Can the Workout Program Forum be Saved? (srs)

[Dave76]

To the serious and/or experienced guys (you know who you are):

Can the WP Forum be saved or is it only for teh lulz now?

There has been a serious decline in the WP forum over the past few years. Just as I think it has hit an all time low, it gets even lower. Little did I know when I started posting here several years ago that those would be the golden days of the WP forum.

Many of you know that I tried to run a serious thread for a couple of years. With help from you guys, we were mostly successful at keeping it serious and on topic. In the end, it became another inane thread that wasn't worth the time. That was just one thread and it was a difficult task and nearly a full time job.

A couple of years ago, RipStone was our mod and took an active role in this forum. He actively closed inane threads and closed threads with titles like "Quick Question". After all, any "quick" question could be easily answered by skimming a sticky. RipStone was pretty good about making people read the stickies.

Can we do anything to bring up the quality of this forum? Should we try? Does anyone care? Any ideas?

Discuss. Serious discussion only, please. If a mod comes by, I would appreciate any input you may have.

[brudman]

In all seriousness 99% of the threads posted here are posted by beginners. Maybe there should be a beginner sub-section. Then again, most beginners don't know they are beginners. Who knows. I mostly do it for teh lulz.

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by brudman

In all seriousness 99% of the threads posted here are posted by beginners. Maybe there should be a beginner sub-section. Then again, most beginners don't know they are beginners. Who knows. I mostly do it for teh lulz.

Yes, I know. The more advanced guys do all their discussions in the journal section. That's where the good discussions are.

Beginners need help the most. I'm not particularly knowledgeable or advanced myself but I do have a little age and common sense. For most beginners, that all it takes, a little common sense.

I don't mind helping at all as long as someone takes just a smidgen of their time to ask a serious and well thought out question. Many of these threads are serious, there is just no thought put into the question.

[brudman]

Originally Posted by Dave76

there is just no thought put into the question.

Fact. To be honest I have learned a lot in this section, but there are many who come here who think they know everything. Usually over time you find those guys learn the ropes too though.

[ZidaneValor]

I just found this section. Please don't hate me for my noobness.

[CaptainGorgeous]

Originally Posted by Dave76

To the serious and/or experienced guys (you know who you are):

Can the WP Forum be saved or is it only for teh lulz now?

There has been a serious decline in the WP forum over the past few years. Just as I think it has hit an all time low, it gets even lower. Little did I know when I started posting here several years ago that those would be the golden days of the WP forum.

Many of you know that I tried to run a serious thread for a couple of years. With help from you guys, we were mostly successful at keeping it serious and on topic. In the end, it became another inane thread that wasn't worth the time. That was just one thread and it was a difficult task and nearly a full time job.

A couple of years ago, RipStone was our mod and took an active role in this forum. He actively closed inane threads and closed threads with titles like "Quick Question". After all, any "quick" question could be easily answered by skimming a sticky. RipStone was pretty good about making people read the stickies.

Can we do anything to bring up the quality of this forum? Should we try? Does anyone care? Any ideas?

Discuss. Serious discussion only, please. If a mod comes by, I would appreciate any input you may have.

Look's like you answered your own question: we need active mods here.

[azzuk23]

agree with the active mods idea - i really dont understand why people cant read stickies

dont give up hope though - some people actually believe that doing a 6-day split routine is the best way to get gains. its the fault of certain publications imo

[ZidaneValor]

Originally Posted by azzuk23

agree with the active mods idea - i really dont understand why people cant read stickies

dont give up hope though - some people actually believe that doing a 6-day split routine is the best way to get gains. its the fault of certain publications imo

I believed my five day split was great until I started Madcows 6 weeks ago.

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by ZidaneValor

I just found this section. Please don't hate me for my noobness.

No one hates noobs. Even Arnold was a noob at one time.

This forum is, always has been, and always will be full of novices. You are the majority. There are experienced guys who can help you. Unfortunately, you can't get a lot of help from these guys because most of them have abandoned this forum.

I'm trying to find out if there's any interest in reviving this forum. The forum can be productive but only if the novices cooperate (either voluntarily or involuntarily) by asking decent, well thought out questions. Granted, you have to know a little bit of something to frame a decent question. That's why stickies and search buttons were invented. Too bad no one uses those tools.

[GuyJin]

Dave,

With all due respect, if a noob can't be bothered to read the Stickies as you (and I, and many others) have suggested, then maybe this section should be closed. I'm all for helping noobs who are willing to listen, something I wasn't into doing almost thirty years ago (at the outset of my "lifting career"); the biggest problem, as I see it, is that the average noob doesn't want to listen OR read. Hell, we can offer the best advice around, but really, how many new guys are going to listen or actually follow that advice?

Half the newbies who say they're reading the "Beginner's" programmes then come out and ask: "Can I change this? What if I do this? Why can't I do five days a week?" and so on; makes me wonder if they've actually READ the stuff. I mean, either do the programme as it's written and see it through, or don't do it. Plain and simple. Granted, we eventually have to go our own way and find what works for us but newbs (in general) don't have that luxury. More experienced guys do so they can (and perhaps should) experiment more.

Now before anyone thinks I'm blowing sunshine and rainbows up my own butt and proclaiming myself the "uber der uber trainer"--the answer is no. I'm by no means the biggest or strongest guy on this forum, but I--like you--have had enough experience to know what will work and what won't, and what can possibly do the job. That is why I post; aside from the occasional "LULZ" threads, I really don't mind helping out the noobs--we were all that way at one time or another.

But, in short, if the average new dude doesn't bother taking the time to read the Stickies and ask a well thought out question, then what is the use of it all? I would hope that the Mods take a more active role in at least clearing out the useless threads, but they can't really stop anyone from posting. All I would ask is that any newb who does want help and is serious about training should READ the Stickies first, think about their questions, and then post up.

Just my two yen on all this...

[BigRick87]

I think that a lot of stickies would help. More of an index I guess

begining training sticky
advanced training sticky
cardio sticky

5x5 sticky
rippletoe sticky
DC sticky
HIT sticky
FST-7 Sticky
P/RR/S sticky
crossfit sticky
ETC ETC........
workout program for mma sticky
workout program for physical fitness test sticky

Repetitions and tempo TUT sticky

HOw does my workout look sticky
I need help with my program sticky

[rock201]

Originally Posted by Dave76

To the serious and/or experienced guys (you know who you are):

I wouldn't consider myself either compared to some here, but I have to say that the stickies have honestly answered all my questions about strength training. That information, along with the stickies in the Exercise section, is all I need.

[Wildtim]

Seems to me what most of the questions are on this whole board are complete noobs asking whats what. If you read the stickies in any section the odds are most questions asked would be answered. Most of the rest are covered by the articles on the main site and anything else is actually handled by Google.

That said many of these kids need a push to get them going in the right direction, and we can give them that. I do wish we had a more active mod who would take charge and shut someone down when they prove they don't have the sense God gave a goat.

[grim83]

i have an idea lets make a bodygroup, invitation only, and leave all the noob idiots to fend for themselves fwahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahah. anyway may save us the trouble, and we wont have to listen to all the if i train 2x a day 6x a week will i be huge while only eating 500cals a day threads

[ThiZzNation925]

Originally Posted by BigRick87

I think that a lot of stickies would help. More of an index I guess

begining training sticky
advanced training sticky
cardio sticky

5x5 sticky
rippletoe sticky
DC sticky
HIT sticky
FST-7 Sticky
P/RR/S sticky
crossfit sticky
ETC ETC........
workout program for mma sticky
workout program for physical fitness test sticky

Repetitions and tempo TUT sticky

HOw does my workout look sticky
I need help with my program sticky

I agree with this. Taking the most popular questions into a sticky title would provide an easier direction through the eyes of the noob, and for us (a simple ctrl + c and ctrl + v). Of course the stickys should be open discussion, because nobody is going to read a long sticky and fully understand it (tension span of most noobs = <0.)

That, and more active mods = win imo.

[OldSchoolLifter]

It won't help.

There are just way too many teenagers on here who just want to get "hyuge and ripped" quickly. They're following xyz program and in many cases making size and strength gains, but they're not "hyuge and ripped". In other words, expectations are completely out of line with reality. Their posts are just a desperate attempt to find some secret that will make them "hyuge and ripped" in a few weeks. There is no such secret. But that doesn't stop them from posting looking for it.

[W8isGR8]

This forum has always sucked. Five years ago it was "Just do squats and deadlifts and get stronger" Then it became "just do Westside"(which involved doing squats and deadlifts and getting stronger). That eventually turned into "just do Ripptoes"(which involved doing squats and deadlifts and getting stronger).

[BigRick87]

Originally Posted by W8isGR8

This forum has always sucked. Five years ago it was "Just do squats and deadlifts and get stronger" Then it became "just do Westside"(which involved doing squats and deadlifts and getting stronger). That eventually turned into "just do Ripptoes"(which involved doing squats and deadlifts and getting stronger).

I guess squats and deadlifts are the key reguardless. We found the secret to getting huge and ripped. LOL

I agree that there will still be people asking how to get " huge and ripped" And what secret is going to get them huge and ripped, but if we could knock out some of these posts it could have a profound effect.

[W8isGR8]

Originally Posted by BigRick87

I guess squats and deadlifts are the key reguardless. We found the secret to getting huge and ripped. LOL

I agree that there will still be people asking how to get " huge and ripped" And what secret is going to get them huge and ripped, but if we could knock out some of these posts it could have a profound effect.

I reccomend a bodybuilding routine. It involves doing squats and deadlifts and getting stronger, while also doing a lot of iso's and wearing a tank-top while doing it.

[ThiZzNation925]

Originally Posted by W8isGR8

I reccomend a bodybuilding routine. It involves doing squats and deadlifts and getting stronger, while also doing a lot of iso's and wearing a tank-top while doing it.

but i don't wanna do squats or deadlifts because i have bad knees.

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by Dave76

Can the WP Forum be saved or is it only for teh lulz now?

This very same topic was brought up in a thread in the "exercises" forum, a week or two ago. It ran on to about 5 pages. Here were a few of the main points:

* Beginners don't want that tag. They'd rather do anything than be known as a "beginner."

* None of them bother with the stickies. The excellent "Why no one is critiquing your routine" sticky slowed down the inane posts for about one day, and then they all re-appeared.

*Every kid thinks he's a special case, and the commonly-recommended "programs" are too mundane for him.

* Many posters in this forum post with a sense of entitlement, like someone is supposed to write them out a custom-made routine, and nutrition plan. They can't be bothered to do any research on their own.

*Most posters think they already know everything, and will argue with a more experienced poster who's attempting to guide them.



I don't see any way to change any of the above. I post in this forum a lot less than I used to. It just grinds you down after a while.

[ZidaneValor]

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

Most posters think they already know everything, and will argue with a more experienced poster who's attempting to guide them.

I know I'm just a noob, but this is my personal favorite. When beginner Person A asks advice from experienced Person B, Person B gives advice, and then Person A tells him that he's wrong. If Person A is so smart, why is he asking for advice?

[BigRick87]

Originally Posted by ZidaneValor

I know I'm just a noob, but this is my personal favorite. When beginner Person A asks advice from experienced Person B, Person B gives advice, and then Person A tells him that he's wrong. If Person A is so smart, why is he asking for advice?

LOL, I like this post, I get this going on all the time at the gym.

[grim83]

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

This very same topic was brought up in a thread in the "exercises" forum, a week or two ago. It ran on to about 5 pages. Here were a few of the main points:

* Beginners don't want that tag. They'd rather do anything than be known as a "beginner."

* None of them bother with the stickies. The excellent "Why no one is critiquing your routine" sticky slowed down the inane posts for about one day, and then they all re-appeared.

*Every kid thinks he's a special case, and the commonly-recommended "programs" are too mundane for him.

* Many posters in this forum post with a sense of entitlement, like someone is supposed to write them out a custom-made routine, and nutrition plan. They can't be bothered to do any research on their own.

*Most posters think they already know everything, and will argue with a more experienced poster who's attempting to guide them.



I don't see any way to change any of the above. I post in this forum a lot less than I used to. It just grinds you down after a while.

and this is the truth, especially the wearing down part. i recommend a "simple quiz" before allowing someone to get the ability to post, not some super hard one that only scientists could answer, but some common sense ****, that way we can cut out some of the idiots or at least they'd be required to research something before bothering everyone

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by grim83

and this is the truth, especially the wearing down part...

I had the Rippetoe thread closed for several reasons but "wearing down" was the main one. I am now very, very selective about the questions I'll answer. I use the following criteria to decide whether to hit the back button or the reply button:

1. The guy has to at least give the impression he's done a smidgen of research.
2. I have to get the impression that he really wants to accomplish something.
3. The guy better not want a long answer to a "quick" question. That's why we have stickies.
4. The question has to be written in something resembling real English. (no grammar Nazi)
5. The last thread that asked the same question needs to be off the front page.

If I do decide to reply to an inane question, you'll get an equally inane response from me. I won't try to figure out what it is you're trying to ask.

[grim83]

Originally Posted by Dave76

I had the Rippetoe thread closed for several reasons but "wearing down" was the main one. I am now very, very selective about the questions I'll answer. I use the following criteria to decide whether to hit the back button or the reply button:

1. The guy has to at least give the impression he's done a smidgen of research.
2. I have to get the impression that he really wants to accomplish something.
3. The guy better not want a long answer to a "quick" question. That's why we have stickies.
4. The question has to be written in something resembling real English. (no grammar Nazi)
5. The last thread that asked the same question needs to be off the front page.

If I do decide to reply to an inane question, you'll get an equally inane response from me. I won't try to figure out what it is you're trying to ask.

i like that criteria, its going into my sig, but everything you said is true unfourtunatly

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by Dave76

I had the Rippetoe thread closed for several reasons but "wearing down" was the main one. I am now very, very selective about the questions I'll answer. I use the following criteria to decide whether to hit the back button or the reply button:

1. The guy has to at least give the impression he's done a smidgen of research.
2. I have to get the impression that he really wants to accomplish something.
3. The guy better not want a long answer to a "quick" question. That's why we have stickies.
4. The question has to be written in something resembling real English. (no grammar Nazi)
5. The last thread that asked the same question needs to be off the front page.

If I do decide to reply to an inane question, you'll get an equally inane response from me. I won't try to figure out what it is you're trying to ask.

^^^^This is pretty much what I go by. I see an average of one, may be two good posts in this forum in a week's time. The rest of them can all easily, easily be answered simply by reading the stickies and/or hitting the search.

[grim83]

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

^^^^This is pretty much what I go by. I see an average of one, may be two good posts in this forum in a week's time. The rest of them can all easily, easily be answered simply by reading the stickies and/or hitting the search.

and yet all our bitching will do little if any help

[GuyJin]

What Dave76 and Ironwill said. It just becomes too much of a hassle to respond to each and every question after awhile, and for every young dude who DOES ask an intelligent question and HAS done some research on the basics, you'll find a double-dozen others who have not. That's also the reason I don't post as much here as I used to.

Again, this is not said with bitterness or the attitude of a "super-trainer"--it's said with the knowledge of someone who has been in the trenches a long time--not as long as Dave, Ironwill, Defiant, or some others--and someone who's just found it too damn draining to answer the questions that could easily be answered by just READING THE DAMN STICKIES AND FIGURING IT OUT FOR YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess these days the young dudes don't want that. Or maybe I'm just asking too much; I don't know. But I do know that these days the guys don't want to put in the work, don't want to push themselves in the gym as hard as they could, and certainly don't bother doing the research--even the basic stuff--that they could--and SHOULD--be doing. How much is it going to cost you to go online, read the Stickies for an hour, and learn something?

I hope that Dave's original post and Ironwill's words will strike a chord in some of the younger crew, but I fear that it won't, and this thread will fade, like so many other good ones, into the cyberspace sunset...

[grim83]

Originally Posted by GuyJin

What Dave76 and Ironwill said. It just becomes too much of a hassle to respond to each and every question after awhile, and for every young dude who DOES ask an intelligent question and HAS done some research on the basics, you'll find a double-dozen others who have not. That's also the reason I don't post as much here as I used to.

Again, this is not said with bitterness or the attitude of a "super-trainer"--it's said with the knowledge of someone who has been in the trenches a long time--not as long as Dave, Ironwill, Defiant, or some others--and someone who's just found it too damn draining to answer the questions that could easily be answered by just READING THE DAMN STICKIES AND FIGURING IT OUT FOR YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess these days the young dudes don't want that. Or maybe I'm just asking too much; I don't know. But I do know that these days the guys don't want to put in the work, don't want to push themselves in the gym as hard as they could, and certainly don't bother doing the research--even the basic stuff--that they could--and SHOULD--be doing. How much is it going to cost you to go online, read the Stickies for an hour, and learn something?

I hope that Dave's original post and Ironwill's words will strike a chord in some of the younger crew, but I fear that it won't, and this thread will fade, like so many other good ones, into the cyberspace sunset...

how sentimental, and i know compared to most of you guys im part of this younger crowd lifting for yrs and only 17, but even though i found this site within my first 6 months i refused to post until the beginning of this year, why, well because im the hard head who likes to teach himself and test it out before yelling jihad. anyways, im preparing to see this thread become the note in a bottle if you will.

p.s. i sent this to iron619, hes been very understanding on all of my problems and maybe he can help