You're gonna get taxed/fined if you don't have health insurance.

[biguglykidjoe]

WASHINGTON -- Memo to President Barack Obama: It's a tax. Obama insisted this weekend on national television that requiring people to carry health insurance - and fining them if they don't - isn't the same thing as a tax increase. But the language of Democratic bills to revamp the nation's health care system doesn't quibble. Both the House bill and the Senate Finance Committee proposal clearly state that the fines would be a tax.

And the reason the fines are in the legislation is to enforce the coverage requirement.

"If you put something in the Internal Revenue Code, and you tell the IRS to collect it, I think that's a tax," said Clint Stretch, head of the tax policy group for Deloitte, a major accounting firm. "If you don't pay, the person who's going to come and get it is going to be from the IRS."

Democrats aren't the first to propose that individuals be required to carry health insurance and fined if they refuse. The conservative Heritage Foundation called for such a mandate in the 1990s' health care debate, although its proposal differed from the ones pending in Congress. Heritage has since dropped the idea and now favors using tax credits to encourage people to buy coverage - carrots and not sticks.

During the 2008 political campaign, Obama opposed making coverage mandatory because of the costs. His position has shifted now that it's becoming clear such a requirement will be part of any legislation that Congress sends him. Conservative activists are calling it a violation of his pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class.

"This is exactly what George Bush Sr. did when he said he wouldn't raise taxes, and it cost him the next election," said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform. "Obama is doing the same thing, but he's insulting people by telling them that if you don't call it a big purple banana, somehow it wouldn't be a tax."

Some liberals acknowledge that Obama might be vulnerable on the insurance requirement. But they say most people will understand as long as the legislation provides enough subsidies to make the coverage affordable for those who would now be required to have it. The size of those tax credits is a central issue as the Senate Finance Committee starts voting on legislation Tuesday.

"I think it's a metaphysical question as to whether it's a tax or not," said Roger Hickey, co-director of the Campaign for America's Future. "The real question that will determine whether people are upset is whether the insurance is affordable."

In an interview that aired Sunday on ABC's "This Week," Obama insisted that the insurance requirement is not a tax.

"For us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase," the president said. "What it's saying is...that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore.

"Right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance," Obama added. "Nobody considers that a tax increase.

"You just can't make up that language and decide that that's called a tax increase," he added.

But a Democratic staff description of Sen. Max Baucus' bill calls the proposed fines an "excise tax." Initially, the Montana Democrat's plan called for penalties of up to $950 for individuals and $3,800 for families. But Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., said Monday he expects the family penalty to be slashed in half to $1,900.

The House bill uses a complex formula to calculate the penalties, calling them a "tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage." People would report their insurance coverage on their tax returns.

The coverage mandate is part of a political bargain in which the insurance industry would agree to take all applicants, regardless of prior medical history.

"If we're going to have coverage without regard to pre-existing conditions, it makes sense," said economist Roberton Williams of the Tax Policy Center. "Otherwise people will come in the door the day they get sick." He sees no distinction between the requirement to get coverage and the fines themselves.

"The fact that it is imposed on people and they have no choice in paying it, and the fact that it's administered through the tax system all make it look like a tax," Williams said. The center is a joint venture of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution.

It wouldn't be the first asterisk added to Obama's campaign pledge on taxes. Earlier this year, he signed a tobacco tax increase to pay for children's health insurance. Even that can be read as a violation of his expansive campaign promise.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12, 2008. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

[Canadas_elite]

Damn ...what am I gonna do FFFFFUUUU

[Asian Lifter]

lmfao... i'm hating this guy more and more everyday. I can't afford that ****, so is he gonna charge me a fine that I can't pay too?

[Monarchy]

$950? Wtf

[davidsnk3]

Don't blame me- I didn't vote for the guy.

[Asian Lifter]

Originally Posted by davidsnk3

Don't blame me- I didn't vote for the guy.

exactly.

[DubV]

Seems like Obama is quickly ruining the country.

[DaYang]

the government knows whats best for you now just sit back and take it... :|

[repos]

dude . thats a good idea. America's probably getting raped in the ass by all the people with no insurance going to hospitals.lol. Just like auto insurance to protect u and the other guy from potentially enormous expenses. Insurance protects you and america from the potentially enormous expense.

[TheStiffmeister]

Originally Posted by davidsnk3

Don't blame me- I didn't vote for the guy.

same

[tcatcrawler]

Originally Posted by confidential_

dude . thats a good idea. America's probably getting raped in the ass by all the people with no insurance going to hospitals.lol. Just like auto insurance to protect u and the other guy from potentially enormous expenses. Insurance protects you and america from the potentially enormous expense.

driving is a privilege

living isnt

[DaBurg3r]

oh good maybe they can help me pay my other bills then, now if I could get a major tax break for getting health insurance (like enough of a tax break to pay for my coverage) I would sit down and start reviewing what options are available.

[Asian Lifter]

if they worried about insurance and costs of hospitals and ****, they do a lot with this reform bull****.

1) Include quarterly health assessments, or maybe yearly, and tax those who are unhealthy. they will be the one's going to the doctors more
2) Benefits for those who are healthy. Something like an incentive.
3) Free, government sponsored gyms. They want us to be healthy, walking in the park isn't exactly fun, and a lot of people who want to go to the gym can't afford a membership.
4) Somehow regulate food prices so healthier food is cheaper, and fatty foods are more expensive. Or base it off a nutrient rating or something.
5) This may seem harsh, but it needs to be done. Think twice about who's life they are saving. Sure it's great to save a life, but people who are on a dozen medications and **** are costing everyone a lot. Maybe those health assessments will come in handy with this. Save those who will be less of a liability.

These are just some random ideas. I've had some pretty good ideas before but can't remember them.

[JARED821]

Originally Posted by Asian Lifter

if they worried about insurance and costs of hospitals and ****, they do a lot with this reform bull****.

1) Include quarterly health assessments, or maybe yearly, and tax those who are unhealthy. they will be the one's going to the doctors more
2) Benefits for those who are healthy. Something like an incentive.
3) Free, government sponsored gyms. They want us to be healthy, walking in the park isn't exactly fun, and a lot of people who want to go to the gym can't afford a membership.
4) Somehow regulate food prices so healthier food is cheaper, and fatty foods are more expensive. Or base it off a nutrient rating or something.
5) This may seem harsh, but it needs to be done. Think twice about who's life they are saving. Sure it's great to save a life, but people who are on a dozen medications and **** are costing everyone a lot. Maybe those health assessments will come in handy with this. Save those who will be less of a liability.

These are just some random ideas. I've had some pretty good ideas before but can't remember them.

Not all bad ideas but as for #5, you'll only think that until your that person on a dozen medications

[jeffedge]

lulz@fining people that dont have money to begin with.

[Layziebones]

While I definetely do not agree with this, it really is stupid to not have health insurance. Althoug, I get it through work, so what do I know.

[DaYang]

Originally Posted by Asian Lifter

if they worried about insurance and costs of hospitals and ****, they do a lot with this reform bull****.

1) Include quarterly health assessments, or maybe yearly, and tax those who are unhealthy. they will be the one's going to the doctors more
2) Benefits for those who are healthy. Something like an incentive.
3) Free, government sponsored gyms. They want us to be healthy, walking in the park isn't exactly fun, and a lot of people who want to go to the gym can't afford a membership.
4) Somehow regulate food prices so healthier food is cheaper, and fatty foods are more expensive. Or base it off a nutrient rating or something.
5) This may seem harsh, but it needs to be done. Think twice about who's life they are saving. Sure it's great to save a life, but people who are on a dozen medications and **** are costing everyone a lot. Maybe those health assessments will come in handy with this. Save those who will be less of a liability.

These are just some random ideas. I've had some pretty good ideas before but can't remember them.

you couldnt have given a better example of why socialized healthcare is a horrible idea

[RiYelir]

I can haz health insurance?

Seriously though. I am barely scraping by as it is paying my way through school with the bills I already have. How exactly am I supposed to come up with another $80-$180(depending on what type of coverage is required in order to avoid a fine) a month? All I have heard about the bill being proposed is that the largest concession for the "people" will be the requirement of insurance companies to cover all people despite previous medical history. I see no mention if whether or not the companies will be allowed to charge $1000's of dollars a month to certain people of "higher risk", while at the same time the government is forcing them to either pay the insurance company or pay a fine. Sounds like we are still getting the shaft, and this new era of hope and change is just more of the same. Shoveling money into the hungry jaws of another big interest group.

[Winningest]

Dat dere insurance company lobbyists

[immuno]

I've been unemployed for over a year now. However, even though my income is 0, I am NOT applying for welfare, foodstamps, unemployment, etc.....

If I'm required to have health insurance in order to avoid a fine, guess who's going to apply for welfare, foodstamps, unemployment, etc....

No way am I going to take money I don't critically need....but also no way I'm going to take it in the ass either.

This "brilliant" "fine" idea (man, I despise bureaucrats) will end up backfiring in unreal ways.