Irony in the "Jesus/Horus + some" argumment

ObedEdom · 08-12-2009, 07:04 AM

irony.

how many times do Christians get referred to as "cherry pickers" that deduct theology and practical application, and void Old Testament laws, rituals, and mandates? The common argument is that we grab pieces of what we want to believe, surmise it to be beneficial to our fallacious argument, put it all together and create a religion we claim as God inspired truth but in all reality is just made by man, to please man for the purposes of man.

I've heard this many times. Most of these individuals, when pressed will state the similarities of the story of the Greek god Horus and the Christian Messiah Jesus to prove the allegory nature of the foundation of Christianity is merely a retread of an old tire, a worn out fable that man concocted to ruse the world.

They would state that Jesus is a hybrid of many other mythical gods, the core of Jesus life applications from Horus (virgin birth, miracles, persecution...this turned into a hybrid story of it's own in Nekhen), Tammuz-Adonis (a shepherd who was resurrected), Pythagoras (lifted up from earth and several serpent references), Dionysus (murdered and resurrected), Mithras (who killed a bull and provided life through the killing) and really, literally, countless others.

Historical Christology, Jesus Christ as all man and all God as manifested to mankind, encompasses all the figurative characteristics of those gods, negates the ancillary ones and takes claim to Christ being "Lord of Lords, King of Kings". those that call His dieity a myth would call it cut and paste Savior or pieced together God.

to come to their conclusion would require a bit of cutting and pasting to fit a desired argument would it not?

so juvenile or not (it is) I have all intentions of calling all Horus/Jesus theorists "cherry pickers" also...I know this is personal for alot of you. But epicosity may ensue, or nothing. If this may be thre beginning of WWE r/p style, let me say now...

I lived, I died.
on the day Jesus walked by my side
by His grace I am sanctified
while my enemies are now chicken fried

Big John McCarthy: you ready...you ready...let's get it on!

jordansrt · 08-12-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObedEdom

irony.

how many times do Christians get referred to as "cherry pickers" that deduct theology and practical application, and void Old Testament laws, rituals, and mandates? The common argument is that we grab pieces of what we want to believe, surmise it to be beneficial to our fallacious argument, put it all together and create a religion we claim as God inspired truth but in all reality is just made by man, to please man for the purposes of man.

I've heard this many times. Most of these individuals, when pressed will state the similarities of the story of the Greek god Horus and the Christian Messiah Jesus to prove the allegory nature of the foundation of Christianity is merely a retread of an old tire, a worn out fable that man concocted to ruse the world.

They would state that Jesus is a hybrid of many other mythical gods, the core of Jesus life applications from Horus (virgin birth, miracles, persecution...this turned into a hybrid story of it's own in Nekhen), Tammuz-Adonis (a shepherd who was resurrected), Pythagoras (lifted up from earth and several serpent references), Dionysus (murdered and resurrected), Mithras (who killed a bull and provided life through the killing) and really, literally, countless others.

Historical Christology, Jesus Christ as all man and all God as manifested to mankind, encompasses all the figurative characteristics of those gods, negates the ancillary ones and takes claim to Christ being "Lord of Lords, King of Kings". those that call His dieity a myth would call it cut and paste Savior or pieced together God.

to come to their conclusion would require a bit of cutting and pasting to fit a desired argument would it not?

so juvenile or not (it is) I have all intentions of calling all Horus/Jesus theorists "cherry pickers" also...I know this is personal for alot of you. But epicosity may ensue, or nothing. If this may be thre beginning of WWE r/p style, let me say now...

I lived, I died.
on the day Jesus walked by my side
by His grace I am sanctified
while my enemies are now chicken fried

Big John McCarthy: you ready...you ready...let's get it on!

I have done studies on this and the comparisons between jesus and horus, and when you actualy look at it their not anything alike. This is another excuse people would like to use but if you will do the studies you can see they dont add up. sorry obed just wanted to add my thoughts

bird72 · 08-12-2009, 07:10 AM

subbed......

jordansrt · 08-12-2009, 07:10 AM

1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

Let?s take this one apart and deal with each separate issue:

Horus? mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband's dead body back together and had intercourse with it. In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn't able to find that part of her husband. So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a virgin birth.

Horus was given three different birthdates in mythology, one of which does correspond to December 25th. But since Jesus wasn't, per the evidence, born on 12/25, this isn't a parallel.

"Meri" (technically "Mr-ee") is the egyptian word for "beloved" and was apparently applied to Isis prior to Jesus' time, as a title, not as part of her name. But since there were probably thousands of women between Horus' time and Jesus' with a name or title that was a variation on "Mary", there's no real reason to suppose that Jesus' mother was named after Isis in particular. Even if, hypothetically, the Gospel authors themselves fabricated Jesus' mother and decided to name her "Mary", it's far more likely that they named her after other women from around their time named "Mary" than it is that they named her after "Isis-Meri"

Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. Acharya's footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in one.

Horus' birth was not announced by a star in the east

There were no ?three wise men? at Horus? birth, or at Jesus? for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus? home, not at the manger, probably when Jesus was a year or two old).

Acharya's source for the last two claims appears to be Massey, who says "the Star in the East that arose to announce the birth of the babe (Jesus) was Orion, which is therefore called the star of Horus. That was once the star of the three kings; for the 'three kings' is still a name of three stars in Orion's belt . . . " Massey's apparently getting mixed up, and then the critics are misinterpreting it. Orion is not a star, but a constellation, of which there are three stars in a row making up the belt of Orion. However, there is no evidence that these three stars were called the "Three Kings" prior to Jesus' time, nor even prior to the 19th century, for that matter.

And even if there is a specific star called 'the star of Horus', there's no legend stating that it announced Horus' birth (as the critics are claiming) or that the three stars in Orion's belt attended Horus' birth in any way.

2) His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").

First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name ?Seb? and the Hebrew name ?Joseph?, other than the fact that they?re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris? father, not Horus?.

3) He was of royal descent.

This one?s true! But it's not really a comparison to Jesus. When followers speak of Jesus being of 'royal descent', they usually mean His being a descendent of King David, an earthly king. Horus was, according to the myth, descended from heavenly royalty (as Jesus was), being the son of the main god.

4) At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.

He never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.

5) Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.

Again, Horus was never baptized. There is no ?Anup the Baptizer? in the story.

6) He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").

Horus had four disciples (called ?Heru-Shemsu?). There?s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ?mesnui? (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there?s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named ?Anup? or ?Aan?.

7) He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.

He did perform miracles, but he never exorcised demons or raised his father from the dead. Also, Osiris is never referred to as ?El-Azarus? or ?El-Osiris? (clearly an attempt to make his name more closely resemble the Bible?s ?Lazarus?).

8) Horus walked on water.

No, he did not.

9) His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."

Horus was never referred to as ?Iusa? (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or ?Holy Child?.

10) He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."

Horus never delivered such a sermon, and, as pointed out above, he was never referred to as ?Iusa?.

11) Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

No, he was not.

12) He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.

Horus was never crucified. There?s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis? request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.

13) He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God?s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.

The only titles Horus is given are ?Great God?, ?Chief of the Powers?, ?Master of Heaven?, and ?Avenger of His Father?. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.

14) He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.

He was never referred to as ?the fisher?, and there are no lamb or lion in any of the stories. Acharya S.'s footnotes on this claim only show an association with fish (which is that Horus WAS a fish, unlike Jesus), with no evidence of his being called 'the fisher' or having any association with a lamb or lion.

15) He came to fulfill the Law.

There was no ?law? he was supposed to fulfill.

16) Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."

He was never referred to by either of these titles. "Krst", in Egyptian, means "burial", by the way. It wasn't a title.

17) Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."

No mention of this in Egyptian mythology.

jackfast1 · 08-12-2009, 07:10 AM

that is the entire point; the christians 'cherry-picked' parts of other gods in order to assemble their own!

they simply lifted the characteristics that they found most appealing...and created the jesus amalgam.

m.bowen · 08-12-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObedEdom

I lived, I died.
on the day Jesus walked by my side
by His grace I am sanctified
while my enemies are now chicken fried

I LOL'ED! To so many Christians, this is all Jesus is about. Very sad.

jordansrt · 08-12-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.bowen

I LOL'ED! To so many Christians, this is all Jesus is about. Very sad.

Nothing funny about it

m.bowen · 08-12-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

Nothing funny about it

I will pray to God for him to heal your sense of humor.

bird72 · 08-12-2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackfast1

that is the entire point; the christians 'cherry-picked' parts of other gods in order to assemble their own!

they simply lifted the characteristics that they found most appealing...and created the jesus amalgam.

explain, those characteristics, that Christians cherry pick...

WTSS · 08-12-2009, 07:19 AM

maybe God created those religions to test your will

jackfast1 · 08-12-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObedEdom

They would state that Jesus is a hybrid of many other mythical gods, the core of Jesus life applications from Horus (virgin birth, miracles, persecution...this turned into a hybrid story of it's own in Nekhen), Tammuz-Adonis (a shepherd who was resurrected), Pythagoras (lifted up from earth and several serpent references), Dionysus (murdered and resurrected), Mithras (who killed a bull and provided life through the killing) and really, literally, countless others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird72

explain, those characteristics, that Christians cherry pick...

i think 'obed' did an adequate job of pointing this out.

jordansrt · 08-12-2009, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.bowen

I will pray to God for him to heal your sense of humor.

i have a great sense of humor but theirs a difference in having a laugh or laughing at what Jesus does for us

willpower1 · 08-12-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackfast1

that is the entire point; the christians 'cherry-picked' parts of other gods in order to assemble their own!

they simply lifted the characteristics that they found most appealing...and created the jesus amalgam.

Would you care to give some examples?

jackfast1 · 08-12-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willpower1

Would you care to give some examples?

dont you people read?

see the OP or post #11!

bird72 · 08-12-2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackfast1

dont you people read?

see the OP or post #11!

oh, i see now, you don't have a real argument at all, just cherry picking

m.bowen · 08-12-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

i have a great sense of humor but theirs a difference in having a laugh or laughing at what Jesus does for us

Your sense of humor is fail. I was laughing at the Christians who believe the primary purpose of Jesus' life, death and resurrection was so that their enemies could be chicken fried. Really and truly this is why so many people turn to Christ, because they hate certain kinds of people and want to see those people suffer. As I said before, very sad.

Maestro · 08-12-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

Nothing funny about it

nah, its pretty funny jordan.

Maestro · 08-12-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird72

oh, i see now, you don't have a real argument at all, just cherry picking

what are you talking about?

read. the. first. post.

momofo · 08-12-2009, 07:41 AM

The Jesus-Horus comparisons are based on bad scholarship and outright lies. I've dealt with this in past threads. Horus was not born of a virgin, was not crucified (there was no such thing in Ancient Egypt), did not die to be resurrected later, etc. Osiris is an Egyptian Resurrection God, not Horus.
There are very few if any similarities between Horus and Jesus. This was just a lie put out by someone with an agenda, and a dishonest one at that.

ObedEdom, you are right to question all this, but remember based on your criteria of personal truth you can interpret anything as anything including the Bible, so this shouldn't bother you too much.

Some choose to interpret this as twin identity so let them be -- it must be giving them some personal validation, right?

If we can let the Biblical days of creation mean anything we want them to mean to help personalize the message and "keep up with the times", then why not change some deity's/avatar's characteristics to help personalize it?
(in case anyone is curious, I am pulling the information from the second paragraph from this conversation we had yesterday: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=118310061 ).

jordansrt · 08-12-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

nah, its pretty funny jordan.

nahh

jordansrt · 08-12-2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.bowen

Your sense of humor is fail. I was laughing at the Christians who believe the primary purpose of Jesus' life, death and resurrection was so that their enemies could be chicken fried. Really and truly this is why so many people turn to Christ, because they hate certain kinds of people and want to see those people suffer. As I said before, very sad.

ok then i can agree with that, a misunderstanding doesnt mean my sense of humor is fail

m.bowen · 08-12-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

ok then i can agree with that, a misunderstanding doesnt mean my sense of humor is fail

Fair enough, dude...

ObedEdom · 08-12-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momofo

ObedEdom, you are right to question all this, but remember based on your criteria of personal truth you can interpret anything as anything including the Bible, so this shouldn't bother you too much.

Some choose to interpret this as twin identity so let them be -- it must be giving them some personal validation, right?

If we can let the Biblical days of creation mean anything we want them to mean to help personalize the message, then why not change some deity's/avatar's characteristics to help personalize it?
(in case anyone is curious, I am pulling the information from the second paragraph from this conversation we had yesterday: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=118310061 ).

personal application of truth and eternal truth are certainly not identical. one gives sovereignty over to God, one keeps and defines it. The Christ seeker, will desire to submit to their personal application of truth, to be God's eternal truth.

nice tri (ceps)

also: you cherry picked.

jordansrt · 08-12-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.bowen

Fair enough, dude...

i repped you because i misunderstood

reyalp · 08-12-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackfast1

dont you people read?

see the OP or post #11!

or post #4!

wait, what?

bird72 · 08-12-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momofo

The Jesus-Horus comparisons are based on bad scholarship and outright lies. I've dealt with this in past threads. Horus was not born of a virgin, was not crucified (there was no such thing in Ancient Egypt), did not die to be resurrected later, etc. Osiris is an Egyptian Resurrection God, not Horus.
There are very few if any similarities between Horus and Jesus. This was just a lie put out by someone with an agenda, and a dishonest one at that.

Is good to know that you can be honest.

repped on recharge.

Maestro · 08-12-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordansrt

nahh

yahuh

jackfast1 · 08-12-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reyalp

or post #4!

wait, what?

massive copy and paste
with NO REFERENCES?

no thank you!

bird72 · 08-12-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackfast1

massive copy and paste
with NO REFERENCES?

no thank you!

when they said, excuses to the water, you were drying....

jackfast1 · 08-12-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird72

when they said, excuses to the water, you were drying....

congratulations bird!
it appears that you have successfully invented a time machine;
corresponding with you immediately transports me back to the third grade!