tall cleans

[GoJu]

thought I'd post a vid of these, see how they look to you guys; 6 doubles @ 72kg they all felt light on the grip so I'm happy with that, let me know what you guys think

[madaozeki]

The focus of tall cleans should be speed under the bar, rather than getting the bar up really high. It looks like you're really trying to yank the bar up, rather than get yourself down. You should be able to do these (at this weight) with about an inch or 2 of motion downward before exploding, or even without any at all. Just set yourself, get the shoulders over the bar and the bar to anywhere between mid-thigh and waist height, and just explode up a couple of inches and boot yourself under it.

It might take a bit to get used to the idea, so working with 50-60kg should help at first.

You are definitely getting some decent pop on these, but remember that that's not the point of this particular exercise. Explode, bar goes to about belly button height, race under, rack fast with lightning elbow whip.

Just my 0.02

[GoJu]

thanks mezz, well I'm aware the tall clean is meant to be about drop under speed, I think the reason the bar is flying up is that its fairly light, I think once it gets heavier my drop under speed might increase, I'd like to work up to 80+kg on this exercise within a few weeks

[madaozeki]

Originally Posted by GoJu

thanks mezz, well I'm aware the tall clean is meant to be about drop under speed, I think the reason the bar is flying up is that its fairly light, I think once it gets heavier my drop under speed might increase, I'd like to work up to 80+kg on this exercise within a few weeks

That would be cool. It might be tough to get used to the speed increasing at heavier weights, though, without first "feeling" it at light weights. If you can get used to doing these with practically no movement whatsoever with 50kg, literally just drop like a rock under the bar, it'll feel more natural when you push the weight... the weight won't/can't fly up with light weight because you won't even be extending fully...

[ChadWilliam1]

You are cheating with those. The bar should move from a dead stop and drop underneath the bar. You are getting set then going lower and then pulling. You are cheating yourself for more room to pull.


The way I do tall cleans are much different. I sometimes do them with my shoulders pre-shrugged and on my toes. So It is the top of my extension so the only thing I have left is to get under the bar.

[skinnycalves]

Hey Goju you mind giving me one of those bars? Im going to ft. lauderdale tomorrow

[GoJu]

mezz - I can already do the movement with just dropping with 40, 50, and almost 60 but I do think cleans need height so I'm not overly concerned with the extra height, as I push the weights I'll also be able to 'drop under like a rock' with heavier weights as well

williams - I'm essentially trying to imitate this guy with the dip before pulling



if he's cheating as well with his dead hang /tall cleans @ 160kg that's fine by me

skinnycalves - ha, I would if I could man but they aren't mine; they belong to my coach, either way neither him or me live in fort lauderdale that's about an hour from us haha

[madaozeki]

He's pulling to slightly above belly button height.
You're pulling to low chest height.

He's using extra momentum because the weight is very heavy for him. You don't need the extra momentum with this weight because it's too light and you're pulling it far too high.

I'd love to see vids of your 40, 50 and 60 to see how high you're pulling. With this weight, you really are simply pulling far too much for the exercise to have any meaning to actually improve your clean. It's almost like you're working on pulling as high as possible to power clean it. If that's what you're going for, there are certainly better exercises to use, though!

If you can do it right with 60, and believe you can do it right when the weight gets heavy, then there's no reason why this weight can't be right, too, no?

[skinnycalves]

ill drive an extra-hour lol

ask him if he wants to sell, he cant possibly need all those bars for coaching at home. Also ask if he knows any good coaches in the southwest florida area or gainesville.

P.S. what kind of bars are they

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by skinnycalves

ill drive an extra-hour lol

ask him if he wants to sell, he cant possibly need all those bars for coaching at home. Also ask if he knows any good coaches in the southwest florida area or gainesville.

P.S. what kind of bars are they

lol, he's spent over 1000 dollars on bars/plates alone let alone referbishing his back porche into a mini weightlifting gym I doubt very much he'd sell anything after all the time spent to acquire it, he has 3 bars, he still trains and competes too, one is a werskan, one is a pendlay, the other is a thick 45lb bar same kind you'd fine in a gym but better quality

here's a listing of the team in florida, I think there are a couple in the gainesville/naples/orlando area:

http://floridaweightliftingfederatio...lubs_teams.htm

are you getting into weightlifting now?

mezz - I'm NOT trying to power clean it, the fact that it gets propelled to about chest height is because it is light, as the weight gets heavier I doubt it will get as much height no matter how much my hips kick it; I believe working soley with weights in the 50kg range will leave me weak (again, I've tried sticking to ridiculously light weights before and all it did was made me weaker); what I think I will do is continue progressing with these and then do extra work sets with light weights to solidify a better drop under but I think having a feel of heavy weights is important (just as important if not more so than the technique itself) so I don't want to lose that

[AusLifter06]

I feel you can benefit from these while still keeping it really light(40-70) if you are actually - pulling - under the bar properly.

I like warming up with them before power cleans/cleans as it helps reinforce that feel of pulling under the bar and warming up the bottom position for receiving.

[J.L.C.]

It's hard to get used to catching a low bar without actually catching a low bar. If you always work at catching above parallel it's going to be really tough to move under and catch a bar that only gets to belly button height.

You're pulling these to power clean height and really easing into the bottom position, that's not going to work with another 50kg on the bar.

It also looks like you're wedging the bar into the crook of your hips when you set up; since that doesn't happen on the full lift, I'm not sure it's going to be of much help.

[olyw8lifter]

Tall cleans should not get a kick on the bar when you start. At most the lift would start with toe raise and shrug, but don't lower the bar at all. Like everybody said, it doesn't matter that the weight is light (which you keep espousing), it is still being performed wrong for what you are wanting to achieve. You are basically doing a high hang clean and riding it down. That will do nothing to improve your speed under the bar. Again, just my 0.02.

[madaozeki]

Actually the amount of "kick", or "pull" can be proportionate to the amount of weight being used. Cleans from the high hang (not "tall cleans", which perhaps refers specifically to starting from the shrugged, up on toes position, which I never use) can start with dynamic rebound, like the guy in the video and like what you're trying to do, from mid-thigh, from waist height, from the dead hang, etc, but how you start should depend on how heavy the weight is and how much pop you really need.

To be honest, you should be able to do dead hang cleans with about 80% of your max clean, and with only 1-2 inches of pop over 90%.

Here's what I'm talking about. Sorry for the dark video quality. They're not close to perfect by any means, but bar height on each set is virtually identical.

And remember, the ONLY reason to do this exercise is to work on speed under the bar. If you're not receiving the bar low, then you're not working what you're supposed to be working. There's simply no other justification for it. In other words, don't keep adding weight until your speed improves, rather vary your start position so you can do them identically with ANY weight on the bar, up to your max clean weight or close to it.

I can do hang cleans with 1 inch of pop with over 90kg, just for reference. I haven't really done these with any sort of heavy weight in over 3 years.

[ChadWilliam1]

I find the best way to get faster at getting under the bar is by doing cleans w/o a hook grip. My coach makes me put my thumbs out as if I am trying to touch my body. The bar moves very slow and I lose a lot of my second pull. If I pull too hard the bar falls out of my hand. So I have to get down a lot faster.

Just a thought.

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by J.L.C.

It's hard to get used to catching a low bar without actually catching a low bar. If you always work at catching above parallel it's going to be really tough to move under and catch a bar that only gets to belly button height.

You're pulling these to power clean height and really easing into the bottom position, that's not going to work with another 50kg on the bar.

It also looks like you're wedging the bar into the crook of your hips when you set up; since that doesn't happen on the full lift, I'm not sure it's going to be of much help.

by that same token it's hard to lift heavy weights without actually lifting heavy weights....

I'd also imagine its a good thing that I won't be adding 50kg to the bar for some time, your not allowed to stop the bar's momentum and perform the lift from the hang or off blocks in competition but people do it in training anyway...

mada - I will take what you said and perform volume of lighter lifts trying to make them all look the same but I am going to keep my heavy sets as well, I've been doing this for too long with little progress in terms of overall weight lifted to just use 50kg exclusively, I don't think its too bad of a compromise, I'm not as concerned with making my form perfect ( I don't think there is such a thing) as I am adding weight to the bar

william - all of the 2nd reps in the vid where done without hook grip, I agree its somewhat easier to drop under without it; I will try and use your variation of on the toes with lighter sets

[madaozeki]

GoJu, by all means keep the heavy sets! I agree that you'll never get better without pushing the weight. Just try your best to make sure that the heavy sets look just like the light ones, and they'll be far more productive for you