Demasculinization!

[Ctrainer]

I subscribe to more e-mail newsletters from fitness celebrities than I can count..

Received an interesting one today from Phil Kaplan about a new radio show he has called "Manup!" In this show it talks about how current society is killing the traits of the alpha-male at very early ages...He also lists the 10 traits that women love that are contributing to this demasculinization...

I am curious to get the OV35s' take on this...Is society killing the alpha-male and leaving us with men who manscape and say "splendid"....?????

[kgartin]

Don't know about the "manscaping" thing but DEFINITELY YES!!! Society, for some reason, LOATHES a strong man's man these days. It makes me SICK! Most of those in the lime-light (actors etc) are pale little pansies with porcelain little whispy bodies. Carrying MURSES (man-purses) and getting manicures. "Men" who won't take a stand unless it's for a flippin' tree!

Pathetic!!!!


But, I will say that I DO NOT believe that what hollywood portrays is an accurate cross-section of actual society. The media is slanted towards liberalism and demasculinization but they're just the squeaky wheel that seems to get the attention.

[cozener]

I subscribe to more e-mail newsletters from fitness celebrities than I can count..

Received an interesting one today from Phil Kaplan about a new radio show he has called "Manup!" In this show it talks about how current society is killing the traits of the alpha-male at very early ages...He also lists the 10 traits that women love that are contributing to this demasculinization...

I am curious to get the OV35s' take on this...Is society killing the alpha-male and leaving us with men who manscape and say "splendid"....?????

What are these 10 traits?

I agree with him to a certain extent though. It seems that women do want men to be different these days than they used to. But some of the things we're talking about aren't necessarily about being a man as much as being an %#$hole.

BTW...we are in such treacherous waters with this topic that I'm ordering the crew to get the lifeboats ready.

[dbx]

I am curious to get the OV35s' take on this...Is society killing the alpha-male and leaving us with men who manscape and say "splendid"....?????

Absofreakinlutely. And yes, it is a result of underlying progressive/liberal policies. I agree with some of the changes, but the end result is unfortunate, nonetheless.

[Ctrainer]

BTW...we are in such treacherous waters with this topic that I'm ordering the crew to get the lifeboats ready.

I know!! This is very controversial...there is a fine line between being " a real man" and being a pr*ck...BUT in nature there is a heirarchy and there is a food chain...and when you look at animals...the sexes have their roles....

[Fifty+]

I subscribe to more e-mail newsletters from fitness celebrities than I can count..

Received an interesting one today from Phil Kaplan about a new radio show he has called "Manup!" In this show it talks about how current society is killing the traits of the alpha-male at very early ages...He also lists the 10 traits that women love that are contributing to this demasculinization...

I am curious to get the OV35s' take on this...Is society killing the alpha-male and leaving us with men who manscape and say "splendid"....?????

How does this relate to this forum?

[Old_swole]

Absofreakinlutely. And yes, it is a result of underlying progressive/liberal policies. I agree with some of the changes, but the end result is unfortunate, nonetheless.

^^This many times over. It's just like now when little kids play a sport they are taught that BOTH teams win. sorry in my world one team wins and one team loses which again in my world makes the losing team strive to do BETTER. "Better" being a key word here.

[cozener]

I know!! This is very controversial...there is a fine line between being " a real man" and being a pr*ck...BUT in nature there is a heirarchy and there is a food chain...and when you look at animals...the sexes have their roles....

True. I think a lot of people want it both ways...men and women. Women want men to be sensitive but not "too" sensitive. Men want women to be madonnas and magdalenes at the same time. Women want men to be chivalric but don't want the Medieval opinions of women that come along with it. Men say they want women to be independent but don't like the idea of them being as sexually liberated as men have been.

[Old_swole]

How does this relate to this forum?

Actually it has more to do with this forum then some guy trying to sell t-shirts (and that happens all the time here). but I do know what your saying.

[Ctrainer]

How does this relate to this forum?

That is a great question..

1. The men in this section are older and have seen changes themselves through the generations...our fathers come from a different era where women did not work as much as they do now and stayed home. Different society now..they have seen the parenting variations..

2.The men in this section believe in looking like men, strong, powerful..present company included...

3. The men in this section constantly go toe to toe with each other about various topics, not afraid to jump into a pissing match about darn near anything...

If anyone would feel that society is changing the male role..it would be right here...

Why do lift, Why do you want to be bigger, stronger...Don't tell me it is just for your health..jog if that's the case....

[x-trainer ben]

I subscribe to more e-mail newsletters from fitness celebrities than I can count..

Received an interesting one today from Phil Kaplan about a new radio show he has called "Manup!" In this show it talks about how current society is killing the traits of the alpha-male at very early ages...He also lists the 10 traits that women love that are contributing to this demasculinization...

I am curious to get the OV35s' take on this...Is society killing the alpha-male and leaving us with men who manscape and say "splendid"....?????

It is in NO WAY about politics at all, but about how you were raised and whether or not you like other people or your selfish. The list of 10 would be most helpful though to give enlightened commentary.

At a family reunion(march), the over 60 men, told me it used to be manly to drink and drive(1960's). Now you can end up in jail and loose your drivers lic.
Is it less manly to NOT drink and drive?

[cozener]

What were Phil's 10 points?

btw...anybody ever watch Mad Men?

[hochspeyer]

If you don't believe that its happening, just look at television. In commercials, the woman is always smarter than the man, the kids are always wiser, and men just can't seem to do anything right. Woman can do anything by themselves, while men always need a woman to find the solution to a problem. Sitcoms tend to marginalize men and make them out to be indecisive clods, and even in drama, strong men are often characterized as barbarians.

Its nothing new- its been going on for decades in America.

[dbx]

If you don't believe that its happening, just look at television. In commercials, the woman is always smarter than the man, the kids are always wiser, and men just can't seem to do anything right. Woman can do anything by themselves, while men always need a woman to find the solution to a problem. Sitcoms tend to marginalize men and make them out to be indecisive clods, and even in drama, strong men are often characterized as barbarians.

Its nothing new- its been going on for decades in America.

Why don't you say what you really wanted to say, and what I decided to omit from my post?

[bustasinclair]

Why don't you say what you really wanted to say, and what I decided to omit from my post?

I need a hug...........

[KLMARB]

..or the perpetuation of adolescent or preadolescent traits into what should be adulthood. It goes for both men and women, its more a destruction of the family unit, in order to create more dependance on the State, since it causes people to look to the government/leaders as their parents, rather than to mature into free and independant adults able to operate in their own (and their family's) self-interest.

[cozener]

If you don't believe that its happening, just look at television. In commercials, the woman is always smarter than the man, the kids are always wiser, and men just can't seem to do anything right. Woman can do anything by themselves, while men always need a woman to find the solution to a problem. Sitcoms tend to marginalize men and make them out to be indecisive clods, and even in drama, strong men are often characterized as barbarians.

Its nothing new- its been going on for decades in America.

I've noticed that with family oriented sitcoms too. The husband is always an overweight, socially inept moron thats just oh so lucky to be married to this smart, savvy, hot woman. But then, I seem to remember June Cleaver outwitting Ward once or twice. As a matter of fact, Lucy sometimes got one up on Ricky and that dude was a freakin' genius.

[Ctrainer]

but here is a link to the radio show...he talks to bodybuilder Viggo Snowhill and various other "experts".

http://manupradioshow.com/

He also has a survey on there...UH OH!!

[Old_swole]

..or the perpetuation of adolescent or preadolescent traits into what should be adulthood. It goes for both men and women, its more a destruction of the family unit, in order to create more dependance on the State, since it causes people to look to the government/leaders as their parents, rather than to mature into free and independant adults able to operate in their own (and their family's) self-interest.

Wait dont we need the Ogovernment in every facet of our lives?

[Fifty+]

That is a great question..

1. The men in this section are older and have seen changes themselves through the generations...our fathers come from a different era where women did not work as much as they do now and stayed home. Different society now..they have seen the parenting variations..

2.The men in this section believe in looking like men, strong, powerful..present company included...

3. The men in this section constantly go toe to toe with each other about various topics, not afraid to jump into a pissing match about darn near anything...

If anyone would feel that society is changing the male role..it would be right here...

Why do lift, Why do you want to be bigger, stronger...Don't tell me it is just for your health..jog if that's the case....

9 out of 10 people you ask will tell you society is changing and it has nothing to do with this specific forum. Unfortunately, the same 9 out of 10 people will not be able to define "society". It's a general misc. question that has nothing to do with bodybuilding or fitness.

My lifting is personal and has nothing to do with society. I satisfy my own challanges which in turn maintains my healthy ego. And by the way, it is healthy.

[dbx]

I've noticed that with family oriented sitcoms too.

Everything he cited has been discussed before. It's not just perception, it's documented and clearly present facts in different media. In other words, there's been articles done on this very subject many times in recent years.

[cozener]

From the site...

* Has the courage to stand up for what is right - although it may not be popular.
* Feels conformable NOT having all the answers, but will not go along with popular views to artificially create popular answers.
* Will not sell out to political correctness and explore the true dynamics of men and women.
* Has the foresight and discipline to celebrate gender differences, advance humanity, while promoting spiritual and civil equalities.
* Has the wisdom to logically analyze the social phenomena of the last 5 decades and make the hard choices needed to restore your proper place in society.
* Is open-minded.
* Is strong.

At the risk of appearing somewhat less than an alpha male...why would these be considered solely masculine traits? An alpha is an alpha...male or female.

Or are these points what we're talking about?

[Karl_Hungus]

Don't know about the "manscaping" thing but DEFINITELY YES!!! Society, for some reason, LOATHES a strong man's man these days. It makes me SICK! Most of those in the lime-light (actors etc) are pale little pansies with porcelain little whispy bodies. Carrying MURSES (man-purses) and getting manicures. "Men" who won't take a stand unless it's for a flippin' tree!

Pathetic!!!!

Are you trying to tell me that actors like Orlando Bloom, Jude Law, and Hugh Grant are less masculine than the likes of Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, and Jack Palance?

[Ctrainer]

My lifting is personal and has nothing to do with society. I satisfy my own challanges which in turn maintains my healthy ego. And by the way, it is healthy.

You are correct...your lifting is personal and as you said..feeds your ego...your MALE ego!!
I think it has everything to do with bodybuilding...Do you think you are the norm today???
Because I saw your pics dude...you are FAR from the norm...that is what this is all about...

[bamazav]

This is an intereseting topic. The demasculinization of society entered when the idea of the collective society began to be acceptted, not too long after WWII. The family structure began to be torn down as the "It takes a village" mentality began to grow. The traditional structure, even with its warts, recognized the roles of men and women and, in my opinion, lifts them up. The now prominent collective/liberal/enlightened view point presents, not a higher view of men and women, but a lower view.

Just my quick 2 cents worth.

[TheLBM]

I am curious to get the OV35s' take on this...Is society killing the alpha-male and leaving us with men who manscape and say "splendid"....?????

I manscape ( I thnik,, if it means what i think it means)
Dont think that makes me a pussy

[Ctrainer]

From the site...

* Has the courage to stand up for what is right - although it may not be popular.
* Feels conformable NOT having all the answers, but will not go along with popular views to artificially create popular answers.
* Will not sell out to political correctness and explore the true dynamics of men and women.
* Has the foresight and discipline to celebrate gender differences, advance humanity, while promoting spiritual and civil equalities.
* Has the wisdom to logically analyze the social phenomena of the last 5 decades and make the hard choices needed to restore your proper place in society.
* Is open-minded.
* Is strong.

At the risk of appearing somewhat less than an alpha male...why would these be considered solely masculine traits? An alpha is an alpha...male or female.

Or are these points what we're talking about?

I go back to nature on this...the female only challenges the male in defense of the young...
but in the herd, group, pride whatever..she knows her place and doesn't disturb the balance of the group...it is about balance...like in the military...everyone has their role/job and if you step out of that..something bad usually happens...

[Deborah_Lyn]

^^This many times over. It's just like now when little kids play a sport they are taught that BOTH teams win. sorry in my world one team wins and one team loses which again in my world makes the losing team strive to do BETTER. "Better" being a key word here.

This drives me nuts. Everyone's a winner and therefore, no one wins...

This topic by the OP hints at what I read the other day about the top 4 kids that scored a perfect 2400 on their SAT. They were all the same race. It is cultural (imo) due to social mores and we blindly ignore it. Social engineering ftl!

I don't blame feminism per se, in terms of men losing identity. But I think putting 1/4 of our kids in drugs because they are normal boys is crazy. ugh. Hopefully, society will snap back once we hit a saturation point.


hochspeyer - those commericals are bad imo. They need to focus more on the fmaily unit and not play smart/dumb based on gender.

[cozener]

Are you trying to tell me that actors like Orlando Bloom, Jude Law, and Hugh Grant are less masculine than the likes of Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, and Jack Palance?

Naaaa! Nobody's saying anything that crazy.

Hey...notice how Orlando, Jude, and Hugh are all Brits and Clint, John, and Jack are all American? Hmmm...could there be a perception that British men are less masculine than their American cousins? Must be the accent. And its gotta be hard to sound masculine when you're asking somebody if they take one lump or two and if they'd like a crumpet with that spot of tea.

I don't blame feminism per se, in terms of men losing identity. But I think putting 1/4 of our kids in drugs because they are normal boys is crazy. ugh. Hopefully, society will snap back once we hit a saturation point.

We'll snap out of it real quick when the barbarians are at the gates...

[GnomusMaximus]

Hell ya!!! Every time I burp or fart people want me to apologize. I see guys walking around with Lattes (sp) and they're selling Mocha stuff at McDonalds. F'n Starbucks, who the hell came up with that... Everyone always wanting me to "Express my feelings". If I truly express my feelings somethings gonna get broken. Someone once said I needed "sensitivity training". I figured the best way was to watch the Lifetime Network. I liked it, lots of hot broads on those shows. Kept having to turn the sound down because of all the talking they were doing.