....why cardio IS important....getting it there where it belongs

3. and finally: UPTAKE INTO THE CELLS......


Number 3 is strongly related to receptor sites on the cell membranes: increasing and/or facilitating THIS PART of the process without dangerously compromising your endocrine system is where the future of bodybuilding should be......

if number 3 is more effective then you won't have to ingest untold amounts of protein, which DOES put strain on the liver and kidneys, don't doubt it for a minute.

[Klayfish]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

NO! it wouldn't.....some of the most heathy things you can eat are basically carbs: fruits, vegetables, salads, whole grain breads, baked potatoes.....brown rice....etc......

The body primarily uses carbs for fuel....we regulate them, mainly, because too many times we are looking to lose weight, or in the case of contest prep, get cut up.....

but under normal conditions, you will make much better gains and be stronger if your carb count is higher than many make it......

I normally have between 150-200 gms of protein a day, and really try to not make it more than that.....

When "dieting", I will limit carbs to an equal 200 or so.....

however, when just maintaining, I will let the carbs go up to almost 300......but not junk carbs, that is the thing.

you can get a couple of hundred carbs from one bannana split, right? all of the scoops of ice cream and gooey syrups, whipped cream, etc and so on.......

so, carbs have been demonized and villainized, which is silly, simply because we are often on specialized diets to reduce weight or fat......

but as I said, they are the preferred source of energy for the body, and you will make your greatest gains when you loosen the reins on that macro, instead of flooding your body with triple the amount of protein that it could possibly handle and force your body to convert protein to energy , which is wasteful......


look at this quote from the thread by STAYFIT:




oh, by the way, HE WON!! lol.......

John,
Very interesting. Do you use fruit and baked potato much as a source of carbs? I've read many threads where people say to keep fruit and white potato intake to a very minimum. Most people seem to stick to brown rice, oats, whole wheat, green veggies, sweet potato as carb sources.

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by Klayfish

Do you use fruit and baked potato much as a source of carbs? I've read many threads where people say to keep fruit and white potato intake to a very minimum. Most people seem to stick to brown rice, oats, whole wheat, green veggies, sweet potato as carb sources.

Go here:

www.nutritiondata.com

and start researching

Not a very big difference between white & sweet potatoes as far as nutritional info

And EAT FRUIT!!!! No one ever got obese eating fruit!!!!

[Klayfish]

I probably didn't chose the best wording. I've just read a lot of threads where people say to eat fruit sparingly, as it has a lot of sugars. You're right, I've never seen anyone show up on The Biggest Loser for eating fruit, but I'm never sure how appropriate it is (along with other carb sources) for a bodybuilders diet. I'll do some reading on your link.