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  1. #1
    Registered User ss4vegeta1's Avatar
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    Increasing Dopamine with L-Tyrosine & L-Phenylalanine?

    Does this combo increase dopamine? Also I hear it can raise blood pressure??? I found out this last year for some reason my body has been sensitive to things that can increase blood pressure. For example coffee but not tea can spike my blood pressure very high. Esp OTC pain relievers like acetaminophen.
    Distraction is an obstruction for the construction.

    “The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence.”

    Kakarot!
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  2. #2
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    Originally Posted by ss4vegeta1 View Post
    Does this combo increase dopamine?
    I would highly suggest adding 5-HTP to counteract tyrosine-mediated serotonin depletion.

    In terms of a significant pre-workout GH boost.... you would be much better off with Mucuna pruriens, 5-HTP, glycine, and [EGCG --> to inhibit L-dopa-mediated serotonin depletion as well as for Decarboxylase/COMT and peripheral clearance inhibition purposes].
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  3. #3
    Evolutionary Muse dsade's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    I would highly suggest adding 5-HTP to counteract tyrosine-mediated serotonin depletion.

    In terms of a significant pre-workout GH boost.... you would be much better off with Mucuna pruriens, 5-HTP, glycine, and [EGCG --> to inhibit L-dopa-mediated serotonin depletion as well as for Decarboxylase/COMT and peripheral clearance inhibition purposes].
    Good advice...though I would also recommend something to boost acetylcholine action as well.
    "Blood, Sweat, and Tears doesn't mean crying while you struggle to put your tampon in." ~dsade

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    Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Good advice...though I would also recommend something to boost acetylcholine action as well.
    Noted. I'd suggest choline and lecithin. You?
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  5. #5
    Evolutionary Muse dsade's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    Noted. I'd suggest choline and lecithin. You?
    I'm really liking Alpha-GPC...and lecithin is ALWAYS good.
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    Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I'm really liking Alpha-GPC...
    Noted. Just to clarify, lecithin & choline are inexpensive supplements, and the reason I did not mention Alpha-GPC was due to the cost to benefit ratio when factoring in the cost of the Mucuna pruriens, EGCG, 5-HTP, glycine, lecithin & choline.
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    Evolutionary Muse dsade's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    Noted. Just to clarify, lecithin & choline are inexpensive supplements, and the reason I did not mention Alpha-GPC was due to the cost to benefit ratio when factoring in the cost of the Mucuna pruriens, EGCG, 5-HTP, glycine, lecithin & choline.
    For straight cholines, I am a big fan of the citrate salt - especially preworkout with both buffering and KREBS enhancing properties.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    I would highly suggest adding 5-HTP to counteract tyrosine-mediated serotonin depletion.

    In terms of a significant pre-workout GH boost.... you would be much better off with Mucuna pruriens, 5-HTP, glycine, and [EGCG --> to inhibit L-dopa-mediated serotonin depletion as well as for Decarboxylase/COMT and peripheral clearance inhibition purposes].
    You could always add GABA, ornithine and melatonin for efficacy.
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  9. #9
    Registered User ss4vegeta1's Avatar
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    Here is another reason to increase dopamine.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/27/he...er=rss&emc=rss
    Distraction is an obstruction for the construction.

    “The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence.”

    Kakarot!
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  10. #10
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    I'd like to add that some studies show tyrosine and phenylalanine to be insulinogenic as well

    ie take them with your whey or bcaa's although this is arguable since they compete with other amino acids so for your purposes its probably best on an empty stomach

    also might want to add vit C and b6 since your body needs these to use the tyrosine and phenylalanine
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  11. #11
    Registered User ss4vegeta1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaptMcClain View Post
    I'd like to add that some studies show tyrosine and phenylalanine to be insulinogenic as well

    ie take them with your whey or bcaa's although this is arguable since they compete with other amino acids so for your purposes its probably best on an empty stomach

    also might want to add vit C and b6 since your body needs these to use the tyrosine and phenylalanine
    I am already up on vit C and b6 gj man but I didn't know tyrosine and phenylalanine are insulinogenic.
    Distraction is an obstruction for the construction.

    “The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence.”

    Kakarot!
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  12. #12
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    so if you take tyrosine your seretonin goes down and dopamine goes up if you take
    5htp your seretonin goes up and dopamine down, have i got this right??/
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    Originally Posted by ss4vegeta1 View Post
    Does this combo increase dopamine? Also I hear it can raise blood pressure??? I found out this last year for some reason my body has been sensitive to things that can increase blood pressure. For example coffee but not tea can spike my blood pressure very high. Esp OTC pain relievers like acetaminophen.
    I thought l-tyrosine increases norepinephrine, as does I-phenylalanine. But only l-phenylalanine increases dopamine?

    Adding l-glutamine (~500mg) is supposed to increase absorption of D and L-phenylalanine.*

    If you decide to take 5-htp (boosts serotonin) I've read it best to get a brand which explicitly states "peek x" free.*

    I am also considering taking SAMe. I spoke with the author of the article I cited and he said its fine to take SAMe, dl-phenylalanine, etc, on the list below.


    A good read:
    www . fibromyalgiacfsstore . com/brainfunc.html

    *
    Brain Function Questionnaire

    I have found that many of you fit into certain groups depending on how you answer the following questionnaire.

    Please use this questionnaire to find the group you fit into. It will help us make decisions about the correct way to start you on your road to recovery. Let's see which brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) you may be low in by taking this quiz.



    The "S" Group (S for Serotonin)


    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    It's hard for you to go to sleep.
    You can't stay asleep.
    You often find yourself irritable.
    Your emotions often lack rationality.
    You occasionally experience unexplained tears.
    Noise bothers you more than it used to. It seems louder than normal.
    You "flare up" at others more easily than you used to.
    You experience unprovoked anger.
    You feel depressed much of the time.
    You find you are more susceptible to pain.
    You prefer to be left alone.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.



    The "S" Group



    Serotonin is a hypothalamus neurotransmitter which is necessary for sleep to occur. A lack of serotonin causes difficulty in getting to sleep as well as staying asleep. It is often this lack of sleep that causes the symptoms mentioned above. Serotonin levels can easily be raised by supplementing with the essential amino acid, L-Tryptophan. Dietary supplements of L-Tryptophan are banned in the United States. The natural sources of L-Tryptophan include milk, cheese, meat, ham, peanuts, and cottage cheese. All of these are very high in calories and cholesterol content. As a consequence, in order to keep your serotonin supply at a proper level, you must supplement small amounts of food sources of L-Tryptophan with the serotonin production catalysts, calcium, magnesium, and trace element, chromium. 5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP) a form of Tryptophan, is available over-the-counter and works extremely well for most patients.



    Peek X Warning



    5HTP is derived from plant sources and when manufactured correctly is incredibly safe. However, some manufacturers try to cut corners and in may produce batches of 5HTP with potentially harmful contaminants, including a substance known as ?peak X.? Always read the label and make sure the 5HTP you?re taking is certified to be ?peak X? free. Every batch of Dr. Murphree?s 5HTP is certified to be ?peak X? free and says so on every bottle.



    Supplementing with 5HTP



    Start with taking 50mgs 30 minutes before bed. Take on an empty stomach, along with 4 ounces of juice (apple or grape). You may need to increase this dose up to 200mgs a night. If you feel hung over the next day, decrease your dose of 5HTP. Warning ? a few individuals who attempt to take 5HTP at night will have an adverse reaction. Individuals with a sluggish liver (usually more pronounced in CFS) may have trouble breaking down 5HTP fast enough. Instead of making them sleepy, it revs them up and they become more mentally alert. If this happens, simply take 1-2 5HTP tablets with food 1-2 times a day and discontinue using it at bedtime on empty stomach.

    Group S needs 5HTP - Get it Here




    The "O" Group (O for Opiods)


    Do ANY of these apply to your present feelings?

    Your life seems incomplete.
    You feel shy with all but your close friends.
    You have feelings of insecurity.
    You often feel unequal to others.
    When things go right you sometimes feel undeserving.
    You feel something is missing in your life.
    You occasionally feel a low self-worth or esteem.
    You feel inadequate as a person.
    You frequently feel fearful when there is nothing to fear.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.

    The "O" Group is named for the Opioid neurotransmitters contained in the Hypothalamus Gland.

    These neurotransmitters have two primary functions:

    1. Opioids are released in small bursts when we feel a sense of urgency (stress). Some individuals thrive on this sense of urgency. They love just meeting deadlines, racing around to get things done. They seem to feed off of this adrenaline rush.

    A sense of urgency can help us get out of bed in the morning or get the kids off to school. However, if you can never turn this sense of urgency off, you?ll eventually deplete the opioids along with other vital hormones including cortisol, and DHEA.

    As a way to turn off the constant mind chatter, those in the ?O Group? use stimulants and mind numbing chemicals (alcohol, marijuana, food, etc.) to escape the constant pressure they place on themselves to be more, do more, have more. Type A?s are often overcome by opioid burn out. They cannot sit still. Until one day the bottom falls out and they ?just can?t do it anymore.?

    Alcohol and other chemicals can temporarily relieve the anxious feelings associated with opioid overload. They do so by providing artificial opioids. Unfortunately, these artificial opioids also cause the Opioid manufacturing cells in your brain to reduce their output.

    In the long run these cells lose their ability to produce the needed opioid neurotransmitters. You then crave the artificial opioids and an addiction has been born.

    2. When you exercise, your body causes extra quantities of the opioids to be released. This takes away the pain of sore muscles and may provide a feeling of euphoria. Long distance runners and other avid exercise enthusiast are well aware of ?The High? that comes from pushing the body past its normal limits. The opioids play an important role in pain modulation.

    A deficiency of opioids can lower our pain threshold. A lowered pain threshold means being more sensitive to painful stimuli.

    DL-Phenylalanine (a special form of the amino acid Phenylalanine) can be extremely helpful in restoring proper opioid levels.

    Supplementing with DL- Phenylalanine (DLPA)

    Start with 1,000mgs, 1-2 times a day, on an empty stomach. If you don?t seem to notice any benefits, keep increasing the dose up to 4,000mgs twice a day.

    If you experience a rapid heartbeat, agitation or hyperactivity, reduce or stop taking DL- Phenylalanine.

    L- Glutamine increases the effectiveness of both DL and L- Phenylalanine.

    Take 500mgs of L- Glutamine 1-2 times a day on an empty stomach along with the DL-Phenyalanine or L-Phenyalanine.

    Both DL and L- Phenylalanine can increase blood pressure. If you already have high blood pressure, consult your doctor before taking either form of Phenylalanine.

    Phenylalanine can be stimulating and shouldn?t be taken past 3 in the afternoon.

    Group O needs DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) - Get it here




    The "G" Group (G for GABA)


    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    You often feel anxious for no reason.
    You sometimes feel "free floating" anxiety.
    You frequently feel "edgy" and it's difficult to relax.
    You often feel a "knot" in your stomach.
    Falling asleep is sometimes difficult.
    It?s hard to turn your mind off when you want to relax.
    You occasionally experience feelings of panic for no reason.
    You often use alcohol or other sedatives to calm down.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.

    The "G" group symptoms are from the absence of the neurotransmitter, Gamma Amine Butyric Acid (GABA). GABA is an important neurotransmitter involved in regulating moods and mental clarity.

    Tranquilizers used to treat anxiety and panic disorders work by increasing the GABA.

    GABA is made from the amino acid, Glutamine. Glutamine passes across the blood-brain barrier and helps provide the necessary fuel needed for proper brain function.

    A shortage of L- Glutamine can reduce IQ levels. L- Glutamine supplementation has been shown to increase IQ levels in some mentally deficient children. L- Glutamine is brain fuel. It feeds the brain cells, allowing them to fire on all cylinders. A deficiency in L- Glutamine can result in ?foggy thinking? and fatigue.

    Individuals with ?Fibro fog? may benefit tremendously from this essential amino acid.

    Even a small shortage of L- Glutamine will produce unwarranted feelings of insecurity and anxiousness. Other symptoms include continual fatigue, depression, and occasionally impotence.

    Supplementing with GABA

    Usually only a small dose of GABA is needed - 500 - 1,000mgs twice a day. Some individuals may need to take GABA 3-4 times a day. Like most amino acids, GABA needs to be taken on an empty stomach.

    Group G needs GABA (Gamma Amine Butyric Acid) - Get it here

    ...
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    ...


    The "D" Group (D for Dopamine)


    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    You lack pleasure in life.
    You feel there are no real rewards in life.
    You have unexplained lack of concern for others, even loved ones.
    You experience decreased parental feelings.
    Life seems less "colorful" or "flavorful."
    Things that used to be "fun" aren?t any longer enjoyable.
    You have become a less spiritual or socially concerned person.

    If three or more of the above apply then read below.

    The "D" Group

    Dopamine is a neurotransmitter associated with the enjoyment of life, food, arts, nature, your family, friends, hobbies, and other pleasures. The popularity of cocaine (or chocolate) stems from the fact that it causes very high levels of dopamine to be released in a sudden rush.

    This creates a euphoric state. A dopamine deficiency can lead to a condition known as anhedonia.

    Anhedonia is the lack of ability to feel any pleasure or remorse in life (lifeless). It also reduces the person's attention span. For example, a person who has taken cocaine for some time will have used up most of his or her dopamine supply.

    Their attention span is often reduced to 2 to 3 minutes instead of the usual 50 to 60 minutes. Learning, for such a person, is nearly impossible.

    Brain fatigue, confusion, and lethargy are all byproducts of low dopamine. The brain cells which "manufacture" dopamine use the amino acid L-Phenylalanine as the raw material. Like most cells in the hypothalamus, they have the ability to produce 4 or 5 times their usual output if larger quantities of the raw materials (amino acids and their co-factors) are made available through nutritional supplementation.

    Supplementing with L-Phenylalanine

    Start with 1,000mgs, twice a day, taken on an empty stomach. If needed, increase up to 4,000mgs twice a day.

    If you experience a rapid heartbeat, agitation, or hyperactivity, reduce or stop taking L-Phenylalanine.

    L-glutamine increases the effectiveness of both DL and L- Phenylalanine.

    Take 500mgs of L-Glutamine, 1-2 times a day, on an empty stomach.

    Both DL and L-Phenylalanine can increase blood pressure. If you already have high blood pressure, consult your doctor before taking either form of phenylalanine. Phenylalanine can be stimulating and shouldn?t be taken past 3 in the afternoon.


    Group D needs L-Phenylalanine - Get it here





    [B]The "N" Group (N for Norepinephrine)[/u]


    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    You suffer from a lack of energy.
    You often find it difficult to "get going."
    You suffer From decreased drive.
    You often start projects and then don't finish them.
    You frequently feel a need to sleep or "hibernate."
    You feel depressed a good deal of the time.
    You occasionally feel paranoid.
    Your survival seems threatened.
    You are bored a great deal of the time.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.

    The "N" Group

    The neurotransmitter Norepinephrine, when released in the brain, causes feelings of arousal, energy, and drive. On the other hand, a short supply of it will cause feelings of a lack of ambition, drive, and or energy.

    It can even cause depression, paranoia, and feelings of apathy. Norepinephrine is also used to initiate the "flow" of adrenaline when you are under psychological stress. People under a great load of stress, or a continual stress loading of almost any size, often find their Norepinephrine levels to be too low.

    This is most frequently detected by the "feelings" listed in the questionnaire you have just taken. The production of Norepinephrine in the hypothalamus is a 2-step process. The amino acid, L- Phenylalanine, is first converted into Tyrosine.

    The amino acid, Tyrosine, is then converted into Norepinephrine. In extreme cases L-Tyrosine is supplemented to increase Norepinephrine and Dopamine. However, if the levels of Tyrosine are not low, this can cause headaches. This is why I usually recommend L- Phenylalanine replacement therapy first.

    Supplementing with L-Phenylalanine

    Start with 1,000mgs, twice a day, taken on an empty stomach. If needed, increase up to 4,000mgs twice a day. If you experience a rapid heartbeat, agitation, or hyperactivity - reduce or stop taking L- phenylalanine.

    L-glutamine increases the effectiveness of both DL and L- phenylalanine.

    Take 500mgs of L-glutamine 1-2 times a day, on an empty stomach.

    Both DL and L-phenylalanine can increase blood pressure.

    If you already have high blood pressure, consult your doctor before taking either form of phenylalanine.

    Phenylalanine can be stimulating and shouldn?t be taken past 3 in the afternoon.


    Update - There's an option to L-Phenylalanine


    I've started recommending SAMe instead of L-Phenylalanine because of positive recent studies. S-Adenosyl-methionine (SAMe)- is involved in regulating the brain's neurotransmitters. Normally the brain manufactures all the SAMe it needs from the amino acid methionine. However, low protein diets, malabsorption and deficiencies developed from excess methionine use in certain detoxification pathways can create a need for SAMe replacement. SAMe has been shown through several recent, well designed, studies to be one of the best natural antidepressants available.

    SAMe helps boost serotonin and epinephrine levels. It also helps increase the production of endorphins. Endorphins are the body?s natural pain blocking chemicals and are more powerful than morphine. Because it produces quick results, SAMe has been used to hasten the onset of action of the antidepressant imipramine.

    *SAMe Helps Boost the Effects of Antidepressants

    Prescription antidepressants fail to work for fifty percent of those take them. One way to boost the beneficial effects of antidepressant medications is to take them with SAMe (S-adenosyl-L-methionine). Research has already shown that SAMe increases both serotonin and noriepinephrine levels (brain chemicals) and is a potent antidepressant by itself. Now researchers have shown that combining SAMe with prescription antidepressants rreduces the failure rate by 43%.

    SAMe has become one of my favorite nutritional supplement. I?m using it more and more in my practice for depression, fatigue, and pain disorders. SAMe elevates endorphin levels.

    *SAMe and Fibromyalgia

    Studies involving FMS patients and SAMe have shown dramatic improvements in pain reduction. *One study showed that individuals taking SAMe for a period of 6 weeks had an improvement of 40% in pain reduction and 35% improvement in their depression! (Grassetto & Varotto, 1994, pp. 797-806).
    Jaccobsen S, Danneskiold ? Samose B, Anderson RB. Oral* s-adenosyl-L-methionine in primary fibromyalgia. Double-blind clinical evaluation. Scandinavian Journal of Rheum 20(4): 294-302, 1991.

    Supplementing with SAMe

    Start with 200mg-400mg taken on an empty stomach in the morning. You can go up to a maximum 1200mg day.* Don?t take late in the day. Not everyone will need to take the maximum dose. Take a good optimal daily allowance multivitamin/mineral formula like CFS/Fibro Formula (or something similar) and I also recommend taking adrenal cortex supplements.
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    Fwiw

    I called my doc to ask her if I can take those amino acids in the article I quoted while taking ~200 mg/day of bupropion hcl (aka welbutrin). She said it should not present any issues she is aware of, but, she cautioned me to "do more research on my own"...

    To me it seems fine to combine DRIs and those amino acids in the article I quoted. But I'm no expert...SO:

    What is the consensus here on combining them?
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    Originally Posted by giantbrandon View Post
    so if you take tyrosine your seretonin goes down and dopamine goes up if you take
    5htp your seretonin goes up and dopamine down, have i got this right??/
    Yes, This is due to singular substrate-induced competitive inhibition of the decarboxylase enzyme.



    Originally Posted by cabbyryde
    I thought l-tyrosine increases norepinephrine, as does I-phenylalanine. But only l-phenylalanine increases dopamine?
    No.
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    OP, why do you want to increase ur dopamine?

    Your gonna spend lots of money on these things and end up -possibly- downregulating your receptors. Could lead to a mild bit of psychological dependence if you think your dopamine is low without them.

    I suggest a diet rich in whole, unprocessed foods for the most part. Go easy on the sugar/salt. Stop coffee and **** like that for a bit.. Also stop fapping. This should up-regulate your dopamine receptors, which is better than just adding more dopamine to the equation since the dopamine release is transient.

    Then when you eat junk food, coffee, fap, etc, the percieved effects of dopamine will be much greater.
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    Registered User Mr-Bombay29's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rushed77 View Post
    OP, why do you want to increase ur dopamine?

    Your gonna spend lots of money on these things and end up -possibly- downregulating your receptors. Could lead to a mild bit of psychological dependence if you think your dopamine is low without them.

    I suggest a diet rich in whole, unprocessed foods for the most part. Go easy on the sugar/salt. Stop coffee and **** like that for a bit.. Also stop fapping. This should up-regulate your dopamine receptors, which is better than just adding more dopamine to the equation since the dopamine release is transient.

    Then when you eat junk food, coffee, fap, etc, the percieved effects of dopamine will be much greater.
    i just feel low on dopamine, i workout keep healthy etc, but i feel tired and so unmotivated and have a lack of self esteem sometimes and then feel on top of the world other times, and i feel its maybe a dopamine thing
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    Originally Posted by Mr-Bombay29 View Post
    i just feel low on dopamine, i workout keep healthy etc, but i feel tired and so unmotivated and have a lack of self esteem sometimes and then feel on top of the world other times, and i feel its maybe a dopamine thing
    Have you had a hormone panel done? Sounds like it could be test. Or possibly bipolar or something.. but DONT get on antidepressants or any bull****. Rule out hormonal issues.

    It could just be life bro. Got a girl? Like where your life is/is going? Need more friends/hobby's? I doubt a dopamine increasing supplement will be the fix you are looking for.
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    Originally Posted by Rushed77 View Post
    Have you had a hormone panel done? Sounds like it could be test. Or possibly bipolar or something.. but DONT get on antidepressants or any bull****. Rule out hormonal issues.

    It could just be life bro. Got a girl? Like where your life is/is going? Need more friends/hobby's? I doubt a dopamine increasing supplement will be the fix you are looking for.
    ive had tests done, my testosteroner was borderline low once and then high once so they disregarded me as it never went below the low limit. I have had girls etc etc, i have friends, i have hobbies, in a good career etc, there is no reason for me to be low but i feel it.
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    Originally Posted by Mr-Bombay29 View Post
    ive had tests done, my testosteroner was borderline low once and then high once so they disregarded me as it never went below the low limit. I have had girls etc etc, i have friends, i have hobbies, in a good career etc, there is no reason for me to be low but i feel it.
    Sounds like you're overtrained maybe?
    I had that last year. After 3-4 months straight of crazy intense workouts 4-6 times a week.
    I trained to failure almost every single time. Took caffeine-based pre-workout supplements. It can get to you, mentally.
    I looked crazy good, but felt sad most of the time. Slightly depressed.
    I stopped working out for a month. After that just working out once a week or so. I was back to my old self 2-3 months later.
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    I was thinking of taking 5-htp,GABA and Phenylalanine, is this to much ?
    Goals for 2011:
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    - 220 lbs at 10% BF

    "I want to get big fast man, In gym class im the smallest guy"
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