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  1. #1
    Registered User ediss's Avatar
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    Jack3d DRUG TEST

    From what I read Jack3d is coming up on some drug tests as Amphetamines? I got a drug test for a job in the next 2 weeks, should I be worried?
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  2. #2
    Who is more side effects? th3_original's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ediss View Post
    From what I read Jack3d is coming up on some drug tests as Amphetamines? I got a drug test for a job in the next 2 weeks, should I be worried?
    Didn't come up on mine, and I had used it within 1 to 1 and 1/2 weeks of a drug screen.

    Chances are, amphetamines are coming up as amphetamines. Sounds like there's a bunch of JC Romero's running around.
    Originally Posted by c00ki3m0nst3r - ...I just want straight answear they do the same thing damage your liver your penis your body your change to have babies who is more side effects and who has more danger ?
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  3. #3
    Registered User ediss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by th3_original View Post
    Didn't come up on mine, and I had used it within 1 to 1 and 1/2 weeks of a drug screen.

    Chances are, amphetamines are coming up as amphetamines. Sounds like there's a bunch of JC Romero's running around.
    Yeah thats what I figured!

    Anyone else have any input?
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    Registered User ChoiBoi's Avatar
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    This a copy of an e-mail reply from a USPlabs rep concerning drug test for someone else.

    "First of all, I would just like to remind you that it is impossible for
    USPlabs to confidently assert USPlabs' product, Jack3d, was the source of
    your false positive. However, it is also equally impossible that Jack3d
    contains any banned and/or illegal substances. Jack3d does contain a common
    and legal stimulant extracted from the plant Geranium, known as "Geranamine"
    or chemically as 1,3-dimethylamine. While the molecular weights and
    structures of "amphetamine" and 1,3-dimethylamine are not identical, it is
    conceivable a very basic panel in conjunction with user error could arrive
    at a, 'false positive'."

    So basically it has a chance of making you test positive so to limit your hassle with the drug test simply stop taking Jack3d one week prior to the test. And I may be wrong but I believe it only takes amphetamine 12 hours to leave the system anyway but I may be wrong. So to be on the safe side, 1 week prior would be safe.
    "God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference"
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  5. #5
    Registered User gonna_be_big's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChoiBoi View Post
    This a copy of an e-mail reply from a USPlabs rep concerning drug test for someone else.

    "First of all, I would just like to remind you that it is impossible for
    USPlabs to confidently assert USPlabs' product, Jack3d, was the source of
    your false positive. However, it is also equally impossible that Jack3d
    contains any banned and/or illegal substances. Jack3d does contain a common
    and legal stimulant extracted from the plant Geranium, known as "Geranamine"
    or chemically as 1,3-dimethylamine. While the molecular weights and
    structures of "amphetamine" and 1,3-dimethylamine are not identical, it is
    conceivable a very basic panel in conjunction with user error could arrive
    at a, 'false positive'."

    So basically it has a chance of making you test positive so to limit your hassle with the drug test simply stop taking Jack3d one week prior to the test. And I may be wrong but I believe it only takes amphetamine 12 hours to leave the system anyway but I may be wrong. So to be on the safe side, 1 week prior would be safe.
    Patrick arnold commented and said it was impossible that the 1,3 dymeth was the cause of the positive result in the drug test.
    >>aussie supp misc family<<
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  6. #6
    Registered User ChoiBoi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gonna_be_big View Post
    Patrick arnold commented and said it was impossible that the 1,3 dymeth was the cause of the positive result in the drug test.
    Oh really? I personally would not know though to be honest. Just simply did a search on the forums for OP.
    "God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference"
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    Originally Posted by ChoiBoi View Post
    Oh really? I personally would not know though to be honest. Just simply did a search on the forums for OP.
    yeah if you read the same thread that you got the quote from it should be in there. both Beejis and Patrick Arnold said its impossible.
    >>aussie supp misc family<<
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  8. #8
    Registered User ChoiBoi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gonna_be_big View Post
    yeah if you read the same thread that you got the quote from it should be in there. both Beejis and Patrick Arnold said its impossible.
    Oh noes! Yeah did not read the whole thread. Thanks for clearing it up with me too :P

    Well here's the link OP
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ck3d+drug+test
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    Jack3d = positive amphetamines drug test

    YES W/ JACK3D YOU WILL GET A POSITIVE TEST FOR AMPHETAMINES IN A DRUG TEST........just to make it LOUD AND CLEAR AND CLEAR ALL DOUBT ..So ... im getting random drug testing because i'm in probation after 2 months of clean tests i tested positive for amphetamines and the day before i took jack3d little did i know ... the only other thing i was taking was n.o. explode but i never tested positive with that untill the guy at vitamin shoppe told me to try jack3ed because it was better and this and that and it was new and i told him i was on probation but he wouldnt let me leave the store untill i said yes and assured me he was gonna get no comission out of it so i took it home and tried it...two days later pissed in a cup one week later results show up positive for amphetamines.... now..., how do you explain that to the judge and the prosecution? ...
    Last edited by VINIVIDIVICI; 09-12-2009 at 11:09 AM.
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  10. #10
    Who is more side effects? th3_original's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VINIVIDIVICI View Post
    YES YOU WILL GET A POSITIVE TEST FOR AMPHETAMINES IN A DRUG TEST........just to make it LOUD AND CLEAR AND CLEAR ALL DOUBT ..So ... im getting random drug testing because i'm in probation after 2 months of clean tests i tested positive for amphetamines and the day before i took jack3d little did i know ... the only other thing i was taking was n.o. explode but i never tested positive with that untill the guy at vitamin shoppe told me to try jack3ed because it was better and this and that and it was new and i told him i was on probation but he wouldnt let me leave the store untill i said yes and assured me he was gonna get no comission out of it so i took it home and tried it...two days later pissed in a cup one week later results show up positive for amphetamines.... now..., how do you explain that to the judge and the prosecution? ...
    Stop using drugs.
    Originally Posted by c00ki3m0nst3r - ...I just want straight answear they do the same thing damage your liver your penis your body your change to have babies who is more side effects and who has more danger ?
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  11. #11
    Banned Supplement-Slut's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VINIVIDIVICI View Post
    YES W/ JACK3D YOU WILL GET A POSITIVE TEST FOR AMPHETAMINES IN A DRUG TEST........just to make it LOUD AND CLEAR AND CLEAR ALL DOUBT ..So ... im getting random drug testing because i'm in probation after 2 months of clean tests i tested positive for amphetamines and the day before i took jack3d little did i know ... the only other thing i was taking was n.o. explode but i never tested positive with that untill the guy at vitamin shoppe told me to try jack3ed because it was better and this and that and it was new and i told him i was on probation but he wouldnt let me leave the store untill i said yes and assured me he was gonna get no comission out of it so i took it home and tried it...two days later pissed in a cup one week later results show up positive for amphetamines.... now..., how do you explain that to the judge and the prosecution? ...
    lmao, How many usernames are you gonna create and keep telling this story??
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    Originally Posted by VINIVIDIVICI View Post
    YES W/ JACK3D YOU WILL GET A POSITIVE TEST FOR AMPHETAMINES IN A DRUG TEST........just to make it LOUD AND CLEAR AND CLEAR ALL DOUBT ..So ... im getting random drug testing because i'm in probation after 2 months of clean tests i tested positive for amphetamines and the day before i took jack3d little did i know ... the only other thing i was taking was n.o. explode but i never tested positive with that untill the guy at vitamin shoppe told me to try jack3ed because it was better and this and that and it was new and i told him i was on probation but he wouldnt let me leave the store untill i said yes and assured me he was gonna get no comission out of it so i took it home and tried it...two days later pissed in a cup one week later results show up positive for amphetamines.... now..., how do you explain that to the judge and the prosecution? ...
    Jack3d has a HUGE military/law enforcement following. Impossible to test positive, impossible.

    You can use Jack3d as your scapegoat but that is where it ends.
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  13. #13
    Registered User noobzor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by USPlabs View Post
    Jack3d has a HUGE military/law enforcement following. Impossible to test positive, impossible.

    You can use Jack3d as your scapegoat but that is where it ends.
    Exactly, i know a few people i work with that use it, and no one has been questioned about drug results.
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    Originally Posted by USPlabs View Post
    Jack3d has a HUGE military/law enforcement following. Impossible to test positive, impossible.

    You can use Jack3d as your scapegoat but that is where it ends.
    Firefighter following too.. I have given samples to alot of people at my station. Jack3d works awesome - but its def strong. 2 - 2.5 scoops gets me going for several hours.
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    Military right here. I've got a lot of my division taking it after I started taking it. And we get random piss tests ALL the time.
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    Originally Posted by CMillertime View Post
    Military right here. I've got a lot of my division taking it after I started taking it. And we get random piss tests ALL the time.
    Do they test in your unit also for steroids? Or just the basic drug test?
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    Originally Posted by VINIVIDIVICI View Post
    YES W/ JACK3D YOU WILL GET A POSITIVE TEST FOR AMPHETAMINES IN A DRUG TEST........just to make it LOUD AND CLEAR AND CLEAR ALL DOUBT ..So ... im getting random drug testing because i'm in probation after 2 months of clean tests i tested positive for amphetamines and the day before i took jack3d little did i know ... the only other thing i was taking was n.o. explode but i never tested positive with that untill the guy at vitamin shoppe told me to try jack3ed because it was better and this and that and it was new and i told him i was on probation but he wouldnt let me leave the store untill i said yes and assured me he was gonna get no comission out of it so i took it home and tried it...two days later pissed in a cup one week later results show up positive for amphetamines.... now..., how do you explain that to the judge and the prosecution? ...
    Just to kinda get this out there again:

    Casting thread resurrection in 1....

    I purposely ingested a 3 scoop serving of jacked on the 31st of August for a 10 panel drug test. I read so many times that people were testing positive for Amphetamines and downright BLAMING this supplement.

    Let's get something straight, an Amphetamine ADDICTION causes weight loss, severe, plain and simple. I'm 6'0 213 and can eat a horse in front of you if cooked right. Nobody would ever look at me on the street and go "geez cross the street, amphetamine head en route".

    I take 2 scoops of jack3d for my workouts, 5 nights a week, with 2 days in a row off of working out and jack3d. The 31st was a Tuesday, I work out Thurs-Mon night and take Tuesday and Wednesday off every week. I took jacked every night, Thurs-Mon and got called for the drug test on Tuesday.

    I've completely overhauled my life as far as eating and ingesting terrible ****, I drink PLENTY of water and piss like a race horse every few hours. I know you're not "supposed" to take jack3d for more than 5 days or whatever the case, but I'm aware of my body and I wanted to prove a point.

    "Amphetamines" are supposed to be in your body for something like 13 hours to 2 days. I'm not a doctor, I don't know. I took jack3d for FIVE DAYS STRAIGHT, 2 scoops in 1 cup of water. 40 minutes before my drug test, and holding ALL of my piss afterward, I took 3 scoops in a 1/4 cup of water..for added "zing".

    Test came back 150% clean. Employer called and said "Well, you haven't done "enough" drugs for us to disqualify you" jokingly which was funny, but nothing. 5 days and 1 extra holding my piss with 3 big scoops and nothing. Stop looking up that the strains are somewhat similar or whatever the case is and stop ****ing doing drugs.

    You're giving a good product a ****ty name, it's unbelievable the threads that opened up saying "omg, should I not take jack3d blah blah". Shut the **** up about all this drug testing nonsense, get a hold of your life and stop doing drugs. ****ing junkie.

    I apologize for the french, but don't bash the best pre I've used and scare people off it because you're a dopehead. /rant
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by sphinx13 View Post
    Just to kinda get this out there again:

    Casting thread resurrection in 1....

    I purposely ingested a 3 scoop serving of jacked on the 31st of August for a 10 panel drug test. I read so many times that people were testing positive for Amphetamines and downright BLAMING this supplement.

    Let's get something straight, an Amphetamine ADDICTION causes weight loss, severe, plain and simple. I'm 6'0 213 and can eat a horse in front of you if cooked right. Nobody would ever look at me on the street and go "geez cross the street, amphetamine head en route".

    I take 2 scoops of jack3d for my workouts, 5 nights a week, with 2 days in a row off of working out and jack3d. The 31st was a Tuesday, I work out Thurs-Mon night and take Tuesday and Wednesday off every week. I took jacked every night, Thurs-Mon and got called for the drug test on Tuesday.

    I've completely overhauled my life as far as eating and ingesting terrible ****, I drink PLENTY of water and piss like a race horse every few hours. I know you're not "supposed" to take jack3d for more than 5 days or whatever the case, but I'm aware of my body and I wanted to prove a point.

    "Amphetamines" are supposed to be in your body for something like 13 hours to 2 days. I'm not a doctor, I don't know. I took jack3d for FIVE DAYS STRAIGHT, 2 scoops in 1 cup of water. 40 minutes before my drug test, and holding ALL of my piss afterward, I took 3 scoops in a 1/4 cup of water..for added "zing".

    Test came back 150% clean. Employer called and said "Well, you haven't done "enough" drugs for us to disqualify you" jokingly which was funny, but nothing. 5 days and 1 extra holding my piss with 3 big scoops and nothing. Stop looking up that the strains are somewhat similar or whatever the case is and stop ****ing doing drugs.

    You're giving a good product a ****ty name, it's unbelievable the threads that opened up saying "omg, should I not take jack3d blah blah". Shut the **** up about all this drug testing nonsense, get a hold of your life and stop doing drugs. ****ing junkie.

    I apologize for the french, but don't bash the best pre I've used and scare people off it because you're a dopehead. /rant
    I like this ****. Good post man
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  19. #19
    Bulking to 180lb Tamper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sphinx13 View Post
    Just to kinda get this out there again:

    Casting thread resurrection in 1....

    I purposely ingested a 3 scoop serving of jacked on the 31st of August for a 10 panel drug test. I read so many times that people were testing positive for Amphetamines and downright BLAMING this supplement.

    Let's get something straight, an Amphetamine ADDICTION causes weight loss, severe, plain and simple. I'm 6'0 213 and can eat a horse in front of you if cooked right. Nobody would ever look at me on the street and go "geez cross the street, amphetamine head en route".

    I take 2 scoops of jack3d for my workouts, 5 nights a week, with 2 days in a row off of working out and jack3d. The 31st was a Tuesday, I work out Thurs-Mon night and take Tuesday and Wednesday off every week. I took jacked every night, Thurs-Mon and got called for the drug test on Tuesday.

    I've completely overhauled my life as far as eating and ingesting terrible ****, I drink PLENTY of water and piss like a race horse every few hours. I know you're not "supposed" to take jack3d for more than 5 days or whatever the case, but I'm aware of my body and I wanted to prove a point.

    "Amphetamines" are supposed to be in your body for something like 13 hours to 2 days. I'm not a doctor, I don't know. I took jack3d for FIVE DAYS STRAIGHT, 2 scoops in 1 cup of water. 40 minutes before my drug test, and holding ALL of my piss afterward, I took 3 scoops in a 1/4 cup of water..for added "zing".

    Test came back 150% clean. Employer called and said "Well, you haven't done "enough" drugs for us to disqualify you" jokingly which was funny, but nothing. 5 days and 1 extra holding my piss with 3 big scoops and nothing. Stop looking up that the strains are somewhat similar or whatever the case is and stop ****ing doing drugs.

    You're giving a good product a ****ty name, it's unbelievable the threads that opened up saying "omg, should I not take jack3d blah blah". Shut the **** up about all this drug testing nonsense, get a hold of your life and stop doing drugs. ****ing junkie.

    I apologize for the french, but don't bash the best pre I've used and scare people off it because you're a dopehead. /rant
    fu*cken repped man. spot on. anyone that bags this post is a fuc*en moron
    Datass
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  20. #20
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    Ive taken Black Cats that have the ingrediant in question the day of and days leading to the drug test and passed with flying colors.
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  21. #21
    Keeper O' the Blast Vitruvian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sphinx13 View Post
    Just to kinda get this out there again:

    Casting thread resurrection in 1....

    I purposely ingested a 3 scoop serving of jacked on the 31st of August for a 10 panel drug test. I read so many times that people were testing positive for Amphetamines and downright BLAMING this supplement.

    Let's get something straight, an Amphetamine ADDICTION causes weight loss, severe, plain and simple. I'm 6'0 213 and can eat a horse in front of you if cooked right. Nobody would ever look at me on the street and go "geez cross the street, amphetamine head en route".

    I take 2 scoops of jack3d for my workouts, 5 nights a week, with 2 days in a row off of working out and jack3d. The 31st was a Tuesday, I work out Thurs-Mon night and take Tuesday and Wednesday off every week. I took jacked every night, Thurs-Mon and got called for the drug test on Tuesday.

    I've completely overhauled my life as far as eating and ingesting terrible ****, I drink PLENTY of water and piss like a race horse every few hours. I know you're not "supposed" to take jack3d for more than 5 days or whatever the case, but I'm aware of my body and I wanted to prove a point.

    "Amphetamines" are supposed to be in your body for something like 13 hours to 2 days. I'm not a doctor, I don't know. I took jack3d for FIVE DAYS STRAIGHT, 2 scoops in 1 cup of water. 40 minutes before my drug test, and holding ALL of my piss afterward, I took 3 scoops in a 1/4 cup of water..for added "zing".

    Test came back 150% clean. Employer called and said "Well, you haven't done "enough" drugs for us to disqualify you" jokingly which was funny, but nothing. 5 days and 1 extra holding my piss with 3 big scoops and nothing. Stop looking up that the strains are somewhat similar or whatever the case is and stop ****ing doing drugs.

    You're giving a good product a ****ty name, it's unbelievable the threads that opened up saying "omg, should I not take jack3d blah blah". Shut the **** up about all this drug testing nonsense, get a hold of your life and stop doing drugs. ****ing junkie.

    I apologize for the french, but don't bash the best pre I've used and scare people off it because you're a dopehead. /rant
    Originally Posted by BobbyLight1 View Post
    I like this ****. Good post man
    Originally Posted by Tamper View Post
    fu*cken repped man. spot on. anyone that bags this post is a fuc*en moron
    Guys....

    1,3 Dimeth will come up positive on some testing, depending on what is being looked for. Do some searching on the recent minor league baseball players that were caught. Methylhexeanamine is banned by WADA.
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  22. #22
    Registered User Brosefski's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by USPlabs View Post
    Jack3d has a HUGE military/law enforcement following. Impossible to test positive, impossible.

    You can use Jack3d as your scapegoat but that is where it ends.
    I am now a believer in the blueprint, will give you better gains then any supplement and will last a lifetime - http://www.bodybuildingsupplements.com/testimonials.html

    [QUOTE=Ooface;457222761]NO one believes me when I say this, but I was taking Energized Xpand with t bomb2 for 8 weeks and I got gyno in my inner thigh.[/QUOTE]
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  23. #23
    protein boy geneticcode's Avatar
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    The last time I had a random, it was a couple hours after I jack3d. I tested negative.
    What is with these a$$hats blaming jack3d for their drug problem?
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  24. #24
    Keeper O' the Blast Vitruvian's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by geneticcode View Post
    The last time I had a random, it was a couple hours after I jack3d. I tested negative.
    What is with these a$$hats blaming jack3d for their drug problem?
    The blame goes to an ingredient, not necessarily the product itself.

    Lucky for you your testing wasn't subject to looking for this particular ingredient. To make a blanket statement that ANY product containing 1,3 dimeth will NOT cause a person to fail ANY test is an outright irresponsible lie.
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  25. #25
    Registered User sphinx13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vitruvian View Post
    Guys....

    1,3 Dimeth will come up positive on some testing, depending on what is being looked for. Do some searching on the recent minor league baseball players that were caught. Methylhexeanamine is banned by WADA.
    You're clearly not fully understanding my post. When you undergo a drug test for employment, be it a 5 panel or 10 panel test, the testing is SPECIFIC, period.

    I didn't say I play sports and just got an infinite panel test and came clean. There isn't a government agency or a probation officer alive on this planet performing drug tests with DOWN TO THE WIRE of solvents involved.

    With that said, a 5 panel or 10 panel drug test, which are ALL STANDARDIZED, there is no 10 panel different from another. A 10 panel drug test is as follows:

    Marijuana
    Cocaine
    Amphetamine
    Methamphetamine
    Phencyclidine
    Benzodiazepines
    Methadone
    Opiate
    Barbiturates
    Tricyclic Antidepressants

    That is the industry standard 10 panel drug test performed everywhere on earth. If you have concerns about a supplement and you play a sport, you obviously have to consult with the right parties to explain what's in jack3d and if it's not OK to ingest to be a part of said sport.

    Again, with that said, a 10 panel drug test for a Probation officer or an Employer will NOT YIELD A FALSE POSITIVE. A specifics test in sports MAY cause this as stated.
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  26. #26
    Keeper O' the Blast Vitruvian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sphinx13 View Post
    You're clearly not fully understanding my post. When you undergo a drug test for employment, be it a 5 panel or 10 panel test, the testing is SPECIFIC, period.

    I didn't say I play sports and just got an infinite panel test and came clean. There isn't a government agency or a probation officer alive on this planet performing drug tests with DOWN TO THE WIRE of solvents involved.

    With that said, a 5 panel or 10 panel drug test, which are ALL STANDARDIZED, there is no 10 panel different from another. A 10 panel drug test is as follows:

    Marijuana
    Cocaine
    Amphetamine
    Methamphetamine
    Phencyclidine
    Benzodiazepines
    Methadone
    Opiate
    Barbiturates
    Tricyclic Antidepressants

    That is the industry standard 10 panel drug test performed everywhere on earth. If you have concerns about a supplement and you play a sport, you obviously have to consult with the right parties to explain what's in jack3d and if it's not OK to ingest to be a part of said sport.

    Again, with that said, a 10 panel drug test for a Probation officer or an Employer will NOT YIELD A FALSE POSITIVE. A specifics test in sports MAY cause this as stated.
    .... And I was speaking in regards to the blanket statements that 1,3 cannot cause a person to fail a test. Your novel above is linguistically rich and compelling however.
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  27. #27
    Banned eljobber's Avatar
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    I am in the Army. I took Jack3d for 2 months straight, and took a urinalysis 7 weeks into it and did not piss hot.
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  28. #28
    Polski Bro mobikwa's Avatar
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    I also took 2 scoops before a scheduled drug test. Came back clean and got the job. Can't say what they tested for but still passed.
    Look under your chair. YOU GET A REP, AND YOU GET A REP, REPS FOR EVERYONE! If I get a rep, you get a rep, every time. Give me a link to make my life a little easier.

    If you don't give me a link and you didn't post in the thread you rep'd me in, I'm not gonna go searching for you. I'll get everyone on recharge.
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  29. #29
    Registered User cbtrill5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sphinx13 View Post
    You're clearly not fully understanding my post. When you undergo a drug test for employment, be it a 5 panel or 10 panel test, the testing is SPECIFIC, period.

    I didn't say I play sports and just got an infinite panel test and came clean. There isn't a government agency or a probation officer alive on this planet performing drug tests with DOWN TO THE WIRE of solvents involved.

    With that said, a 5 panel or 10 panel drug test, which are ALL STANDARDIZED, there is no 10 panel different from another. A 10 panel drug test is as follows:

    Marijuana
    Cocaine
    Amphetamine
    Methamphetamine
    Phencyclidine
    Benzodiazepines
    Methadone
    Opiate
    Barbiturates
    Tricyclic Antidepressants

    That is the industry standard 10 panel drug test performed everywhere on earth. If you have concerns about a supplement and you play a sport, you obviously have to consult with the right parties to explain what's in jack3d and if it's not OK to ingest to be a part of said sport.

    Again, with that said, a 10 panel drug test for a Probation officer or an Employer will NOT YIELD A FALSE POSITIVE. A specifics test in sports MAY cause this as stated.
    For a minute there I was starting to regret ordering Jack3d 2 days ago (should be in tomorrow). I'm on probation, and reading some of the posts above had me worried, until I actually looked at the people posting negative feedback. Being as this is my first time on the forums and I really don't know who is trusted here, I'm still going to notify my P.O. that I'm taking it to be on the safe side.

    On a positive note, looking forward to trying it out soon. I've seen a lot of positive threads about it.
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  30. #30
    Screw juice Brawndo89's Avatar
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    I used jack3d and tested positive for marijuana, heroin, and cocaine. Don't ever use this product.
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