God gives me riches!!! I can buy God! God is better than the lottery!

ObedEdom · 08-13-2009, 05:53 AM

...a disturbing e-mail sent to me yesterday by a pastor I spoke of, regarding his unwise preaching of the "prosperity Gospel". He was in attendance when I spoke, though I didn't know that. It doesn't matter, I feel how I feel and I am outraged at some of the things I hear coming from some guys pie holes these days...all in the name of Jesus.

E-MAIL:
thank you for not calling me out by name but many of our mutual ministry allies knew who you were referring to. My wife was completely embarassed at your nitpicking. God wants you to prosper. He wants you to have a decent home, a new car, and nice clothes. He wants you to pay your bills, take care of your family, and get ahead. He wants you to have what you need.
With God, there is no such thing as a lack of supply; there is only your lack of ability to release this supply. You cannot release this supply with your own intellect and resources alone, despite your best efforts. But there is a way for you to have unlimited supply--- God's way.
It is God who causes you to get wealth and He has one condition, obedience to His Word.
"But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth" [Deuteronomy 8:18]
" If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land" [Isaiah 1:19]
Jesus demanded obedience of Simon Peter when it was time to pay their taxes. Neither of them had the required money, but Jesus told Peter if he would obey him that He would show him where to find the money.
"Peter," Jesus said, "Go down to the sea and cast in a hook. The first fish you take up, open its mouth and take out the money. Then go pay my tax and your tax" [Mt.17:27 para]
If Peter had been looking in the natural, he probably would have thought it foolish to look for money in a fish's mouth. Jesus' words were contrary to Peters' natural reasoning, but they required his believing and acting on them. By acting on Jesus' words, Peter found the money to pay Jesus' taxes and his own.
Obedience to God's Word is the main key to prosperity, but here are some other keys that you will find helpful.

I have not replied as of yet...I've learned to not shoot back angry. you tend to miss the target

st_jimmy · 08-13-2009, 06:13 AM

Don't see how he can respond to the "harder for a rich man to go to heaven than a camel through the eye of a needle" thing. Or the part about the rich guy who gave up all his money and even gave his clothes to the poor. Or about giving up worldy possessions and whatnot. lol at paying taxes = god wants you to have a new car.

jordansrt · 08-13-2009, 06:19 AM

My wife was completely embarassed at your nitpicking..........sounds kinda harsh to me, If it was laid on your heart to speak about it then thats what needed to be said and i completly agree with you. It seems hes focused more on earthly possesions than what realy needs to be preached

Harbinger · 08-13-2009, 06:28 AM

The lack of understanding of prayer is part of what lead me to atheism. There are literally millions of 'good christians' who pray their asses off and still the die, get raped, get murdered, die in natural events 'Earth quakes, ect' and generally fail at life. Out of those millions a very small percentage have those prayers 'answered' and this proves the greatness of god.

ObedEdom · 08-13-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

The lack of understanding of prayer is part of what lead me to atheism. There are literally millions of 'good christians' who pray their asses off and still the die, get raped, get murdered, die in natural events 'Earth quakes, ect' and generally fail at life. Out of those millions a very small percentage have those prayers 'answered' and this proves the greatness of god.

if an individual prays to motivate God to work on his behalf, he is not praying to God.

the basic tenant characteristic of Jesus life is one of self sacrifice (ultimately ending on the Cross, but seen evident in His years of ministry beforehand)

He gave, denied Himself, did hard things
we take, act spoiled, avoid discomfort at all costs

all in Jesus name...to that, I ask, "which Jesus..."? Certainly not the one of scripture.

matpal · 08-13-2009, 06:46 AM

Stand your ground and dont dilute the Gospel with this guy.

Just curious, is he adhere to the Word of Faith movement?

ObedEdom · 08-13-2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matpal

Stand your ground and dont dilute the Gospel with this guy.

Just curious, is he adhere to the Word of Faith movement?

not in terminology (he would deny it), but apparently in personal deduction and expectation.

He isn't a heretic, I am careful with that word but he has most likely been very skewed by Hagin, Copeland and Duplantis and the "name it, claim it" false deduction of scripture

anything that you possess that is a reduction of the Cross, is an enemy of the Cross.

Harbinger · 08-13-2009, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObedEdom

if an individual prays to motivate God to work on his behalf, he is not praying to God.

the basic tenant characteristic of Jesus life is one of self sacrifice (ultimately ending on the Cross, but seen evident in His years of ministry beforehand)

He gave, denied Himself, did hard things
we take, act spoiled, avoid discomfort at all costs

all in Jesus name...to that, I ask, "which Jesus..."? Certainly not the one of scripture.

that's not what I meant. Let's take the Terri Schivo case 'i'm sure we're all familiar with it' as an example. How many tens of thousands of people where praying to god to save her life? I'm sure that this is where you're going to say "he saved her soul instead" but that's a load of cop-out crap and you know it. Those people wanted god to wake her up. Or let's use a more general but far more vivid example. How about every little boy/girl who's kidnapped?for every 100 of them, 2 are returned home safe. The other 98 are found brutally raped and murdered. But for those 2 holy fcuk god is great. You can't tell me that those tens of thousands of prayers are selfesh and that's why they go unanswered.

jordansrt · 08-13-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

that's not what I meant. Let's take the Terri Schivo case 'i'm sure we're all familiar with it' as an example. How many tens of thousands of people where praying to god to save her life? I'm sure that this is where you're going to say "he saved her soul instead" but that's a load of cop-out crap and you know it. Those people wanted god to wake her up. Or let's use a more general but far more vivid example. How about every little boy/girl who's kidnapped?for every 100 of them, 2 are returned home safe. The other 98 are found brutally raped and murdered. But for those 2 holy fcuk god is great. You can't tell me that those tens of thousands of prayers are selfesh and that's why they go unanswered.

Why do you expect this world to be perfect when its not? Does God have to listen to our prayers and grant every one of them?

bird72 · 08-13-2009, 07:10 AM

hey, man God is the owner of gold and silver, you don't want a BMW.........?

willpower1 · 08-13-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObedEdom

...a disturbing e-mail sent to me yesterday by a pastor I spoke of, regarding his unwise preaching of the "prosperity Gospel". He was in attendance when I spoke, though I didn't know that. It doesn't matter, I feel how I feel and I am outraged at some of the things I hear coming from some guys pie holes these days...all in the name of Jesus.

E-MAIL:
thank you for not calling me out by name but many of our mutual ministry allies knew who you were referring to. My wife was completely embarassed at your nitpicking. God wants you to prosper. He wants you to have a decent home, a new car, and nice clothes. He wants you to pay your bills, take care of your family, and get ahead. He wants you to have what you need.
With God, there is no such thing as a lack of supply; there is only your lack of ability to release this supply. You cannot release this supply with your own intellect and resources alone, despite your best efforts. But there is a way for you to have unlimited supply--- God's way.
It is God who causes you to get wealth and He has one condition, obedience to His Word.
"But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth" [Deuteronomy 8:18]
" If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land" [Isaiah 1:19]
Jesus demanded obedience of Simon Peter when it was time to pay their taxes. Neither of them had the required money, but Jesus told Peter if he would obey him that He would show him where to find the money.
"Peter," Jesus said, "Go down to the sea and cast in a hook. The first fish you take up, open its mouth and take out the money. Then go pay my tax and your tax" [Mt.17:27 para]
If Peter had been looking in the natural, he probably would have thought it foolish to look for money in a fish's mouth. Jesus' words were contrary to Peters' natural reasoning, but they required his believing and acting on them. By acting on Jesus' words, Peter found the money to pay Jesus' taxes and his own.
Obedience to God's Word is the main key to prosperity, but here are some other keys that you will find helpful.

I have not replied as of yet...I've learned to not shoot back angry. you tend to miss the target

I would like to say thanks for taking a stand! His wife should not been embarassed if she really stood by what her husband was teaching, I guess her pride got in the way. Wonder what he would say to those people who dont have nice things?

Harbinger · 08-13-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

Why do you expect this world to be perfect when its not? Does God have to listen to our prayers and grant every one of them?

if he's god, yes! If thousands of people pray for god so save the life of a child, those preyers should be answered. Allowing for the law of averages god has never answered a single prayer to save a child.

jordansrt · 08-13-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

if he's god, yes! If thousands of people pray for god so save the life of a child, those preyers should be answered.

Do you know if these people were praying in his will?

willpower1 · 08-13-2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird72

hey, man God is the owner of gold and silver, you don't want a BMW.........?

Tell God to hook me up bro!

jordansrt · 08-13-2009, 07:18 AM

The bible does say if we pay our tithes he will give us more....

willpower1 · 08-13-2009, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

The bible does say if we pay our tithes he will give us more....

It could be in the form of monitary things, but also spiritual blessings. Wonder what the guy would tell the people who love God with their whole being and that struggle?

jordansrt · 08-13-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willpower1

It could be in the form of monitary things, but also spiritual blessings. Wonder what the guy would tell the people who love God with their whole being and that struggle?

Exactly, id rather have blessings in my life than the money

ObedEdom · 08-13-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

that's not what I meant. Let's take the Terri Schivo case 'i'm sure we're all familiar with it' as an example. How many tens of thousands of people where praying to god to save her life? I'm sure that this is where you're going to say "he saved her soul instead" but that's a load of cop-out crap and you know it. Those people wanted god to wake her up. Or let's use a more general but far more vivid example. How about every little boy/girl who's kidnapped?for every 100 of them, 2 are returned home safe. The other 98 are found brutally raped and murdered. But for those 2 holy fcuk god is great. You can't tell me that those tens of thousands of prayers are selfesh and that's why they go unanswered.

again.

if you want God to make you feel warm and fuzzy, meet your emotional needs and rid your atmosphere of evil. sorry.

good luck trying to find a belief system that will.

whether you are in submission to Him or not, children are horribly murdered by sick people who deserve nothing but God's wrath...Jesus says they will get it. Women are horribly violated, God says in the manner of your crimes, you will be tormented in in hell...

I know that doesn't comfort, or make anything better. My words can't. God comforts.
He doesn't care if that makes sense to you.

Teri Schivo: people - "please God do what we want you to" "serve us" "meet our idea of justice" "do what we desire" "my way, God"

similar to making God prevent/govern/manifest anything...you can't, they can't, I can't

bird72 · 08-13-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willpower1

It could be in the form of monitary things, but also spiritual blessings. Wonder what the guy would tell the people who love God with their whole being and that struggle?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

Exactly, id rather have blessings in my life than the money

x 10000000000000000000000000000

i prefer spiritual blessings and health blessings.

ObedEdom · 08-13-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

if he's god, yes! If thousands of people pray for god so save the life of a child, those preyers should be answered. Allowing for the law of averages god has never answered a single prayer to save a child.

ethical/moral standards of God: as defined by you.

what belief systems has worked so great in preventing children from dying?
what ruling power has?

you indict God, but have no alternative. which means, you have absolutely no solution...
you have made you god, and your a pretty indecisive one.

go volunteer. and stop fighting for children that you say could justifiably been aborted.

sanctity of life = convenient argument

Andre-n-Andre · 08-13-2009, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willpower1

Those are strong words to speak about your creator son

Hey I was doing well and good for those 14 billion years before I got created.

willpower1 · 08-13-2009, 07:41 AM

Maybe you could tell him, "Take heed, and beware of covetousness..." (Luke 12:15).

Barry Bonds · 08-13-2009, 07:57 AM

because she knows they aren't teaching correctly. Your words got to her conscience.

God wants you to have all that nice stuff? Then why did Paul keep being sent back to prison and exile? I don't think "stuff" is high on God's priority list. And when a person in authority in Christianity tells them that it is, and it gets taken away, then that person deduces that Christianity must be false. Indeed, the "christianity" they were taught was false.

Bless you for standing up for the truth. I don't know that you'll "win" an argument here, but in my book you already have.

Harbinger · 08-13-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObedEdom

ethical/moral standards of God: as defined by you.

what belief systems has worked so great in preventing children from dying?
what ruling power has?

you indict God, but have no alternative. which means, you have absolutely no solution...
you have made you god, and your a pretty indecisive one.

go volunteer. and stop fighting for children that you say could justifiably been aborted.

sanctity of life = convenient argument

I actually do volunteer, I drive a collection truck for the catholic charties it's only a few days a year but, it's all theve ever asked me to do. I also donate money to them. Not to support the catholic church. Just because I've seen how they help the homeless and the hungery. As for the rest of your post, it's just another cop-out. Another excuse for an apathetic god who couldn't care less for his creation. Hell, I do more to help humanity in any given year than he's ever done.

jordansrt · 08-13-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I actually do volunteer, I drive a collection truck for the catholic charties it's only a few days a year but, it's all theve ever asked me to do. I also donate money to them. Not to support the catholic church. Just because I've seen how they help the homeless and the hungery. As for the rest of your post, it's just another cop-out. Another excuse for an apathetic god who couldn't care less for his creation. Hell, I do more to help humanity in any given year than he's ever done.

brah you can never outgive God, we always look at what he doesnt do instead of what he does

bird72 · 08-13-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I Hell, I do more to help humanity in any given year than he's ever done.

so, you control the earth oxygen switch, and the sun switch?..........

Andre-n-Andre · 08-13-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird72

so, you control the earth oxygen switch, and the sun switch?..........

You are as confused as only a man who is certain he is correct.

Harbinger · 08-13-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

brah you can never outgive God, we always look at what he doesnt do instead of what he does

Then he must truly be great because there is oh so much he doesn't do! Mind if I quote that on my next sig Jordan?

Barry Bonds · 08-13-2009, 08:42 AM

we're getting off topic here.

ObedEdom · 08-13-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I actually do volunteer, I drive a collection truck for the catholic charties it's only a few days a year but, it's all theve ever asked me to do. I also donate money to them. Not to support the catholic church. Just because I've seen how they help the homeless and the hungery. As for the rest of your post, it's just another cop-out. Another excuse for an apathetic god who couldn't care less for his creation. Hell, I do more to help humanity in any given year than he's ever done.

your opinion of God is exactly that, I can't refute it, it's your choice.

but thank you for helping, the truth is on the day of judgment I wonder what a lazy so called Christian who had much in resources but was too greedy to help others will say when they are presented with you, a man that rebukes God but still gives what he can to help.

it's like the good Samaritan, I guess...maybe God doesnt care if you hate Him or don't understand the horrible realities of life. He agrees.
Maybe He sees your deeds and smiles...I don't know, but I hope so

every knee, every head...every false christian, every atheist, every scholar, everyone...confesses Jesus the Christ is Lord in the end.

I help too, I know the sacrifice it takes, so respect to you.