european countries during financial crisis

[maurer]

i find it interesting that in the united states, most blame conservatives for the financial crisis. in places like germany, however, christian democrats and free democrats are winning elections. social democrats lost a higher percentage of votes in decades. in great britain, the financial crisis has the labour party fearing losing power in the next election. do you guys think there is a fundamental difference in perspective between the US and european countries, or do you think people simply blame whoever is in office at the time of a crisis?

i want to discuss this because i don't believe conservatives have been in power in the US and therefore are not responsible for the financial crisis.

[Melkor]

Originally Posted by maurer

i find it interesting that in the united states, most blame conservatives for the financial crisis. in places like germany, however, christian democrats and free democrats are winning elections. social democrats lost a higher percentage of votes in decades. in great britain, the financial crisis has the labour party fearing losing power in the next election. do you guys think there is a fundamental difference in perspective between the US and european countries, or do you think people simply blame whoever is in office at the time of a crisis?

i want to discuss this because i don't believe conservatives have been in power in the US and therefore are not responsible for the financial crisis.

There is a fundamental difference in world view. Europeans have tried socialism, and found its failings, where Americans are still moving in the direction of socialism, having not learned the lesson that Europeans have. That's my take on it.

[Halfway]

Originally Posted by Melkor

There is a fundamental difference in world view. Europeans have tried socialism, and found its failings, where Americans are still moving in the direction of socialism, having not learned the lesson that Europeans have. That's my take on it.

Not so much, even the 'right' in europe is usually socialist by US definitions - committed to an expansive public sector, UHC, a huge welfare state, multiculturalism and generous immigration quotas.

They're all social democrats by any other name.. even the 'far right' are actually uber-socialist.

Europe has had mommy governments spoon in it's mouth for decades and wouldn't want it any other way - there's no voice for small government.

[Melkor]

Originally Posted by Halfway

Not so much, even the 'right' in europe is usually socialist by US definitions - committed to an expansive public sector, UHC, a huge welfare state, multiculturalism and generous immigration quotas.

They're all social democrats by any other name.. even the 'far right' are actually uber-socialist.

Europe has had mommy governments spoon in it's mouth for decades and wouldn't want it any other way - there's no voice for small government.

Right, but they're on the path leading away from it. You have no "Ron Paul" of Europe, because they have no concept of what real freedom even is any more, but they are starting to get sick of over-taxation and government control of every aspect of life. This last election showed that there is going to be positive change in that direction, even if it IS just a start.

[MiKey4]

Originally Posted by Melkor

Europeans have tried socialism, and found its failings, where Americans are still moving in the direction of socialism, having not learned the lesson that Europeans have. That's my take on it.

That's not accurate... there is no "shift" in underlying economic and social feeling, the percieved lack of popularity of the Labour party in the UK is primarily due to unusually strong opponents on both sides, and a pretty uncharismatic leader in Gordon Brown. Nobody knows which way it will swing from the central Labour position, left OR right. The UK is all I know of in detail.

This is only me view but I am firmly convinced it is representative of the UK. Not even the most rebellious conservative would try and remove the NHS- that's political suicide plain and simple. I think your take is based on your own opinion that socialism doesn't work if you forgive me for saying- which is a fine opinion to have, but I don't think it's used accurately.

[Halfway]

Originally Posted by MiKey4

That's not accurate... there is no "shift" in underlying economic and social feeling, the percieved lack of popularity of the Labour party in the UK is primarily due to unusually strong opponents on both sides, and a pretty uncharismatic leader in Gordon Brown. Nobody knows which way it will swing from the central Labour position, left OR right. The UK is all I know of in detail.

This is only me view but I am firmly convinced it is representative of the UK. Not even the most rebellious conservative would try and remove the NHS- that's political suicide plain and simple. I think your take is based on your own opinion that socialism doesn't work if you forgive me for saying- which is a fine opinion to have, but I don't think it's used accurately.

It's a little ironic that after spending a decade modelling themselves on Labour in the hope of getting elected the tories are facing a public that is sick and tired of Tony's legacy.

But even the 'conservative' icons of the UK were neo-liberal coporatists.. the only real difference between maggie and tony's eras is the huge extension of government power into peoples lives (which no main party will ever cut back), gross welfare expansion (which no main party really wants to axe) and ahderence to EU rules (which no main party is against)