How can anyone NOT be a libertarian?

[An hero]

I'm seriously curious. I don't get how anyone could WANT the government to control you more and more and more.


in b4 grup

[Melkor]

I'm seriously curious. I don't get how anyone could WANT the government to control you more and more and more.


in b4 grup

Some people see the government as a kindly hand, willing to help you up when you've fallen.

They don't notice that same hand pushing them down.

[TrickyFizzer]

Some people see the government as a kindly hand, willing to help you up when you've fallen.

They don't notice that same hand pushing them down.

Well said.

[Rogesi]

This might be a bad generalization, but I'd venture to say that nobody wants their goverment to be any larger than it needs to be to protects the rights of the people.

It's up to the people to determine what those rights are, though, and thus you get governments of varying size and composure.

[BTI]

This might be a bad generalization, but I'd venture to say that nobody wants their goverment to be any larger than it needs to be to protects the rights of the people.

People have wildly different views of what our rights are.

[Melkor]

This might be a bad generalization, but I'd venture to say that nobody wants their goverment to be any larger than it needs to be to protects the rights of the people.

It's up to the people to determine what those rights are, though, and thus you get governments of varying size and composure.

I don't think that's true though, because many people look at the government as a service provider rather than simply a protection against infringement on their rights.

[anonymous]

Because they need the government to prop up their jobs which contribute nothing to society. I mean seriously, I know I requested a porno involving a man, a woman, and a gorilla, but that doesn't mean the government should have propped up the guy who made the porno to please me. I should have done what the fans of Firefly did.

[Apeus]

Well, my mother for instance thinks that the government always does what's best for people, regulations are a good thing, and she says she doesn't see us losing any of our individual freedoms, and that I and any other libertarian is "crazy" and have "very negative outlooks on everything."

[Melkor]

Well, my mother for instance thinks that the government always does what's best for people, regulations are a good thing, and she says she doesn't see us losing any of our individual freedoms, and that I and any other libertarian is "crazy" and have "very negative outlooks on everything."

I'm gradually converting my entire family. My mother is strongly libertarian now, and 3 of my brothers are too. I'm working on my dad and other bros still, but they're moving in the right direction pretty quickly. My dad admitted that pot should be legalized the other day and it about blew my mind. He has always been very anti-legalization.

[Bushmaster]

People have wildly different views of what our rights are.

Indeed. Like the people who think ACORN had the "right" to an unlimited stream of tax money.

[An hero]

Because they need the government to prop up their jobs which contribute nothing to society. I mean seriously, I know I requested a porno involving a man, a woman, and a gorilla, but that doesn't mean the government should have propped up the guy who made the porno to please me. I should have done what the fans of Firefly did.

wuuuut

[Melkor]

wuuuut

Clearly he watches too much pron

[grup910]

People don't want to be pwned and dictated to by corporations. That's worse than "government," turning the society into a soulless kind of dystopia system based on selfishness and the profit motive.

The National Parks discussion is the perfect example. I *WANT* to own the parks. I don't want some soulless for-profit corporation controlling my access to that land and what I can and can't do there.

And if parks were privatized, where would the money come from to pay the fees to have access to them? From working for the corporation. So you become the corporate slave, their little b!tch. You have merely replaced the government -- in which you at least have some say through representation -- with total control basically by an amoral and some would say evil force in which you have no say, no control, and no representation.

No thanks! ;-)

Only clueless teenagers and adults with severely compromised intelligence or ethical standards think most of "libertarianism" has any legitimacy whatsoever. It's a fail system that takes power away from the individual consumer/citizen and gives it over to corporate control. That's the reality, and that's the final conclusion of its flawed system. That doesn't say other systems don't have their flaws, but the black-and-white thinking of the libertopians rarely is able to grasp that.

[GrokTheCube]

The issue are the fascist types preaching militant patriotism, and laws to protect ourselves from our moral downfall and to sacrifice freedom for security. They pulled it off in WW2. Uninformed and unintelligent fall for it hook line and sinker.

[Vitalshok44]

Simple, and overdeveloped sense of religion or an overdeveloped sense of belief that mankind has a right to control other people,

[Apeus]

I'm gradually converting my entire family. My mother is strongly libertarian now, and 3 of my brothers are too. I'm working on my dad and other bros still, but they're moving in the right direction pretty quickly. My dad admitted that pot should be legalized the other day and it about blew my mind. He has always been very anti-legalization.

I try to convince my mother, but she always ends up getting very angry and yelling at me. Cognitive dissonance is hard to deal with I guess. She can't seem to stand it when I give her facts to back up my beliefs and she has none to back up hers.

She always says "You just believe what you read on the internet, I keep telling you that not everything on there is true, anybody can post "facts."

Apparently she doesn't understand that a big thing you have to learn in college is how to discern legitimate from illegitimate sources.

She also seems to believe that my two years of college so far with a double major in history and economics, not to mention the hours upon hours of research I do on my own do happen to give me a little more knowledge than someone who gets their own knowledge from one hour of the local news per night.

[An hero]

People don't want to be pwned and dictated to by corporations. That's worse than "government," turning the society into a soulless kind of dystopia system based on selfishness and the profit motive.

The National Parks discussion is the perfect example. I *WANT* to own the parks. I don't want some soulless for-profit corporation controlling my access to that land and what I can and can't do there.

And if parks were privatized, where would the money come from to pay the fees to have access to them? From working for the corporation. So you become the corporate slave, their little b!tch. You have merely replaced the government -- in which you at least have some say through representation -- with total control basically by an amoral and some would say evil force in which you have no say, no control, and no representation.

No thanks! ;-)

Only clueless teenagers and adults with severely compromised intelligence or ethical standards think most of "libertarianism" has any legitimacy whatsoever. It's a fail system that takes power away from the individual consumer/citizen and gives it over to corporate control. That's the reality, and that's the final conclusion of its flawed system. That doesn't say other systems don't have their flaws, but the black-and-white thinking of the libertopians rarely is able to grasp that.

Ok, I read the parks thread but I skipped over that debate. I'll go read it now.

[Mr._Arcane]

Perhaps they are just mentally retarded?



Honestly, I think it's just a lack of information/rationality.

[GirthyCawk]

I'm seriously curious. I don't get how anyone could WANT the government to control you more and more and more.


in b4 grup

liberals see people in poverty and think it's the governments job to help them, unwanted side effects be damned

conservatives think the US needs to demonstrate its alphaness, unwanted side effects be damned. or they just want their morality forced on others

[RockyIV]

I'm seriously curious. I don't get how anyone could WANT the government to control you more and more and more.


in b4 grup

I think alot of people like to be lead rather than lead and want things given and decided for them, as long as it fits your brand of politics.

When they don't agree with it like the current lot of republican that were in power not to long ago, this is an abomonation but when W wanted No Child Left Behind or Medicare Part D it was the American way.

Voted Libertarian for the record.

[RockyIV]

Some people see the government as a kindly hand, willing to help you up when you've fallen.

They don't notice that same hand pushing them down.

x2 and repped. Some people just don't know that you don't get something for nothing.

[DaPlasurNDaPain]

I'm seriously curious. I don't get how anyone could WANT the government to control you more and more and more.


in b4 grup

Government is run by the people. So people trust government more than they would corporations and other interests that would enroach if there was no government/small government.

[otisthebat]

republicans think the US needs to demonstrate its alphaness, unwanted side effects be damned. or they just want their morality forced on others

fixed.

[ilikebeer]

people that are too stupid to take care of themeselves and think the government is here to help them

[ZenBowman]

I'm seriously curious. I don't get how anyone could WANT the government to control you more and more and more.


in b4 grup

Be careful, you are beginning to sound like an extreme leftist. People who can only understand their own view tend to have not considered other views at all.

There are plenty of positives for nationalism, social democracy, and other political systems. Libertarianism is simply one color in the palette.

[Who?]

1.) Low self-esteem- people's sense of self worth is very low. If you don't value your own life, why value another persons, or why value life at all?

2.) Conditioning- "death and taxes" people have been conditioned to think that government intrusion is natural, unavoidable, and necessary. But what do you expect when the state has a monopoly on education, and you are fined or imprisoned if you dissent..

3.) Ignorance- many people just don't give a ****, they never ask questions, look for answers, or think. These people happen to vote.

4.) No ambitions or goals - The shift of responsibility from the individual to the state lowers people from independent men to lifeless pods with no sense of life.

5.) Savages- people who completely disregard individual rights, aka collectivists. These "do-gooders" won't hesitate to sacrifice another person for "the greater good".

[tnel00]

fixed.

beat me to it

in everyday life the smartest people i meet are generally libertarians. i agree with the poster who said it was just a lack of information/reality

[GirthyCawk]

fixed.

yep, i should have probably said dem/rep instead of lib/conservative. hell i'm probably a conservative myself.

[An hero]

Ok, I read the parks thread but I skipped over that debate. I'll go read it now.

Wow, that was one of the dumbest things I've ever read

Government is run by the people.

Barely

Be careful, you are beginning to sound like an extreme leftist. People who can only understand their own view tend to have not considered other views at all.

There are plenty of positives for nationalism, social democracy, and other political systems. Libertarianism is simply one color in the palette.

Obviously libertarianism is not the only way of running things, but it's definitely better than what we have now. I'd gladly live in a place like Norway that is the opposite of libertarianism.

[JAGERBOY]

Convince me to be a Libertarian.