So glad people like Michael Moore exist in the US

[Spetsnazos]

Strong ad-hominem attacks in this thread. I thought the right was supposed to be logical, I guess its exactly the same as the left - emotional, whiny and ideological.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...e-new-liberals

careful with logical fallacies, the neo-cons are going to get scared if you use too many big words against them

[ZenBowman]

careful with logical fallacies, the neo-cons are going to get scared if you use too many big words against them

Oh yeah I forgot, I'll get labeled an elitist.

Good thread comrade.

[Stizzel]

Guess that depends on which class you are born into, in regards to the work/money ratio. I still can't believe the idiots in this thread. As has been pointed out before, he is not decrying Capitalism as some horrible thing that destroys lives. He says the Capitalism currently in the US is doing so, as evidenced by Wall Streets control of the Legislative and Executive branches of the government.

Of course if you're born into wealth thats different. That doesn't mean it isn't possible to lose it all making stupid decisions.

Thats why the wealthy buy up politicians. Its easier to keep the shirt on your back when you have federal thugs forcing working stiffs to pay you irregardless of your bad decisions.

I still don't see what Moore is crying about here. Because he wasn't born into wealth, he thinks people should hand over millions of dollars to make his movie just because he wants it? I'd like millions of dollars to be my own boss too. Are you going to contribute to the pay stizzel fund?

[r0gue6]

Strong ad-hominem attacks in this thread. I thought the right was supposed to be logical, I guess its exactly the same as the left - emotional, whiny and ideological.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...e-new-liberals

Is being self righteous an ad-hominem?

[ZenBowman]

Is being self righteous an ad-hominem?

Not at all.

[r0gue6]

Of course if you're born into wealth thats different. That doesn't mean it isn't possible to lose it all making stupid decisions.

Thats why the wealthy buy up politicians. Its easier to keep the shirt on your back when you have federal thugs forcing working stiffs to pay you irregardless of your bad decisions.

I still don't see what Moore is crying about here. Because he wasn't born into wealth, he thinks people should hand over millions of dollars to make his movie just because he wants it? I'd like millions of dollars to be my own boss too. Are you going to contribute to the pay stizzel fund?

Did you watch the film?

[Stizzel]

Did you watch the film?

Nope. Why? I'm not talking about his film, I'm talking about his statements about how hard it was to get funding to make it.

[r0gue6]

Nope. Why? I'm not talking about his film, I'm talking about his statements about how hard it was to get funding to make it.

Yah, of course it would be hard, who the hell would want to fund a film criticizing the system they use to rape the country?

[dan213]

michael moore is a douch. if he hates america so much why doesn't he live somewhere else. countries like ours allow him to make the movies he does. you think countries like japan or russia would allow his kind of ****?
why didn't michael moore work something out so everyone could see this movie for free? he's making money off of the same **** he bitches about in his movies.

[Stizzel]

Yah, of course it would be hard, who the hell would want to fund a film criticizing the system they use to rape the country?

lol

So how did he convince them to back him? They don't care about his message, they care about profit. Moore isn't pushing anything corporate America is concerned with.

Notice the corporate media love fest for him despite this being one of his lowest grossing movies ever?

At the end of the day Michael Moore is just a clown. He's like a WWF wrestler getting all of his rednecks pumped up to back his side against his opponent. At the end of the day the rest of us are rolling our eyes at the idiots that think its all real while the wrestlers are all actually friends off-stage.

[Vitalshok44]

[Thinman]

Ranting against Capitalism... Because a Rich Capitalist told you to.

Brilliant!


$5.2 Million gross so far... I wonder how much of his profits he'll hand over to the poor.

Good point. I sure Michael Moore laughs all the way to the bank. While, I do find his movies entertaining, I really don't see them as documentaries in the true sense of the word.

[Bushmaster]

Yah, of course it would be hard, who the hell would want to fund a film criticizing the system they use to rape the country?

Exactly right. Hard, but not impossible.

But that also applies to funding for everything else too. Homes, small business, you name it. You have to have good credit, stable job history, and a down payment (usually). If it was easy everybody would be doing it, right?

Oh wait, doing it the easy way isn't Capitalism though, is it?

[saloman]

Strong ad-hominem attacks in this thread. I thought the right was supposed to be logical, I guess its exactly the same as the left - emotional, whiny and ideological.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...e-new-liberals

I love that video. Jon Stewart is awesome.

[Stizzel]

Exactly right. Hard, but not impossible.

But that also applies to funding for everything else too. Homes, small business, you name it. You have to have good credit, stable job history, and a down payment (usually). If it was easy everybody would be doing it, right?

Oh wait, doing it the easy way isn't Capitalism though, is it?

If Moore was driven by a desire to spread a message rather than by profit, he could have gone to private investors or taken donations from his fan base to go low budget so he could release his work without a copyright.

Or he could have used his own funds to do it. What is two hundred grand to a guy with tens of millions of dollars and a burning desire to spread a message?

[Fist-Of-Freedom]

Just saw his new movie on capitalism.

He is a great American and one of the few intelligent people around to see the facade behind the capitalist greed filled system.

[frankenstein]

I haven't seen the movie....but is it safe to assume he somehow convinces people we are now living under a Capitalist economy and that's why everything is bad? Rather than tell truth about this current system being nothing more than a rigged game in favor of those at the top that adheres to almost none of the principles of Capitalism?

From interviews I've seen with Moore and the tidbits of the movie I've seen, I believe you are correct in that assumption. Gotta love how all of the big examples of 'greed' are made possible almost entirely by and in cooperation with the federal govt, but let's go ahead and leave that part out. I respected Moore until 'Sicko.' After that, I realized how propagandist he is.

[Bushmaster]

If Moore was driven by a desire to spread a message rather than by profit, he could have gone to private investors or taken donations from his fan base to go low budget so he could release his work without a copyright.

Or he could have used his own funds to do it. What is two hundred grand to a guy with tens of millions of dollars and a burning desire to spread a message?

Absolutely.

And I simply can not believe we're even arguing about this. It's a known fact that Michael Moore's movies have made him rich. Yet he claims that capatilism hasn't done anything for him (his exact words) - and his nuthuggers defend him by saying "He's not talking about capitalism, he's talking about corporatism!"

[r0gue6]

Absolutely.

And I simply can not believe we're even arguing about this. It's a known fact that Michael Moore's movies have made him rich. Yet he claims that capatilism hasn't done anything for him (his exact words) - and his nuthuggers defend him by saying "He's not talking about capitalism, he's talking about corporatism!"

I am simply stunned people cannot understand simple things.

Capitalism in 2009 = Corporate control of the Government. How you can blindly support a system which favors the needs of giant corporations over the needs of the population is just simply mind boggling and you actually demonize Moore for pointing it out in a movie.

End corporate person-hood, End corporations owning other corporations, don't allow any corporation to give money to politicians.

That's all the **** I want done, and Capitalism is still here and much more healthy. Well, not all I want done....but it would be a good start.

[Karcist]

if he hates america so much why doesn't he live somewhere else.

I wonder the same thing about Spetz. (referring to the first sentence)

[r0gue6]

I wonder the same thing about Spetz. (referring to the first sentence)

How sophomoric...I guess I could say if you love it so much why don't you marry it?

If "Person A" complains about something in the USA, and the first response in your brain is to think "Omg, if they hate it, just leave", you have failed at basic critical thinking; Hell, you've failed at thinking altogether.

[Bushmaster]

I am simply stunned people cannot understand simple things.

Capitalism in 2009 = Corporate control of the Government. How you can blindly support a system which favors the needs of giant corporations over the needs of the population is just simply mind boggling and you actually demonize Moore for pointing it out in a movie.

Michael Moore's own words.

CNSNews.com then asked Moore: ?Critics would say he?s [Moore] been very successful under a capitalist system. How would you justify making a movie where you paint capitalism as evil??

Moore said: ?Well, capitalism did nothing for me, starting with my first film.?

?You know, I had to pretty much beg, borrow and steal,? he said. ?The system is not set up to help somebody from the working class make a movie like this and get the truth out there.?

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54833

See that? He didn't say sht about corporate control of the government. Here, I'll repeat it for you, "Capatilism did nothing for me!" Other than make him filthy fuking rich, that is. THAT is the crux of the matter - anything else beyond that is pure spin.

don't allow any corporation to give money to politicians.

Better be careful brah. Obama damn sure took him some of that evil corporate money too you know.

[Stizzel]

I am simply stunned people cannot understand simple things.

Capitalism in 2009 = Corporate control of the Government. How you can blindly support a system which favors the needs of giant corporations over the needs of the population is just simply mind boggling and you actually demonize Moore for pointing it out in a movie.

End corporate person-hood, End corporations owning other corporations, don't allow any corporation to give money to politicians.

That's all the **** I want done, and Capitalism is still here and much more healthy. Well, not all I want done....but it would be a good start.

So why didn't he call it 'corporatism - a love affair'? I would venture to guess its because his financiers wouldn't appreciate him drawing attention to the fact that they're a bunch of fascists.

Capitalism and corporatism are NOT the same thing. It would make more sense to say corporatism is the same as socialism, but I know how lefties rant and rave at that.

[frankenstein]

I am simply stunned people cannot understand simple things.

Capitalism in 2009 = Corporate control of the Government. How you can blindly support a system which favors the needs of giant corporations over the needs of the population is just simply mind boggling and you actually demonize Moore for pointing it out in a movie.

End corporate person-hood, End corporations owning other corporations, don't allow any corporation to give money to politicians.

That's all the **** I want done, and Capitalism is still here and much more healthy. Well, not all I want done....but it would be a good start.

Basically, corporatism is the enemy. No argument there. Corporations and the banks running the govt. That is THE problem. My issue is the wrong labeling Moore does. To be truthful, the movie should be called, Fascism: An American Love Story. Calling the murder deserving bailouts capitalism is like filming a movie about the Yankees and then calling it football.

[codhead]

I am simply stunned people cannot understand simple things.

Capitalism in 2009 = Corporate control of the Government. How you can blindly support a system which favors the needs of giant corporations over the needs of the population is just simply mind boggling and you actually demonize Moore for pointing it out in a movie.

End corporate person-hood, End corporations owning other corporations, don't allow any corporation to give money to politicians.

That's all the **** I want done, and Capitalism is still here and much more healthy. Well, not all I want done....but it would be a good start.

Is the movie more directed at the corporations or the politicians?
Just wondering. Directing most of the ire at the corporations is like getting mad at the guy who your girlfriend was cheating on. He's just doing what guys do if given the chance.

[r0gue6]

So why didn't he call it 'corporatism - a love affair'? I would venture to guess its because his financiers wouldn't appreciate him drawing attention to the fact that they're a bunch of fascists.

Capitalism and corporatism are NOT the same thing. It would make more sense to say corporatism is the same as socialism, but I know how lefties rant and rave at that.

He uses the terms the media uses to describe our economy. I guess that's too easy, this could turn into a thread on semantics though, maybe that's what we should start arguing?

In reality we can say that Capitalism has been hijacked by corporate interest.

Michael Moore's own words.



See that? He didn't say sht about corporate control of the government. Here, I'll repeat it for you, "Capatilism did nothing for me!" Other than make him filthy fuking rich, that is. THAT is the crux of the matter - anything else beyond that is pure spin.

Capitalism did not make him "filthy, ****ing, rich", his hard work did. Even today in China there are filmmakers that become wealthy, is it because Communism made them "filthy,****ing rich"?

Better be careful brah. Obama damn sure took him some of that evil corporate money too you know.

Every politician is a corporate shill, what's the point of your statement?

[Spetsnazos]

I wonder the same thing about Spetz. (referring to the first sentence)

Aren't neo cons like yourself constantly telling us to judge and question our leaders and system? Isn't political liberty fundamental to democracy?

I'm just trying to be a real American

[Stizzel]

He uses the terms the media uses to describe our economy. I guess that's too easy, this could turn into a thread on semantics though, maybe that's what we should start arguing?

In reality we can say that Capitalism has been hijacked by corporate interest.

Just looking at the cover its obvious that he's infering that it is capitalism that is ripping everyone off.

You can call it semantics if you want, I will call it a massive 5+ million dollar grossing strawman.

From the plot summary on IMDB.com:

On the 20-year anniversary of his groundbreaking masterpiece Roger & Me, Michael Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story comes home to the issue he's been examining throughout his career: the disastrous impact of corporate dominance on the everyday lives of Americans (and by default, the rest of the world). But this time the culprit is much bigger than General Motors, and the crime scene far wider than Flint, Michigan. From Middle America, to the halls of power in Washington, to the global financial epicenter in Manhattan, Michael Moore will once again take film goers into uncharted territory.

Hell yeah! Expose those wallstreet shills. Hopefully he gets into the way they buy up and control our government to extend their influence.

With both humor and outrage, Michael Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story explores a taboo question: What is the price that America pays for its love of capitalism? Years ago, that love seemed so innocent. Today, however, the American dream is looking more like a nightmare as families pay the price with their jobs, their homes and their savings. Moore takes us into the homes of ordinary people whose lives have been turned upside down; and he goes looking for explanations in Washington, DC and elsewhere. What he finds are the all-too-familiar symptoms of a love affair gone astray: lies, abuse, betrayal...and 14,000 jobs being lost every day. Capitalism: A Love Story is both a culmination of Moore's previous works and a look into what a more hopeful future could look like. It is Michael Moore's ultimate quest to answer the question he's posed throughout his illustrious filmmaking career: Who are we and why do we behave the way that we do?

Oh god. It started out so good, but I can already tell when I watch this, I'm going to see Moore pointing to all of the horrible things corporatism has done through big government and infer, if not out right state, 'well, thats capitalism for ya'.

[Bushmaster]

Capitalism did not make him "filthy, ****ing, rich", his hard work did. Even today in China there are filmmakers that become wealthy, is it because Communism made them "filthy,****ing rich"?

His hard work in a capitalist system, to be exact.

And post some of these rich Chinese filmmakers - bet if they exist at all they were paid by the Chinese government. So either back it up or you're full of sht.

[SirChubalots]

In before multiple negs. Spetz you crack me up dude (seriously).

LOL this, spet keeps it real. I used to love his ramblings last year during the "deadliest warrior' Spetsnaz episdoes