Good mornings are the devil's exercise

Mr.Runner · 08-09-2009, 04:34 PM

Agreed?

musicality213 · 08-09-2009, 05:05 PM

I was talking to a personal trainer about my back routine the other day, and he said that he would never recommend anyone do good mornings. He said he had witnessed, one multiple occasions, people throwing out or even permanently damaging their backs from them.

I'm taking his word for it. I've only been doing good mornings for a few weeks, but the strain on the spine doesn't seem to be worth the risk.

russellx88x · 08-09-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Runner

Agreed?

i always thought good mornings where a pretty good workout if you do em properly..kind of tough on the knees though..however the name is pretty queer so its okay if you dont do them..

RickMuscle · 08-09-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicality213

I was talking to a personal trainer about my back routine the other day, and he said that he would never recommend anyone do good mornings. He said he had witnessed, one multiple occasions, people throwing out or even permanently damaging their backs from them.

I'm taking his word for it. I've only been doing good mornings for a few weeks, but the strain on the spine doesn't seem to be worth the risk.

Maybe you had too much weight on the bar and or were not doing them properly. Personal trainers are no the "be all end all" authority's when it comes to an exercise being good or bad for you.

musicality213 · 08-09-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickMuscle

Maybe you had too much weight on the bar and or were not doing them properly. Personal trainers are no the "be all end all" authority's when it comes to an exercise being good or bad for you.

I wasn't doing good mornings when I spoke to him. I just figure he wouldn't make something like that up, and that the logic he used sounded perfectly reasonable.

DJAuto · 08-09-2009, 05:25 PM

I'm not a fan of the movement.

steve weiser · 08-09-2009, 05:33 PM

Most PT's also think deep squats are bad too. It just depends on who you talk too i guess. Like how some people hate upright rows, yet others swear by them. I mostly just think it's cause something like good morning isn't a beginner exercise to do, and you get all the benefits from doing other "safer" exercises. You really need to get the form down with just a bar before trying them with any significant weight. I'd never do them though in my routine.

chazzy1864 · 08-09-2009, 05:55 PM

I love good mornings.

Like any exercise, if done with poor form, can lead to injury. Some are easier than others to use poor form, but still. Don't blame an exercise due to a stupid user.

musicality213 · 08-09-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazzy1864

I love good mornings.

Like any exercise, if done with poor form, can lead to injury. Some are easier than others to use poor form, but still. Don't blame an exercise due to a stupid user.

I'm going to be the devil's advocate for the personal trainer's opinion for a minute, so don't think I'm trying to be disagreeable here.

If you think about the biomechanics of good mornings, the point with the most leverage is going to be the L4/L5 vertebrae rather than a muscle. While you'd be exercising the muscles above that point as well, the brunt of the torque is going to be on your spine.

Can't say the same for deadlifts with proper form (though stiff-legged could pose the same problem).

Ubby 86 · 08-09-2009, 06:03 PM

i like good mornings but i feel a better stretch with stiff-legg deads or weighted back extensions

crupiea · 08-09-2009, 06:07 PM

They should work your hamstrings. if all the stress in on your lower back then work on form.

GuyJin · 08-09-2009, 06:07 PM

Any exercise, even CURLZ!! can be bad for you if you use improper form. Half the time, you'll find guys who say "such-and-such" exercise is bad because: a) they got no results from it and/or; b) they hurt themselves doing it.

Having said that, you have to see for yourself if you gain any benefit from doing good mornings. I use them on my "light" day (Wednesday) and do NOT go very heavy--I've used as much as 155 in the past (and many guys can go way heavier than that) for 8 reps and I've never had any problems. IMHO, the GM IS a great exercise for the lower back and hits hamstrings as well, but it does have the potential for wrecking you in the blink of an eye if you use poor form.

The bottom line is you have to start out light as with any new movement, keep strict form, and see if you gain anything from it. If not, then fine; there are always other movements you can do.

My two yen on all this..

Wildtim · 08-09-2009, 06:08 PM

Not correct. As long as you keep your spine in natural extension and lock it into place using the erectors you will transfer the load properly down the spine to the hams.

musicality213 · 08-09-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Not correct. As long as you keep your spine in natural extension and lock it into place using the erectors you will transfer the load properly down the spine to the hams.

So perhaps people injure themselves by trying too hard to "isolate" their lower back with it, while not engaging their hammies properly?

Mr.Runner · 08-09-2009, 06:14 PM

Oh, I love the exercise, absolutely brutally effective. It's just that a heavy set makes me hallucinate.

And the Westside guys have the GM as a cornerstone of their programming. In fact they do max effort work with it, something that a beginner definitely shouldn't be up to.

It also depends on how much knee bend you use, effects the load on the back/hamstrings differently.

^Yup. I can bet you that people are hurting their back because they're not hinging at the hips and their ass is weak.

musicality213 · 08-09-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Runner

their ass is weak.

I lol'd.

CaptainGorgeous · 08-09-2009, 06:28 PM

I don't think good mornings will provide any benefits in terms of bodybuilding than will alternative exercises like RDLs.

For powerlifting, I can definitely see their use, but I don't think they're necessary until you can squat roughly 300ish.

DaveGabe24 · 08-09-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Runner

Oh, I love the exercise, absolutely brutally effective. It's just that a heavy set makes me hallucinate.

And the Westside guys have the GM as a cornerstone of their programming. In fact they do max effort work with it, something that a beginner definitely shouldn't be up to.

It also depends on how much knee bend you use, effects the load on the back/hamstrings differently.

^Yup. I can bet you that people are hurting their back because they're not hinging at the hips and their ass is weak.

Agreed.

People don't sit back on squats/GMs and it puts a significant amount of shearing force on your knees, or lower back with a GM.

Sitting back allows the fulcrum to shift, and the weight moves onto your quad/hamstring. Breaking at the hips, and sitting back is something all beginners should focus on before increasing weight.

Mr.Runner · 08-09-2009, 06:41 PM

That's probably because the weight is shifting closer to the mid foot as you push your hips back, I figure.

-Lucifer · 08-09-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicality213

I'm taking his word for it. I've only been doing good mornings for a few weeks, but the strain on the spine doesn't seem to be worth the risk.

Yeah, I've noticed that my lower back's been hurting since I started doing them and I don't even go heavy.

jgrube · 08-09-2009, 08:58 PM

why even do good mornings? stiff leg deadlifts use the same muscles only without the stress on the spine.

400Lb Gorilla · 08-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjperez86

i like good mornings but i feel a better stretch with stiff-legg deads or weighted back extensions

same here.

ironwill2008 · 08-09-2009, 09:30 PM

Great posterior chain exercise. Want to help your deadlift? Do GM's. This is one I wouldn't recommend for noobs, though; they require picture-perfect form.

hulkinout · 08-09-2009, 09:34 PM

I do them primarily as a hammie move, so I keep the weight relatively light and just go from the stretch and squeeze on the hams. The move is about stretching my hams and glutes backward, and pushing forward on the hams and hip flexors coming back. The arc of the move is like a letter "J": down and back, up and forward.

Most people I see doing them are just pivoting at the waist and it's almost exclusively a lower back move then, and inevitably, they end up tweaking their erectors at some point (usually going too heavy with loose form).

Strict form on these is key. Keep the weight light to maintain that. Your hams will grow.

Musclezs · 08-09-2009, 10:20 PM

bruce lee seriously injured his back doing good mornings. it was in his hospital bed where he wrote the Tao of Jeet Kune Do. he wasn't expected to walk ever again. they say that smart people learn from others' mistakes. it was 5 years before i started lifting that i pledged never to do good mornings.

AHTTG · 08-09-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musclezs

bruce lee seriously injured his back doing good mornings. it was in his hospital bed where he wrote the Tao of Jeet Kune Do. he wasn't expected to walk ever again. they say that smart people learn from others' mistakes. it was 5 years before i started lifting that i pledged never to do good mornings.

GuyJin · 08-10-2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musclezs

bruce lee seriously injured his back doing good mornings. it was in his hospital bed where he wrote the Tao of Jeet Kune Do. he wasn't expected to walk ever again. they say that smart people learn from others' mistakes. it was 5 years before i started lifting that i pledged never to do good mornings.

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More than likely, he used bad form and/or too much weight. This is NOT one exercise to screw around with, and must be done, as someone said earlier, strictly. It is also not for noobs. If you're going to do it, start light, keep to perfect form, and be very patient. It does give good results and will help with your squat--as will stiff leg deads and regular deads--but it must be done perfectly. If you can't do it right, then don't do it at all.

Just my two yen for the day...

nitro91 · 08-10-2009, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyJin

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More than likely, he used bad form and/or too much weight. This is NOT one exercise to screw around with, and must be done, as someone said earlier, strictly. It is also not for noobs. If you're going to do it, start light, keep to perfect form, and be very patient. It does give good results and will help with your squat--as will stiff leg deads and regular deads--but it must be done perfectly. If you can't do it right, then don't do it at all.

Just my two yen for the day...

GuyJin · 08-10-2009, 05:18 AM

Thank you, nitro.

My advice is pretty cheesy at times.....

Beachman · 08-10-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musclezs

it was in his hospital bed where he(Bruce Lee) wrote the Tao of Jeet Kune Do.

Wrong. Read the book.

Sorry to hijack.

Imho good mornings are just like any other exercise start light and use proper form and they can be beneficial.