just WHICH grams of protein do you count??

[JOHN GARGANI]

there was another thread, and I simply couldn't find it again, where in the course of replies one of our notable came on and said something that I believe bears more scrutiny on here.

In effect, he said NOT to count anything but grams of "COMPLETE" proteins, ala, meat, eggs, etc......

meaning: if you have 35 grams of grilled chicken on 2 slice of health bread that contain , say, 8 grms of "protein", do not say you took in 43 grams total......

This, in a very basic physiological perspective, is entirely WRONG!

First of all: there is no "compartmentization" of proteins by the body: meaning: just because you ate 40 grams of steak, doesn't mean , all of that is earmarked only for muscle or whatever.....

with the human body, ALL protein is broken down to it's basic amino acids in order to be assimilated.....at that point, there is a POOL, so to speak, of amino acids available to the body....this POOL is then used by the body , accordingly, and assemblage of whatever is necessary according to the priortization of the body.....

meaning: if blood cells are needed, that takes preference, as does any vital maintenance function , such as immune cells, etc, and whatever, before muscle protein is formed.

as such, the body puts together what it can, with what it has: some, it can do on it's own, but some, ( essential aminos ) have to be in their formation before being utilized.

Nevertheless, the "pool" exists, and it's OVERALL content is what is going to determine just what the body can or will do at any given moment......

with that in mind, ALL PROTEIN INGESTED could possibly play a role in achieving what we want.....including "incomplete" proteins......

the assumption here, of course, is that we are NOT just eating incomplete moiety, but rather, a mix, and in the case of bodybuilders, that mix is always decidely going to contain more complete proteins than the average consumer......

The world's biggest animals live on plant protein only.....our bodies are fully capable of handling and utilizing these sources of protein ALONG WITH the others.....

What one must always keep in mind in these discussions, that from the point of end result desired, the maintenance functions of the human body are just as important to overall progress and growth as just the specialized laying down of muscle tissue....

Keep in mind always, that for every ounce of additional muscle, you must have ennervation and you must have circulation, which means new cappilaries and that "reddish looking liquid" ( at least the way it looks outside the body ) is filled with all sorts of goodies that the body must produce and replace on a regular basis before it can give us what WE want...lol......

[dbx]

Calm down, John, it's too early to get all worked up over something so silly .

[supy]

Originally Posted by dbx

Calm down, John, it's too early to get all worked up over something so silly .

LOL..i count everything

[hochspeyer]

Or, you could find a site that breaks down the protein into its constituents:

Tryptophan 15.1 mg
Threonine 57.2 mg
Isoleucine 63.2 mg
Leucine 87.3 mg
Lysine 87.3 mg
Methionine 18.1 mg
Cystine 12.0 mg
Phenylalanine 57.2 mg
Tyrosine 33.1 mg
Valine 66.2 mg
Arginine 132 mg
Histidine 30.1 mg
Alanine 72.2 mg
Aspartic acid 123 mg
Glutamic acid 590 mg
Glycine 72.2 mg
Proline 45.1 mg
Serine 60.2 mg
Hydroxyproline ~

This is for a whole, unpeeled cucumber, btw. BLAST!! We need some hydroxyproline- cukes apparently don't have any!

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

with that in mind, ALL PROTEIN INGESTED could possibly play a role in achieving what we want.....

I think a more interesting topic is "net protein". Its no secret that protein is the most thermogenic of the macros as far as digestion. Having just finished Chris Aceto's books, it was driven home to keep in mind the thermogenic aspect of each macro group:

Fats: of 100 cals of fats, 97 are accessible post-digestion
Carbs: of 100 cals of carbs, 90 are accessible post-digestion
Protein: of 100 cals of protein, 80 are accessible post-digestion

This acctually provides a great & common sense answer to the "How much protein per...." question. If you weigh 200lbs & ingest 300g of protein, your body's "net" gain post-digestion is 240 grams to work with as John indicated - in that "pool". I know Supe is always pushing a 40g dose as a minimum, which would make sense in that at his LBM (200+/-) he is netting 32g per. That x 6 meals = 192g/day for his "pool" - almost exactly the daily minimum per standard BB dogma.

Now when you read that those hooge pros like Cutler, Greene, Martinez, etc take in just insane amounts of protein, remember that a 300lb off-season BBer would need to take in almost 400gms/day to just net 320, or pretty close to a 1g/lb of BW.

Actually, Aceto pushes for the intake to be quantified by LBM instead of BW, but *gasp* that would mean taking in even less protein for most.

[Most Muscular]

I count all protein sources but also realize that if I did not make up most of my diet with complete proteins some of it would never be utilized properly. Vegaterians have a hard time creating muscle fiber because they may not consume the correct types of incomplete proteins together.

If you eat only incomplete proteins this protein can NOT be converted into protein unless your meal contains the proper ratio of essential amino acids to form a "complete" protein. Many people are not aware of this. That is why it is so important to carefully eat selected incomplete proteins together to make sure that together they will form a "complete" protein balance of essential amino acids.

If one of these essential amino acids are missing the body cannot producd them itself, like it can with some of the others. So in essence, your protein intake would be nil. What you just ate could and would not be utilized for protein synthesis. Talk about a waste of eating!!!

This is why I try to consume mostly complete proteins... it's just more efficient, and that is what I like to be!

nuff said...

[2nd_chance]

Originally Posted by supy

LOL..i count everything

Ditto

[gbg]

Never been big on counting every little thing I consume seems a little extreme to me I guesstimate.
I know I get more than enough protein sometimes to much according to my blood results meh, guess that's why I'm not a BB.

[mbishoff]

Originally Posted by gbg

Never been big on counting every little thing I consume seems a little extreme to me I guesstimate.
I know I get more than enough protein sometimes to much according to my blood results meh, guess that's why I'm not a BB.

I count only meats, dairy and protein powders.

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by gbg

Never been big on counting every little thing I consume seems a little extreme to me I guesstimate.

I have just recently gotten a LOT more focused/serious on the nutrition side as far as EXACTLY how much of what, when, why, etc and have been totally stunned at how these changes have made a huge & very noticable impact on my body composition, energy, metabolism, recovery, rest, etc. It should not be happening this quick, but it is. Even Mrs. B commented on what she sees & notices in just 2 weeks.

As for all those lil' cals, etc that the vast majority of people don't count, I always like to look at it this way:

Imagine a BB with 6 plates on it. Each plate represents a meal for someone who does the 6 meals/day thing. Each end has 3 plates per, so everything is in balance. Each "meal" is about the same. However, on one end of that bar there are a whole bunch of 2.5 lb plates, some more 5lbs, even a few 10lb plates, plus a couple of collars for good measure.

Those are the lil' cals/macros that you don't count. Now ask yourself:

1) Knowing they are there, would you train with that bar like that every day?
2) If so, would you just ignore all those lil' weights & only count the 6 plates towards your work?
3) Would ignoring all those, over time, create an imbalance?

Just like 5s & 10s adding to a big lift can, over time, become 25s & 45s as you progessively overload each session, so too do those lil' cals add up. 25-50 cals/day doesn't sound like a lot until you keep in mind that, over a year, 10 cals/day - over a pound of calories you are either short or heavy on. 50 cals/day = over 5lbs of cals a year. If you are off by 100 cals/day, there is almost 10.5 pounds of cals/year.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by BuckSpin

I have just recently gotten a LOT more focused/serious on the nutrition side as far as EXACTLY how much of what, when, why, etc and have been totally stunned at how these changes have made a huge & very noticable impact on my body composition, energy, metabolism, recovery, rest, etc. It should not be happening this quick, but it is. Even Mrs. B commented on what she sees & notices in just 2 weeks.

As for all those lil' cals, etc that the vast majority of people don't count, I always like to look at it this way:

Imagine a BB with 6 plates on it. Each plate represents a meal for someone who does the 6 meals/day thing. Each end has 3 plates per, so everything is in balance. Each "meal" is about the same. However, on one end of that bar there are a whole bunch of 2.5 lb plates, some more 5lbs, even a few 10lb plates, plus a couple of collars for good measure.

Those are the lil' cals/macros that you don't count. Now ask yourself:

1) Knowing they are there, would you train with that bar like that every day?
2) If so, would you just ignore all those lil' weights & only count the 6 plates towards your work?
3) Would ignoring all those, over time, create an imbalance?

Just like 5s & 10s adding to a big lift can, over time, become 25s & 45s as you progessively overload each session, so too do those lil' cals add up. 25-50 cals/day doesn't sound like a lot until you keep in mind that, over a year, 10 cals/day - over a pound of calories you are either short or heavy on. 50 cals/day = over 5lbs of cals a year. If you are off by 100 cals/day, there is almost 10.5 pounds of cals/year.

Good post but I eat for performance, not as concerned with numbers or how many cals a day I take in.
My ultimate goal is to perform the best I can as an athlete of course I want to physically look good but that's second to overall performance output.

[IronCharles]

It puts the proteinz in the body, or it gets the hose again!

[chodan9]

I count all proteins but the vast majority I get are complete (like most folks here)

[rpaul11]

Originally Posted by gbg

Good post but I eat for performance, not as concerned with numbers or how many cals a day I take in.
My ultimate goal is to perform the best I can as an athlete of course I want to physically look good but that's second to overall performance output.

yes...and we all know our caloric intake and macros have nothing to do with performance


wait...wut

[gbg]

Originally Posted by rpaul11

yes...and we all know our caloric intake and macros have nothing to do with performance


wait...wut

Take a walk rup.

[rpaul11]

Originally Posted by gbg

Take a walk rup.

ok...whatever....am I not allowed to disagree with you? I for the most part track everything...I notice when I get off my plan and just "guestimate" than my performance/strength suffers greatly....IMHO to say that one doesn't need to worry about macros and calories for the most part because they are concerned about performance only...is well...a load of crap...again...just my humble opinion

[Iron Barbarian]

I put down around 450 to 500 grams a day and only count meat and powders. As far as carbs I usually only eat Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes, Whole Wheat Pasta, and fruit. I stay away from all processed foods. Any residual protein from the carb sources are not even worth counting when you consume that much a day at least for me.

[2nd_chance]

Originally Posted by Iron Barbarian

I put down around 450 to 500 grams a day and only count meat and powders. As far as carbs I usually only eat Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes, Whole Wheat Pasta, and fruit. I stay away from all processed foods. Any residual protein from the carb sources are not even worth counting when you consume that much a day at least for me.

Dude, that's some serious protein! I thought my 350-400 was a lot LOL.

[Iron Barbarian]

LOL - Believe me it is a pain in the ass trying to choke down that much meat and protein drinks in a day. I eat tons of meat every day. I pack quite a few meals on work days and just eat everything cold out of the fridge. Probably took out a couple of pretty good sized farms worth of animals already. The sucky thing is I just got pegged for jury duty from Dec. 15th to Apr. 23rd. Already trying to figure out how that will work with the diet. I have to sneak some food into court in my pockets.

Originally Posted by 2nd_chance

Dude, that's some serious protein! I thought my 350-400 was a lot LOL.

[Do_Somethin]

Originally Posted by gbg

Good post but I eat for performance, not as concerned with numbers or how many cals a day I take in.
My ultimate goal is to perform the best I can as an athlete of course I want to physically look good but that's second to overall performance output.

Please explain how, if you only eat for performance, the numbers or calories (or even their sources) are of no concern?

[gbg]

Originally Posted by Do_Somethin

Please explain how, if you only eat for performance, the numbers or calories (or even their sources) are of no concern?

What I meant was my main goal is performance now not BB which is very diet orientated if I ate like I used to and did what I do know my performance would be lacking to say the least.
This is most likely because I'm new at it and my body has never been conditioned for this.
And I never said numbers or sources where of no concern just not the priority but that may have a lot to do with the fact that I'm on the CKD my diet is pretty much all protein and fat.

[SR800]

Opens door, stick head in and yells "Why would "you people" over 35 even eat protein when you can't grow muscle?", ducks, and quickly closes door while running back to the misc section.

[dbx]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

there was another thread,

John, I can't reply, your box is full

[JOHN GARGANI]

okay, buddy, I cleaned it out.....

[RonGoon]

this thread has me wondering if i could benefit from amino acid supps.

my daily diet consists mainly of eggs, milk, chicken, beef, cheese, almonds, oats, potatos, brown rice, whole grain bread, flour tortillas, pinto beans, brocolli(broccoli?), bananas, pineapple, and of course a whey protein powder that claims to have in each serving over 7 grams of BCAAs (9 essential and 9 non-essential).

i do not eat much fruit and vegetables which is one reason i take a multi-vitamin.

thoughts without knowing exact quantities?