10 Reasons why I'm not a christian.

[6Pax]

Has anyone provided a proof of God?s inexistence?
Not even close.
(But theres no proof of his existence either)

Has quantum cosmology explained the emergence of the universe or why it is here?
Not even close.
(Nope, so the most logical explanation is that its a "loving", yet mean immature god who gives no evidence of his existence, yet punishes the intelligent, skeptical individuals)

Have the sciences explained why our universe seems to be fine-tuned to allow for the existence of life?
Not even close.
(Were here aren't we?)

Are physicists and biologists willing to believe in anything so long as it is not religious thought?
Close enough.
(Now whose being close minded and ignorant)

Has rationalism in moral thought provided us with an understanding of what is good, what is right, and what is moral?
Not close enough.
(Neither has the bible)

Has secularism in the terrible twentieth century been a force for good?
Not even close to being close.
(We don't really have a secular government do we?)

Is there a narrow and oppressive orthodoxy of thought and opinion within the sciences?
Close enough.
(Really giving these responses some thought, huh?)

Does anything in the sciences or in their philosophy justify the claim that religious belief is irrational?
Not even ballpark.
(Your right, the universe could really be 9000 years old, women may very well have emerged from a mans rib, and there probably really is a (non)intervening deity floating in the clouds. You don't need science to know thats irrational.

Btw I like to describe myself as an agnostic-atheist, in that I don't believe in a personal god, but a higher power isn't out of the realm of possibility.

[Jay Rawd]

... you forgot that the Christian god is both logically inconsistent and recycled from previous deities much older then Christiandom.

Nope.

[Jay Rawd]

I love how atheist posts are always interspersed with personal opinions about Yahweh. Really shows you that the true depth of their "lack of belief" is just arguments from outrage and disbelief, two largely illogical modes of thought.

At the end of the day, atheists say "well fine we may not know how the universe got here but it sure wasn't done by some crybaby tyrant who hates me because im so smart!"

[Jay Rawd]

Probability & logical deduction, make it unlikely that your god exists.

Therefore we can say, just short of 100%, that your god does not exist.

Explain. Oh please do explain.

[Jay Rawd]

Before asking for evidence for the non-existance of a god, evidence for it must be provided. Claims should always be proven to be true before they are taken as fact and counter evidence is asked for. Asking for evidence against God is completely illogical.


And if your idea of God does not fit into the physical sciences, i.e. observing the world to find out about it, then what relevance does he/it have to our lives?

Ok, then people should discuss whether the Resurrection of Jesus happened. Because if that is disproven, then automatically Christianity goes out the window.

For me, the evidence is too compelling in favor of Jesus rising from the dead.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delp...evidence7.html

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billc...ocs/tomb2.html

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/hallucn.html

http://www.tektonics.org/guest/wildvis.html

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billc...ocs/guard.html

[pikeamus]

I love how atheist posts are always interspersed with personal opinions about Yahweh. Really shows you that the true depth of their "lack of belief" is just arguments from outrage and disbelief, two largely illogical modes of thought.

At the end of the day, atheists say "well fine we may not know how the universe got here but it sure wasn't done by some crybaby tyrant who hates me because im so smart!"

Strong bump. Care to demonstrate your points by pointing out examples in the OP?

[jf1]

Ok, then people should discuss whether the Resurrection of Jesus happened. Because if that is disproven, then automatically Christianity goes out the window.

For me, the evidence is too compelling in favor of Jesus rising from the dead.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delp...evidence7.html

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billc...ocs/tomb2.html

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/hallucn.html

http://www.tektonics.org/guest/wildvis.html

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billc...ocs/guard.html

please, please start a new thread and present your compelling evidence.
(not a bunch of links)

[Geese_Howard]

I love how atheist posts are always interspersed with personal opinions about Yahweh. Really shows you that the true depth of their "lack of belief" is just arguments from outrage and disbelief, two largely illogical modes of thought.

At the end of the day, atheists say "well fine we may not know how the universe got here but it sure wasn't done by some crybaby tyrant who hates me because im so smart!"

Being able to understand facts does not make one particularly smart.

Choosing to ignore the facts does make one stupid though.

[Geese_Howard]

Ok, then people should discuss whether the Resurrection of Jesus happened. Because if that is disproven, then automatically Christianity goes out the window.

For me, the evidence is too compelling in favor of Jesus rising from the dead.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delp...evidence7.html

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billc...ocs/tomb2.html

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/hallucn.html

http://www.tektonics.org/guest/wildvis.html

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billc...ocs/guard.html

None of that crap is evidence champ.

Evidence would be eyewitness accounts from multiple people, written, recorded and verified by others. it could also take the form of jesus appearing anywhere on the planet from the time of his death until now.

All your links present nothing but hearsay and suggestion. That is not evidence.

[Whoda]

Man i love Jesus, arent u guys glad God is good

sure am, AMEN!

Congratulations to all who choose not to believe. Enjoy your afterlife.

Ooops, I forgot, you are not able to choose for yourself. I guess then it just sucks to be you.

Explain. Oh please do explain.

John 15:18-19 If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Luke 6:22-23 Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, revile you, and cast out your name as evil For the Son of Man?s sake. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven

JOhn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.

Keep up the work guys. Even if you affect only one person positively in the case for Jesus' love, that makes all the difference in the world. Jesus has his people where he needs them.

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth

on another note, heres a powerful motivation quote for me:

"While Jesus is pleading for the subjects of His grace, Satan accuses them before God as transgressors. The great deceiver has sought to lead them into skepticism, to cause them to lose confidence in God, to separate themselves from His love, and to break His law. Now he points to the record of their lives, to the defects of character, the unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer, to all the sins that he has tempted them to commit, and because of these he claims them as his subject. Jesus does not excuse their sins, but shows their penitence and faith, and, claiming for them forgiveness, He lifts His wounded hands before the Father and the holy angels, saying: I know them by name. I have graven them on the palms of My hands."

[Geese_Howard]

Jesus has his people where he needs them.

How the hell do you know this? Did jesus tell you?
Tell us when was the last time you had communication with jesus?

[evedder08]

It's called faith for a reason.
Don't need proof.
Doesn't have to make sense.
It's faith.

[ThundaHawk]

You keep asking this like it has some sort of relevance to the argument at hand.
They have no atomic weight, they are not atoms.
They have no molecular structure, they are not molecules.
They have no smell, they are not physical.
They have no color, they are not physical.
They have no sound, they are not physical.

There, I answered those ridiculous and (seemingly) pointless questions.

GG lol.

[ThundaHawk]

No anger, just being blunt when dealing with the presumptuosly ignorant.

Speaking of presumptuously ignorant, why don't you take a crack at answering the point:
"Where does GOOD, EVIL, JUSTICE, etc., fit into your "current paradigm"? What is their atomic weight?, molecular structure?, what do they smell like?, what color are they? what do they sound like?"

Does trying to answer it make your head hurt and make you angry?

This is so stupid and irrelevant it hurts.

I know what you're suggesting-- that moral concepts of right and wrong are the exclusive export of religions and those good folk who follow them-- but if you stopped for a second to think you'd realize how idiotic you've been. Everyone from the highest paragon of virtue to the lowest beggar and theif has their own notions of right and wrong.

When these ideas (ideas, in case you didn't know, have no smell, color, sound, or.... yeah... you're stupid for even bringing it up) intersect between people that has less to do with gods and more to do with people realizing or subscribing to virtues they can agree on.

People in lawful society can generally agree that it's wrong (re: evil, immoral) to take a life for no reason because they themselves value life and do not wish their lives to be taken for no reason. Believe it or not (you won't), people can agree that murder is Wrong because they value life. It's a reasoned and logical system of beliefs. It's not a magical, invisible character in a man-made book told them that it was wrong. It's because, deep down, they know it's wrong.

[Jay Rawd]

None of that crap is evidence champ.

Except that...

Evidence would be eyewitness accounts from multiple people, written, recorded and verified by others. it could also take the form of jesus appearing anywhere on the planet from the time of his death until now.

...that is exactly what we have, "champ." Smug little comments sure make one feel like they win an argument, don't they?

All your links present nothing but hearsay and suggestion. That is not evidence.

o i c. The only evidence you would accept is Jesus appearing to YOU personally. I see that God has to submit to the creation now.

Actually this is evidence, just like the kind found in a court of law. It's called deductive reasoniong, with the Resurrection being the only thing that can explain the survival of early Christianity. All other explanations as to WHY Christianity exists are rather silly when subject to scrutiny and understanding of the Middle Eastern context it grew out of.

[Jay Rawd]

This is so stupid and irrelevant it hurts.

I know what you're suggesting-- that moral concepts of right and wrong are the exclusive export of religions and those good folk who follow them-- but if you stopped for a second to think you'd realize how idiotic you've been. Everyone from the highest paragon of virtue to the lowest beggar and theif has their own notions of right and wrong.

When these ideas (ideas, in case you didn't know, have no smell, color, sound, or.... yeah... you're stupid for even bringing it up) intersect between people that has less to do with gods and more to do with people realizing or subscribing to virtues they can agree on.

People in lawful society can generally agree that it's wrong (re: evil, immoral) to take a life for no reason because they themselves value life and do not wish their lives to be taken for no reason. Believe it or not (you won't), people can agree that murder is Wrong because they value life. It's a reasoned and logical system of beliefs. It's not a magical, invisible character in a man-made book told them that it was wrong. It's because, deep down, they know it's wrong.

Not really. If there is no God, I could theoretically kill you and no one would think it's wrong if I can convince them you deserved to die, OR if I just kill all opposition. Then, nobody will have proven me wrong because of the mob rule mentality that godless "morality" operates under.

[Jay Rawd]

How the hell do you know this? Did jesus tell you?
Tell us when was the last time you had communication with jesus?

Come on, at least understand Christianity before you attack it.

God communicates with EVERYONE through his WRITTEN word, which has EVERYTHING we need to know about Him and His will.

This is too easy.

[Jay Rawd]

It's called faith for a reason.
Don't need proof.
Doesn't have to make sense.
It's faith.

Except that the Greek word for faith used in the NT, pistis means loyalty, not mere acceptance of claims when held under scrutiny.

[ThundaHawk]

Not really. If there is no God, I could theoretically kill you and no one would think it's wrong if I can convince them you deserved to die, OR if I just kill all opposition. Then, nobody will have proven me wrong because of the mob rule mentality that godless "morality" operates under.

Has nothing to do with God or you religion, either.

I could theoretically kill you and no one would think it's wrong if I can convince them God wanted you to die, OR if I just kill all opposition. Then, nobody will have proven me wrong because everyone would either be

a) convinced that it was "god's will" that you were in violation of and that you therefore deserved the death you were dealt, sinner

b) everyone would be dead so it wouldn't matter to them anyway

also

c) I'd be justified in my own mind, since I did mental gymnastics to rationalize why my "god" would want you removed from the world in the first place

.[/QUOTE]

[ThundaHawk]

Come on, at least understand Christianity before you attack it.

God communicates with EVERYONE through his WRITTEN word, which has EVERYTHING we need to know about Him and His will.

This is too easy.

Except he didn't write it. PEOPLE wrote it. And not just one person, but several people (many of which present conflicting, contradictory accounts). Have you ever played broken telephone? Purple monkey dishwasher.

[Mr Beer]

Not really. If there is no God, I could theoretically kill you and no one would think it's wrong if I can convince them you deserved to die, OR if I just kill all opposition. Then, nobody will have proven me wrong because of the mob rule mentality that godless "morality" operates under.

Except that every civilised country in the world deals with murder through a secular criminal justice system and not by discussion about how God would feel about it.

[ThundaHawk]

Except that every civilised country in the world deals with murder through a secular criminal justice system and not by discussion about how God would feel about it.

in b4 "but they swear on the bible"