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View Poll Results: Which do you think is better?

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  • Rippetoes

    41 44.09%
  • Stronglifts 5x5

    52 55.91%
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  1. #1
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    Stronglifts 5x5s or Rippetoes?

    Which one do you think is better?

    Also, on Rippetoes, would it be okay to add a day like Saturday for biceps, triceps, and abs?

    Or is it smarter to not do this?

    Any opinions on GOMAD? Gallon of milk a day?!
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  2. #2
    look, a robot! L1GHTWEIGHTBABY's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    Also, on Rippetoes, would it be okay to add a day like Saturday for biceps, triceps, and abs?
    is that a joke?
    praising the god of form
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  3. #3
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    Talking

    Originally Posted by L1GHTWEIGHTBABY View Post
    is that a joke?
    No it's not a joke. Is it beneficial to do this or not?
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  4. #4
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    STOP!!! Neither program is better. They are different programs based on different training techniques. They are both good but better for certain individuals depending on thier goals, previous training history, etc.

    As for the adding isolations...I believe both authors say....dont f*ck with the program....
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132349183&page=5
    **2013 Training Log**

    "225, 315, 405 whatever. Yeah these benchmark digits come to mean a lot to us, the few warriors in this arena. They are, however, just numbers. I’m guilty of that sh*t too, waiting for somebody to powder my nuts cuz I did 20 reps of whatever the **** on the bench. Big f*king deal. It is all relative." G Diesel
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  5. #5
    Registered User Dave76's Avatar
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    I vote for StrongLifts. First, it has a better name. Second, you get to do more work. More work = more gains. That's also why it's a good idea to add something on Saturdays. You can't get big arms by being lazy and laying around all day. That crap about growing while outside the gym is nothing but a bunch of broscience.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    I vote for StrongLifts. First, it has a better name. Second, you get to do more work. More work = more gains. That's also why it's a good idea to add something on Saturdays. You can't get big arms by being lazy and laying around all day. That crap about growing while outside the gym is nothing but a bunch of broscience.
    So then it is a good idea to add some bi and tri and ab isolation excersises on an off day like saturday then?
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  7. #7
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    Stronglifts is good if you start with really low weight. I believe it has you using an empty bar at first. But as you start adding some decent weight to the bar, 5x5 across every workout starts to become taxing. At that point 3x5 ala Rippetoes is probably better until you exhaust all of your beginner gains on the program.

    And no arm day on Saturday please!
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  8. #8
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    Let's see:

    Rippetoe - Guy with decades of lifting and coaching experience, was a former competitive powerlifter, student of world class athletes and coaches like Bill Starr, one of the first ever to be certified as a CSCS, is a USA Weightlifting Level III Certified Coach, owner and general manager of a hardcore weightlifting gym for many years.

    Stronglifts - Skinny kid who max squats 315, max benches 220, has never competed, coached, or received any formal training, and has basically just copied and pasted a bunch of sh*t together on the internet.

    You decide.
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  9. #9
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    ^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    So then it is a good idea to add some bi and tri and ab isolation excersises on an off day like saturday then?
    The 5x5 program incorporates arms on Friday and abs on Monday and Wednesday.
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  11. #11
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    Stronglifts is an excellent site, but his program is just a rip off of SS with extra volume, which is both unnecessary and counterproductive.
    To guys starting out - please understand: when you can deadlift 450lb for 10 reps your back, hamstrings & traps will reflect THAT not which program you used to get there. When you can curl 150 for 10, your biceps will reflect THAT, not which program, rep range or method you used to get there. There is no voodoo independent of poundage progression, just faster and slower ways of getting to your next pit stop.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    I vote for StrongLifts. First, it has a better name. Second, you get to do more work. More work = more gains. That's also why it's a good idea to add something on Saturdays. You can't get big arms by being lazy and laying around all day. That crap about growing while outside the gym is nothing but a bunch of broscience.
    More work does not automatically mean more gains.
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  13. #13
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    Damn guys!! Even I could tell Dave was being Sarcastic!!!!!!
    []---[] Equipment Crew Member No. 11

    "As iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another" Proverbs 27:17
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by SuicideGripMe View Post
    STOP!!! Neither program is better. They are different programs based on different training techniques. They are both good but better for certain individuals depending on thier goals, previous training history, etc.

    As for the adding isolations...I believe both authors say....dont f*ck with the program....
    No, they are basically aimed at the same guys, based on the same philosophies and make the same claims about what they'll do. One is basically just an inferior copy of the other though. Comparisons are fair and conclusive.
    To guys starting out - please understand: when you can deadlift 450lb for 10 reps your back, hamstrings & traps will reflect THAT not which program you used to get there. When you can curl 150 for 10, your biceps will reflect THAT, not which program, rep range or method you used to get there. There is no voodoo independent of poundage progression, just faster and slower ways of getting to your next pit stop.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    Stronglifts - Skinny kid who max squats 315, max benches 220, has never competed, coached, or received any formal training, and has basically just copied and pasted a bunch of sh*t together on the internet.

    You decide.
    Said kid lifts more than I do currently!
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by Serge006 View Post
    Said kid lifts more than I do currently!
    He claims to have been lifting for like 10 years. Those numbers are an embarrassment for someone lifting that long.
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  17. #17
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    This is from the Starting Strength Wiki FAQ

    StrongLifts 5x5 is pretty much the same thing, right? Can I do that instead?

    "Stronglifts has outstanding explanations of the main lifts and great supplementary information... but unfortunatley it is also peddles a wannabe Kethnaab's version of Starting Strength, with an added 40% volume and additional mandatory accessory exercises. Here is how the designer of Stronglifts 5x5 justifies his approach:

    Originally posted by Mehdi, founder of Stronglifts:


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Which one is better? Rippetoe's 3x5 or StrongLifts 5x5? Both programs are proven to work and will give similar results. The main difference between Rippetoe's and StrongLifts 5x5 are:

    StrongLifts 5x5 recommends starting with an empty bar the first workout.
    Rippetoe has you start with weight on the bar depending on how much you can handle. You'll progress faster with Rippetoe since you're starting with more weight. When I train people 1 on 1, I also tell them to use bigger increases or start with heavier weights if I think they can handle more weight. But when I give a standard template, it's empty bar everywhere.

    StrongLifts 5x5 includes assistance exercises like Pull-ups, Chin-ups, Push-ups, Prone Iso Bridges & Reverse Crunches because beginners always want extra arm & ab work. Better than wasting time with triceps extension & biceps curls. Rippetoe also includes Pull-ups & Chin-ups in the starting strength program from Practical Programming (not in Starting Strength) and recommends weighted Roman Chair Situps to help the Overhead Press.

    StrongLifts 5x5 includes Inverted Rows instead of Power Cleans (Starting Strength) or pull-ups/chin-ups (Practical Programming). You can include Power Cleans instead of Inverted Rows if you want, but from my experience it's easier to learn how to Power Clean once you can Squat/Deadlift correctly.

    StrongLifts 5x5 has 5 sets of 5 instead of Rippetoe's 3 sets of 5. Why 5 sets of 5? 1) more sets to practice technique 2) more hypertrophy because of the increased volume.
    Those are the differences. Similarities: Squats, Deadlifts, Overhead Press, Bench Press and weight increasing each workout. Both programs work and give similar results. Decide for yourself which one you want to do.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Is starting Stronglifts with and empty barbell the same as starting Rippetoe's with 30 lbs?


    StrongLifts 5x5:
    5x5x45lb = 1125 lbs. tonnage (bar only)

    vs.

    Starting Strength:
    3x5x75lb = 1125 lbs tonnage (bar + 30 lbs)

    These are working weights, additional warmup should be done for both programs.


    One might take this to mean that starting 'Stronglifts' with an empty barbell is equal to starting 'Starting Strength' with 75 pounds, but it's not. You also have to look at intensity, which is a percentage of your maximum strength. True, they both have equal volume, but Starting Strength has a higher Intensity which will result in stimulating more growth.

    He also says that the extra 10 repetitions of worksets per lift will help with technique.

    One other thing: Getting to 3x5x315 on Starting Strength is very doable. Getting to 5x5x315 on StrongLifts 5x5 is much harder.

    No, the original Starting Strength, Mark Rippetoe's version, is the best way to go about gaining strength as fast as possible for as long as possible. You will be doing just as much volume on Starting Strength, but you'll be doing it because of the increased intensity with heavier weight, not because of increased sets with lighter weights. Plus StrongLifts doesn't include powercleans in their program, and they are arguably one of the most effective exercises a beginner can do, they are however tough to learn. "
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    Originally Posted by OntarioGuy View Post
    This is from the Starting Strength Wiki FAQ

    StrongLifts 5x5 is pretty much the same thing, right? Can I do that instead?

    "Stronglifts has outstanding explanations of the main lifts and great supplementary information... but unfortunatley it is also peddles a wannabe Kethnaab's version of Starting Strength, with an added 40% volume and additional mandatory accessory exercises. Here is how the designer of Stronglifts 5x5 justifies his approach:

    Originally posted by Mehdi, founder of Stronglifts:


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Which one is better? Rippetoe's 3x5 or StrongLifts 5x5? Both programs are proven to work and will give similar results. The main difference between Rippetoe's and StrongLifts 5x5 are:

    StrongLifts 5x5 recommends starting with an empty bar the first workout.
    Rippetoe has you start with weight on the bar depending on how much you can handle. You'll progress faster with Rippetoe since you're starting with more weight. When I train people 1 on 1, I also tell them to use bigger increases or start with heavier weights if I think they can handle more weight. But when I give a standard template, it's empty bar everywhere.

    StrongLifts 5x5 includes assistance exercises like Pull-ups, Chin-ups, Push-ups, Prone Iso Bridges & Reverse Crunches because beginners always want extra arm & ab work. Better than wasting time with triceps extension & biceps curls. Rippetoe also includes Pull-ups & Chin-ups in the starting strength program from Practical Programming (not in Starting Strength) and recommends weighted Roman Chair Situps to help the Overhead Press.

    StrongLifts 5x5 includes Inverted Rows instead of Power Cleans (Starting Strength) or pull-ups/chin-ups (Practical Programming). You can include Power Cleans instead of Inverted Rows if you want, but from my experience it's easier to learn how to Power Clean once you can Squat/Deadlift correctly.

    StrongLifts 5x5 has 5 sets of 5 instead of Rippetoe's 3 sets of 5. Why 5 sets of 5? 1) more sets to practice technique 2) more hypertrophy because of the increased volume.
    Those are the differences. Similarities: Squats, Deadlifts, Overhead Press, Bench Press and weight increasing each workout. Both programs work and give similar results. Decide for yourself which one you want to do.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Is starting Stronglifts with and empty barbell the same as starting Rippetoe's with 30 lbs?


    StrongLifts 5x5:
    5x5x45lb = 1125 lbs. tonnage (bar only)

    vs.

    Starting Strength:
    3x5x75lb = 1125 lbs tonnage (bar + 30 lbs)

    These are working weights, additional warmup should be done for both programs.


    One might take this to mean that starting 'Stronglifts' with an empty barbell is equal to starting 'Starting Strength' with 75 pounds, but it's not. You also have to look at intensity, which is a percentage of your maximum strength. True, they both have equal volume, but Starting Strength has a higher Intensity which will result in stimulating more growth.

    He also says that the extra 10 repetitions of worksets per lift will help with technique.

    One other thing: Getting to 3x5x315 on Starting Strength is very doable. Getting to 5x5x315 on StrongLifts 5x5 is much harder.

    No, the original Starting Strength, Mark Rippetoe's version, is the best way to go about gaining strength as fast as possible for as long as possible. You will be doing just as much volume on Starting Strength, but you'll be doing it because of the increased intensity with heavier weight, not because of increased sets with lighter weights. Plus StrongLifts doesn't include powercleans in their program, and they are arguably one of the most effective exercises a beginner can do, they are however tough to learn. "
    Can somebody please explain to me how the weight progression works in Starting Strength? And is this kenthaab version of Starting Strength legitimate and reputable?
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    Can somebody please explain to me how the weight progression works in Starting Strength? And is this kenthaab version of Starting Strength legitimate and reputable?
    The weight progression is simple. You add weight to the bar every workout. Yes, the Kethnaab version is legitimate and reputable, but it's slightly different from the original Starting Strength program. It used to be a sticky here, actually.
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    Originally Posted by xXDeadmanXx View Post
    The weight progression is simple. You add weight to the bar every workout. Yes, the Kethnaab version is legitimate and reputable, but it's slightly different from the original Starting Strength program. It used to be a sticky here, actually.
    Any certain amount of weight that you should progressively add? I've heard that you're supposed to add 2.5% of the current weight every session.

    What differences are there between the Kethnaab version and the original Starting Strength program?
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    What differences are there between the Kethnaab version and the original Starting Strength program?
    The original SS program has power cleans, kethnaab substituted barbell rows.
    "Motivation comes from within. You won't get it from others or by seeking the approval of others." - jgreystoke

    "If it's your day to train, train. Unless you're coughing up blood, or the jagged end of a broken bone is protruding from a limb, do work." - ironwill2008

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    Originally Posted by r_graz View Post
    The original SS program has power cleans, kethnaab substituted barbell rows.
    Okay thanks. I just finished up my first Starting Strength session on Wednesday, workout A. Today I'm going to go and do workout B....only thing is my legs are killing me from Wednesday, because it had been so long since I've done squats. I had a trainer train me in the 3 lifts(deadlift, squat, and bench) so I know that my form was decent, but by no means perfect.

    What I am getting at is, since my legs and glutes are killing me even to just walk down the stairs, should I go to the gym today or should I allow more time for rest?

    I was reading on Bill Starr's 5x5 page and it says as quoted "Adding some arm work once a week is fine." Does this apply to Starting Strength program too?
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    Okay thanks. I just finished up my first Starting Strength session on Wednesday, workout A. Today I'm going to go and do workout B....only thing is my legs are killing me from Wednesday, because it had been so long since I've done squats. I had a trainer train me in the 3 lifts(deadlift, squat, and bench) so I know that my form was decent, but by no means perfect.

    What I am getting at is, since my legs and glutes are killing me even to just walk down the stairs, should I go to the gym today or should I allow more time for rest?

    I was reading on Bill Starr's 5x5 page and it says as quoted "Adding some arm work once a week is fine." Does this apply to Starting Strength program too?


    ^^^^ No that is for Bill Starr's 5x5 not Rippetoes.
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    Any certain amount of weight that you should progressively add? I've heard that you're supposed to add 2.5% of the current weight every session.

    What differences are there between the Kethnaab version and the original Starting Strength program?
    With regards to weight progression, you can download this logbook calculator (if you have Excel) and it lets you plug in your starting weights, and calculates each weight for each workout. It contains the Original SS, Practical Programming NOvice(I'm doing this one), Onus Wunsleur Novice, and Wichita Falls Novice programs.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3382978/St...ook-Calculator

    This was listed on the Tools & Downloads of the Starting Strength Wiki
    http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi..._Strength_Wiki
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    No it's not a joke. Is it beneficial to do this or not?
    I think you should stop posting threads and asking questions until you are prepared to listen to the answers people are giving you.

    neg rep.
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    Okay thanks. I just finished up my first Starting Strength session on Wednesday, workout A. Today I'm going to go and do workout B....only thing is my legs are killing me from Wednesday, because it had been so long since I've done squats. I had a trainer train me in the 3 lifts(deadlift, squat, and bench) so I know that my form was decent, but by no means perfect.
    You need to use lighter weights, first of all, to nail down form. You may even stick to lighter weights for a month or so, until you have it down. Then worry about going all out. In that time, your legs will start getting used to doing Squats.

    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    What I am getting at is, since my legs and glutes are killing me even to just walk down the stairs, should I go to the gym today or should I allow more time for rest?
    Personally, I say skip doing Squats on your next workout. You went too hard on your first workout, and you are paying for it. Use this as a learning experience to go easier next time, so you can get form down.

    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    I was reading on Bill Starr's 5x5 page and it says as quoted "Adding some arm work once a week is fine." Does this apply to Starting Strength program too?
    Sure, it's definitely okay to add arm-work to your routine. But you can't all your routine Rip's SS any more. It's just how it is. Just don't go overboard. The whole point of Rip's SS is to get a foundation of strength with those exercises, so don't go out of your way to subvert the program.

    Whatever you decide on, stick to it.
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    Originally Posted by Nick1971 View Post
    You need to use lighter weights, first of all, to nail down form. You may even stick to lighter weights for a month or so, until you have it down. Then worry about going all out. In that time, your legs will start getting used to doing Squats.



    Personally, I say skip doing Squats on your next workout. You went too hard on your first workout, and you are paying for it. Use this as a learning experience to go easier next time, so you can get form down.



    Sure, it's definitely okay to add arm-work to your routine. But you can't all your routine Rip's SS any more. It's just how it is. Just don't go overboard. The whole point of Rip's SS is to get a foundation of strength with those exercises, so don't go out of your way to subvert the program.

    Whatever you decide on, stick to it.
    Thanks for all of the advice! By saying that . "But you can't all your routine Rip's SS any more."...are you implying that I'm not really following the program by adding more exercises?
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    Thanks for all of the advice! By saying that . "But you can't all your routine Rip's SS any more."...are you implying that I'm not really following the program by adding more exercises?
    You can add arm work, but much later, and not in ridiculous amounts.
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    Originally Posted by jhoffy22 View Post
    Thanks for all of the advice! By saying that . "But you can't all your routine Rip's SS any more."...are you implying that I'm not really following the program by adding more exercises?
    He's pretty emphatic about not adding exercises, or replacing existing exercises, when you first start out. Later on when you get to programming, it's a different story. But it's not a Starting Strength routine by then.
    --- Nick ---
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    Originally Posted by Nick1971 View Post
    He's pretty emphatic about not adding exercises, or replacing existing exercises, when you first start out. Later on when you get to programming, it's a different story. But it's not a Starting Strength routine by then.
    Okay I understand what you're saying now. Thanks
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