Americans, how do you feel about immigration?

[anonymous]

standing in line at the grocery store tonight I got stuck behind a couple paying for a mountain of junk food for their 7 ninos with tax dollars on their EBT. As it was the only register open I had some time to grumble to myself about the disparity of American immigration, and how my best friend had to walk away from a high paying job because his Canadian wife (with a degree from the best school in Ontario) wasn't permitted to work in the US.

Then it struck me, to most Americans I, and my friend, represent more of a real threat than the baby factory in front of me. Sure, we might pay taxes, speak the language, be mostly law abiding (who wants to wait a decade for a visa just to be deported over a minor crime?) - but we ARE stealing your jobs. Middle class, management, IT jobs especially. We might not cost hundreds of billions a year in medical and schooling, but we do prevent qualified US professionals from taking a place that in a more protectionist country would be theirs.

So I figured I'd ask the mostly conservative r&p audience how they feel about immigrants from Canada, UK, europe. I don't include ethnocentic groups who make no effort to assimilate or come to play the system, I mean the guys who really are stealing your jobs by working here.

Should Obama do something to close those borders?

[14kRPM]

standing in line at the grocery store tonight I got stuck behind a couple paying for a mountain of junk food for their 7 ninos with tax dollars on their EBT. As it was the only register open I had some time to grumble to myself about the disparity of American immigration, and how my best friend had to walk away from a high paying job because his Canadian wife (with a degree from the best school in Ontario) wasn't permitted to work in the US.

Then it struck me, to most Americans I, and my friend, represent more of a real threat than the baby factory in front of me. Sure, we might pay taxes, speak the language, be mostly law abiding (who wants to wait a decade for a visa just to be deported over a minor crime?) - but we ARE stealing your jobs. Middle class, management, IT jobs especially. We might not cost hundreds of billions a year in medical and schooling, but we do prevent qualified US professionals from taking a place that in a more protectionist country would be theirs.

So I figured I'd ask the mostly conservative r&p audience how they feel about immigrants from Canada, UK, europe. I don't include ethnocentic groups who make no effort to assimilate or come to play the system, I mean the guys who really are stealing your jobs by working here.

Should Obama do something to close those borders?

Americans and Canadians ARE immigrants from Europe. It is not "them and they", it is "us and our".
We are on the same team and thus can not steal each others jobs. That's nonsense.
We're related by blood and thus more compatible with one another.

[...Rousseau...]

I'm not mad at the immigrants as much as I'm mad at the politicians for not stopping the invasion, but still, damn, stop having so many kids.

[Zordon]

[lightningwatche]

I'm not socially conservative.
I say let the immigrants come in droves. But they need to learn english and should not get any tax payer assistance. They can put their kids in our schools if they pay enough taxes, or if they do 10 hours a week of community service.

As for illegal mexicans, I say make them do lots of community service over the next 6 years, so the legal immigrants are not so jealous. I see no need to deport people.

[Vitalshok44]

standing in line at the grocery store tonight I got stuck behind a couple paying for a mountain of junk food for their 7 ninos with tax dollars on their EBT. As it was the only register open I had some time to grumble to myself about the disparity of American immigration, and how my best friend had to walk away from a high paying job because his Canadian wife (with a degree from the best school in Ontario) wasn't permitted to work in the US.

Then it struck me, to most Americans I, and my friend, represent more of a real threat than the baby factory in front of me. Sure, we might pay taxes, speak the language, be mostly law abiding (who wants to wait a decade for a visa just to be deported over a minor crime?) - but we ARE stealing your jobs. Middle class, management, IT jobs especially. We might not cost hundreds of billions a year in medical and schooling, but we do prevent qualified US professionals from taking a place that in a more protectionist country would be theirs.

So I figured I'd ask the mostly conservative r&p audience how they feel about immigrants from Canada, UK, europe. I don't include ethnocentic groups who make no effort to assimilate or come to play the system, I mean the guys who really are stealing your jobs by working here.

Should Obama do something to close those borders?

I am not upset with people like you in the slightest, you obey the laws followed the rules and as a hole improved the society, why would anyone have a problem with that?

Now the drainer baby makers on the other hand, there's plenty to not like there.

[Jatt_builder]

I wonder about that myself sometimes, though I have less guilt to deal with, considering my field.
Still, you should have included Indians, Punjabis, Japanese too. Most of them are productive, do not cost America anything. Pay their taxes, tuitions, believe that citizenship is the biggest prize they can get. Many from India are mainly in for jobs and other prospects, but I have come across lots of North Indians, who with time see America as their real country as their new culture. They integrate pretty well. Most of them live well within white suburban neighborhoods and so on.

Our wannabe Viking brother in this thread may not like this, but supposedly Indians in America are now the most successful group in America. Even though some have Hindu nationalistic problems, but even with most of them, their next generation is all about being an educated, dedicated American.

[JMath]

Americans and Canadians ARE immigrants from Europe. It is not "them and they", it is "us and our".
We are on the same team and thus can not steal each others jobs. That's nonsense.
We're related by blood and thus more compatible with one another.

So a person that comes to the US from Canada, or Europe can not take a job away from an American citizen, but a person that comes from Mexico can? What is with the "same team" thing too? Unless I am reading this wrong, this sounds ridiculous.

OP, I am not worried about ANY immigrants taking our jobs. If you're more qualified than me, you deserve the job. I am with the other person though that said immigrants should not be getting special tax benefits, and should have to contribute just the same as any other person for school, social security, and everything else.

[Jatt_builder]

I am pretty sure that because of my situation, I would not ever be getting a job that an equally qualified American deserves, but I have seen how sometimes people from particular regions manipulate and control whole departments in Universities and private companies, and start hiring only those, who are like them. Therefore I totally oppose dual citizenship, and nationalist, ethnocentric immigrants, who may be successful doctors and engineers here, but are usually condescending about some great aspects of American culture, American values. Its not like American culture can be properly defined, and we do have MTV, Hip-hop, white racists, Nation of Islam, teen pregnancies, Bush and Obama here. Still relatively for civilized, kind Americans it is one of the most open, free, rational, practical cultures.

If America can control illegal immigration, makes it easy and honorable for educated immigrants from particular regions, immigration can absolutely be an asset to America's future.

Just a little example: From my experience, immigrants from smaller countries, Nepal, Poland, Korea, African countries, Thailand, particular ethnicities from India, even likes of Egypt and Chile tend to be more loyal to America. They are not bound by nationalist and cultural ethnocentrism from countries like China and India. Infact even when they add cultural values to the American mosaic, America only benefits. We do need more family values, self-reliance, wanting minimum government, tolerance, humility, decency; from whichever culture we can get them from.

[OddLawnGnome]

In b4 W3Z0 and skkettch.

[Stizzel]

I don't mind immigration at all. Illegal immigration is a problem, though.

[Beatitude]

If you legally move to the U.S., then you are either a U.S. citizen or on the road to becoming one. You're not an outsider anymore, and you aren't stealing anything. Americans don't need their jobs protected from other Americans.

Besides, there's a reason countries have caps on immigrants per year. There's not enough immigrants to come in to completely saturate an industry.

[14kRPM]

So a person that comes to the US from Canada, or Europe can not take a job away from an American citizen, but a person that comes from Mexico can? What is with the "same team" thing too? Unless I am reading this wrong, this sounds ridiculous.

The fact that you don't understand me, proves that you're not on the team.

[anonymous]

I wonder about that myself sometimes, though I have less guilt to deal with, considering my field.
Still, you should have included Indians, Punjabis, Japanese too. Most of them are productive, do not cost America anything. Pay their taxes, tuitions, believe that citizenship is the biggest prize they can get. Many from India are mainly in for jobs and other prospects, but I have come across lots of North Indians, who with time see America as their real country as their new culture. They integrate pretty well. Most of them live well within white suburban neighborhoods and so on.

Our wannabe Viking brother in this thread may not like this, but supposedly Indians in America are now the most successful group in America. Even though some have Hindu nationalistic problems, but even with most of them, their next generation is all about being an educated, dedicated American.

You're right, Indians are the perfect house guests - and responsible for importing some of the hotter women I see here in socal

I left out asians as they're usually incredibly ethnocentric, just like some Eastern Euro's, Russians etc.

In fact the more I think about it there's not one group that comes to the US with more of a desire to make the most of their host country than Indians, if my Canadian-Indian in-laws are anything to go by.

[JMath]

The fact that you don't understand me, proves that you're not on the team.

Well than enlighten me and explain what you meant. I apparently didn't understand what you said, which is why I said "Unless I am reading this wrong".

[Skettch]

:edit: oops,

I thought you asked, how do you feel about immigrants coming into Canada, the UK and Europe.

I dislike high levels of immigration regardless of origin but assuming I had to choose, I wouldn't mind European immigration as much.

[Dertygen]

Speaking on behalf of the U.S. :

Give'em a god-damn SSN quicker so the ****ers don't use another person's ID and shiv'll be fine.

Process them faster.

Make it law for English to be an official language.
Let me explain the last point; it is crucial in a society with a vast cultural melting pot to have a single means of cohesion, thus-> language.

Besides, the Latina chicks are hot. Hell all women are hot. Bring 'em all in!

[Dertygen]

Well... http://www.utexas.edu/courses/stross...1stpersons.htm

[TopStarUSA]

every single race of human thats on this planet is in america... it is and always will be fuuuuuu........ not that its a complete bad thing, but just a lot more hard to deal with

edit - obviously other countries are mixed as well, i just think that our pot is more melting-like

edit2 - so to answer your question. i do wish that america was more closed like other countries. it would make it more special. yet, everyone seems to hate us but everyone wants in....wtf?

[tnel00]

i don't give a **** about immigrants, illegal or otherwise.

what i do care about is the government extending benefits to illegal immigrants when there are U.S. citizens who can't receive them

OP...what you were talking about is more an issue of globalization to me rather than immigration

[anonymous]

every single race of human thats on this planet is in america... it is and always will be fuuuuuu........ not that its a complete bad thing, but just a lot more hard to deal with

edit - obviously other countries are mixed as well, i just think that our pot is more melting-like

edit2 - so to answer your question. i do wish that america was more closed like other countries. it would make it more special. yet, everyone seems to hate us but everyone wants in....wtf?

It's not exactly easy to enter legally - the countries I mentioned (UK, canada, most of europe) practically let you walk in and take up residence, legally. The problem is the perception of 'immigrants' has been skewed by years of the media refusing to make a distinction between illegal / legal. The '1 in 8 americans is an immigrant' statistic doesn't mean there's millions of software engineers from Shanghai flooding the US.

As far as I can make out US immigration policy is a mixture of 60's Social Engineering (courtesy of Ted Kennedy ) and concessions to corporations.. with some extra quotas thrown in for special interest groups like Israelis. The system is actually designed to minimise immigration from the 'old countries' to the US while maximising Latin american immigration.

And still those who have the easiest ride are the ones who jump the border in the largest numbers.. shows that offically, at least, the US does not welcome everyone with open arms.

[ZenBowman]

You're right, Indians are the perfect house guests - and responsible for importing some of the hotter women I see here in socal

I left out asians as they're usually incredibly ethnocentric, just like some Eastern Euro's, Russians etc.

In fact the more I think about it there's not one group that comes to the US with more of a desire to make the most of their host country than Indians, if my Canadian-Indian in-laws are anything to go by.

Sup bro. How did the transition into an Indian family go? Some of our families are incredibly ethnocentric as well, sadly, this is a trend I see more now...

[Jimmy_Hollywood]

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

[HersHasMuscles]

I'm not as much concerned about a well-educated Canadians coming to the U.S. and taking possible jobs, bc they're still a positive working contributor to society. They're not draining us and adding to the ridiculous blackhole of debt we're in by applying for every Gov't program out there.
Those who come in (especially illegally), using foodstamps and medicaid, working as a dishwasher at a restaurant, those are who piss me the hell off. They're just putting a bigger strain on the shoulders of hard working tax payers.
I think if a man wants to bring himself or his family to America, he should have to enlist and spend ONE full year fighting overseas in the military. Only then, will he have the right to come. Why let all these people come over for free?? Make them get their hands a little dirty, make them work for the RIGHT TO BE AN AMERICAN.

Also, we should have the military work on our borders for 3 months before being deployed (as more training) and shoot on site anyone that crosses illegally. I guarantee it would only take 3 shots before it stopped

[ZenBowman]

I'm not as much concerned about a well-educated Canadians coming to the U.S. and taking possible jobs, bc they're still a positive working contributor to society. They're not draining us and adding to the ridiculous blackhole of debt we're in by applying for every Gov't program out there.
Those who come in (especially illegally), using foodstamps and medicaid, working as a dishwasher at a restaurant, those are who piss me the hell off. They're just putting a bigger strain on the shoulders of hard working tax payers.
I think if a man wants to bring himself or his family to America, he should have to enlist and spend ONE full year fighting overseas in the military. Only then, will he have the right to come. Why let all these people come over for free?? Make them get their hands a little dirty, make them work for the RIGHT TO BE AN AMERICAN.

Also, we should have the military work on our borders for 3 months before being deployed (as more training) and shoot on site anyone that crosses illegally. I guarantee it would only take 3 shots before it stopped

Strong heartlessness. Are you a Satanist?

[NJlifter88]

I'm not as much concerned about a well-educated Canadians coming to the U.S. and taking possible jobs, bc they're still a positive working contributor to society. They're not draining us and adding to the ridiculous blackhole of debt we're in by applying for every Gov't program out there.
Those who come in (especially illegally), using foodstamps and medicaid, working as a dishwasher at a restaurant, those are who piss me the hell off. They're just putting a bigger strain on the shoulders of hard working tax payers.
I think if a man wants to bring himself or his family to America, he should have to enlist and spend ONE full year fighting overseas in the military. Only then, will he have the right to come. Why let all these people come over for free?? Make them get their hands a little dirty, make them work for the RIGHT TO BE AN AMERICAN.

Also, we should have the military work on our borders for 3 months before being deployed (as more training) and shoot on site anyone that crosses illegally. I guarantee it would only take 3 shots before it stopped

immigrants are washing your dishes because people here are too lazy to do the job. also, our constitution sells there shall be no forced servitude. and shooting people on site for walking across a national border? strong fascist leanings.

[ZenBowman]

immigrants are washing your dishes because people here are too lazy to do the job. also, our constitution sells there shall be no forced servitude. and shooting people on site for walking across a national border? strong fascist leanings.

The problem is that most Americans these days simply don't understand what is a legitimate conflict of interests. The problem is not that illegal immigrants are evil, or wrong. From their perspective, when they are in poverty and need a way out, breaking the law is simply not that big a deal.

America certainly had no qualms about breaking the Iraqi laws when going into Iraq. Should all people who participated in the invasion be gassed. Are they all evil bloodsucking invaders?

Conservatives who demonize illegal immigrants really do show their own deep-seated prejudices and disgusting self-righteousness to the world.

Now, on to the real question: does this mean all illegal immigrants should be accepted with open arms?
Absolutely not.
Why?
It's not because the illegal immigrants are evil, it's because the nation cannot afford to take care of them, because it is against the interests of the nation. It is a question of the legitimate interests of people who want a better life for their families vs the legitimate interest of a nation to choose who enters their borders and maintain sovereignty. There is nothing wrong with illegal immigrants, they are not evil bloodsuckers. However, a nation must act in its own interest, and therefore must secure the borders.

Making a matter of national interest into a moralistic tirade on the least-fortunate members of society is sick.

[IraHays]

Squatters rights don't cut it.

[ZenBowman]

[IraHays]

The got those guns they are holding from the "terrorist".