Dextrose VS. Waxy Maize Starch

[sdbolts512]

which is better for glycogen replenishment post-workout?

waxy maize is supposedly much better but does it live up to the hype?

[nni]

dextrose

[svillasenor]

they are good on an individual level. They do the same thing but dextrose can cause bloating in some and others may not like WMS. So its all personal preference but they do the same thing.

[Illadelphia]

they are good on an individual level. They do the same thing but dextrose can cause bloating in some and others may not like WMS. So its all personal preference but they do the same thing.

Wrong


WMS is a slow release carb. How about you know what your talking about before you speak?


Originally Posted by WillBrink
Holy marketing spin Batman!!!!. This is the same study I wrote about in my article comparing WMS to white bread for MD:

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/c.../view/1451/51/

First the sellers of waxy maize claim it?s faster absorbing then malto, dextrose and other high GI carb sources, and when this study (and others...) showed that not to be the case, they do a 180 and now claim its benefit is as a slow digesting low GI carb??!!

It's called marketing folks. You claim one thing, and when all the studies show it's BS, you simply change your claims!

Now lets see how many of the buying public fall for this....:banghead:

I hate to say I told you so, BUT I TOLD YOU SO!

Read this with a critical eye, and you will easily see the spin at work:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

University Study Shows Waxy Maize Starch Study Could Serve as Slow, Sustained Energy Source Low Glycemic Carb Could Help Fuel Military Personnel, Endurance Athletes

Irvine, CA ? July 30, 2009? Purdue University researchers may have found a new use for an old starch?waxy maize starch?to offer sustained energy delivery to military personnel and endurance athletes.

Waxy maize starch, called ?waxy? because of the appearance of the kernel under cross section, was brought from China to the US in the early 1900s. In the study, published in the current issue of Nutrition Research, waxy maize starch was compared to a mixture of maltodextrin and sugars, and to white bread. The study confirmed previous studies showing waxy maize starch to be slowly digested and absorbed, producing a much smaller increase in blood sugar and insulin.

?Waxy maize starch appears to provide slow, sustained delivery of energy to the body,? offered sports nutrition researcher Chad Kerksick, PhD of the University of Oklahoma Department of Health and Exercise Science. ?These new findings confirm what we have seen in our study comparing waxy maize starch to maltodextrin.?

In the Purdue study twelve lean and fit young men and women received a 50 gram dose of carbohydrates supplied by white bread, waxy maize starch, or a maltodextrin and sucrose mixture (approximately 3:1 ratio), on three different days. Blood glucose and blood insulin responses to the carbohydrate sources were followed for four hours, along with measurements of calorie burning rate and subjective measurements of appetite and fullness.

The study performed an assessment of the glycemic index, a measure of the excursion of blood sugar relative to a ?control? carbohydrate, white bread, and a fast digesting and absorbing carbohydrate source, maltodextrin plus sugar, at 2 and 4 hours after ingestion. At 2 hours, maltodextrin plus sugar achieved a glycemic index of 163, waxy maize starch had a value of 63, and white bread 71. The blood insulin response, influenced by how fast the carbohydrate was digested and absorbed, was 3.5 times higher, and substantially faster in the first hour with maltodextrin plus sugar, and 1.6 times higher with white bread, relative to waxy maize starch. None of the carbohydrate treatments differed in their influence on hunger, appetite, or calories burned.

?This study with waxy maize starch directly refutes what numerous sport nutrition product companies are claiming?that waxy maize starch is fast absorbing and raises insulin sharply,? described Susan Kleiner, PhD, RD, director of High Performance Nutrition, LLC in the Seattle area, and the author of the best selling book Power Eating, Third Edition. ?It actually may be best suited for long endurance exercise or for persons who experience blood sugar fluctuations, as blood sugar did not drop below the starting point 4 hours after waxy maize starch but did with maltodextrin plus sugars,? added Dr. Kleiner.

?Although an exercise endurance test was not performed, we and other researchers have shown that at least over a 2 hour period, waxy maize starch does not enhance endurance performance over maltodextrin,? added Dr. Kerksick. ?What would be interesting to explore is whether waxy maize starch would shine in ultra-endurance training or competition, in events lasting 4 hours or more. This may be why the military had an interest.?

This study was funded by the US Army, Natick Soldier Research Development & Engineering Center, Combat Feeding Program in Natick, MA.

[Marauder63]

Dextrose Ftw have close to 10lbs sitting in my closet

[Twin Towers]

Wrong


WMS is a slow release carb. How about you know what your talking about before you speak?


Originally Posted by WillBrink
Holy marketing spin Batman!!!!. This is the same study I wrote about in my article comparing WMS to white bread for MD:

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/c.../view/1451/51/

First the sellers of waxy maize claim it?s faster absorbing then malto, dextrose and other high GI carb sources, and when this study (and others...) showed that not to be the case, they do a 180 and now claim its benefit is as a slow digesting low GI carb??!!

It's called marketing folks. You claim one thing, and when all the studies show it's BS, you simply change your claims!

Now lets see how many of the buying public fall for this....:banghead:

I hate to say I told you so, BUT I TOLD YOU SO!

Read this with a critical eye, and you will easily see the spin at work:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

University Study Shows Waxy Maize Starch Study Could Serve as Slow, Sustained Energy Source Low Glycemic Carb Could Help Fuel Military Personnel, Endurance Athletes

Irvine, CA ? July 30, 2009? Purdue University researchers may have found a new use for an old starch?waxy maize starch?to offer sustained energy delivery to military personnel and endurance athletes.

Waxy maize starch, called ?waxy? because of the appearance of the kernel under cross section, was brought from China to the US in the early 1900s. In the study, published in the current issue of Nutrition Research, waxy maize starch was compared to a mixture of maltodextrin and sugars, and to white bread. The study confirmed previous studies showing waxy maize starch to be slowly digested and absorbed, producing a much smaller increase in blood sugar and insulin.

?Waxy maize starch appears to provide slow, sustained delivery of energy to the body,? offered sports nutrition researcher Chad Kerksick, PhD of the University of Oklahoma Department of Health and Exercise Science. ?These new findings confirm what we have seen in our study comparing waxy maize starch to maltodextrin.?

In the Purdue study twelve lean and fit young men and women received a 50 gram dose of carbohydrates supplied by white bread, waxy maize starch, or a maltodextrin and sucrose mixture (approximately 3:1 ratio), on three different days. Blood glucose and blood insulin responses to the carbohydrate sources were followed for four hours, along with measurements of calorie burning rate and subjective measurements of appetite and fullness.

The study performed an assessment of the glycemic index, a measure of the excursion of blood sugar relative to a ?control? carbohydrate, white bread, and a fast digesting and absorbing carbohydrate source, maltodextrin plus sugar, at 2 and 4 hours after ingestion. At 2 hours, maltodextrin plus sugar achieved a glycemic index of 163, waxy maize starch had a value of 63, and white bread 71. The blood insulin response, influenced by how fast the carbohydrate was digested and absorbed, was 3.5 times higher, and substantially faster in the first hour with maltodextrin plus sugar, and 1.6 times higher with white bread, relative to waxy maize starch. None of the carbohydrate treatments differed in their influence on hunger, appetite, or calories burned.

?This study with waxy maize starch directly refutes what numerous sport nutrition product companies are claiming?that waxy maize starch is fast absorbing and raises insulin sharply,? described Susan Kleiner, PhD, RD, director of High Performance Nutrition, LLC in the Seattle area, and the author of the best selling book Power Eating, Third Edition. ?It actually may be best suited for long endurance exercise or for persons who experience blood sugar fluctuations, as blood sugar did not drop below the starting point 4 hours after waxy maize starch but did with maltodextrin plus sugars,? added Dr. Kleiner.

?Although an exercise endurance test was not performed, we and other researchers have shown that at least over a 2 hour period, waxy maize starch does not enhance endurance performance over maltodextrin,? added Dr. Kerksick. ?What would be interesting to explore is whether waxy maize starch would shine in ultra-endurance training or competition, in events lasting 4 hours or more. This may be why the military had an interest.?

This study was funded by the US Army, Natick Soldier Research Development & Engineering Center, Combat Feeding Program in Natick, MA.

good read....BRB switching from WMS to Dextrose. I get my slow digesting carb from whole food sources 1-1.5 hours after my post workout Whey/Carb shake.

[Illadelphia]

good read....BRB switching from WMS to Dextrose. I get my slow digesting carb from whole food sources 1-1.5 hours after my post workout Whey/Carb shake.

Buy cytofuse or get negged.


New slogan?

[Twin Towers]

Buy cytofuse or get negged.


New slogan?

that shiz was tasty

[Illadelphia]

that shiz was tasty

That's what she said?

[Twin Towers]

That's what she said?

[svillasenor]

Wrong


WMS is a slow release carb. How about you know what your talking about before you speak?


Originally Posted by WillBrink
Holy marketing spin Batman!!!!. This is the same study I wrote about in my article comparing WMS to white bread for MD:

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/c.../view/1451/51/

First the sellers of waxy maize claim it?s faster absorbing then malto, dextrose and other high GI carb sources, and when this study (and others...) showed that not to be the case, they do a 180 and now claim its benefit is as a slow digesting low GI carb??!!

It's called marketing folks. You claim one thing, and when all the studies show it's BS, you simply change your claims!

Now lets see how many of the buying public fall for this....:banghead:

I hate to say I told you so, BUT I TOLD YOU SO!

Read this with a critical eye, and you will easily see the spin at work:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

University Study Shows Waxy Maize Starch Study Could Serve as Slow, Sustained Energy Source Low Glycemic Carb Could Help Fuel Military Personnel, Endurance Athletes

Irvine, CA ? July 30, 2009? Purdue University researchers may have found a new use for an old starch?waxy maize starch?to offer sustained energy delivery to military personnel and endurance athletes.

Waxy maize starch, called ?waxy? because of the appearance of the kernel under cross section, was brought from China to the US in the early 1900s. In the study, published in the current issue of Nutrition Research, waxy maize starch was compared to a mixture of maltodextrin and sugars, and to white bread. The study confirmed previous studies showing waxy maize starch to be slowly digested and absorbed, producing a much smaller increase in blood sugar and insulin.

?Waxy maize starch appears to provide slow, sustained delivery of energy to the body,? offered sports nutrition researcher Chad Kerksick, PhD of the University of Oklahoma Department of Health and Exercise Science. ?These new findings confirm what we have seen in our study comparing waxy maize starch to maltodextrin.?

In the Purdue study twelve lean and fit young men and women received a 50 gram dose of carbohydrates supplied by white bread, waxy maize starch, or a maltodextrin and sucrose mixture (approximately 3:1 ratio), on three different days. Blood glucose and blood insulin responses to the carbohydrate sources were followed for four hours, along with measurements of calorie burning rate and subjective measurements of appetite and fullness.

The study performed an assessment of the glycemic index, a measure of the excursion of blood sugar relative to a ?control? carbohydrate, white bread, and a fast digesting and absorbing carbohydrate source, maltodextrin plus sugar, at 2 and 4 hours after ingestion. At 2 hours, maltodextrin plus sugar achieved a glycemic index of 163, waxy maize starch had a value of 63, and white bread 71. The blood insulin response, influenced by how fast the carbohydrate was digested and absorbed, was 3.5 times higher, and substantially faster in the first hour with maltodextrin plus sugar, and 1.6 times higher with white bread, relative to waxy maize starch. None of the carbohydrate treatments differed in their influence on hunger, appetite, or calories burned.

?This study with waxy maize starch directly refutes what numerous sport nutrition product companies are claiming?that waxy maize starch is fast absorbing and raises insulin sharply,? described Susan Kleiner, PhD, RD, director of High Performance Nutrition, LLC in the Seattle area, and the author of the best selling book Power Eating, Third Edition. ?It actually may be best suited for long endurance exercise or for persons who experience blood sugar fluctuations, as blood sugar did not drop below the starting point 4 hours after waxy maize starch but did with maltodextrin plus sugars,? added Dr. Kleiner.

?Although an exercise endurance test was not performed, we and other researchers have shown that at least over a 2 hour period, waxy maize starch does not enhance endurance performance over maltodextrin,? added Dr. Kerksick. ?What would be interesting to explore is whether waxy maize starch would shine in ultra-endurance training or competition, in events lasting 4 hours or more. This may be why the military had an interest.?

This study was funded by the US Army, Natick Soldier Research Development & Engineering Center, Combat Feeding Program in Natick, MA.

good read, thanks, I didnt mean the do the same as far as quickness in replenishing, I just made a vague statement that they do replenish in general. I just dont use dextrose cause it bloats me up rather badly. Reps for good read tho.

[nano.ix]

which is better for glycogen replenishment post-workout?

waxy maize is supposedly much better but does it live up to the hype?

Why don't you just consume whole foods? Any carbs are going to replenish glycogen. Slow digesting carbs are better than fast anyways (even then the GI changes when mixed with other sources)

[Twin Towers]

Why don't you just consume whole foods? Any carbs are going to replenish glycogen. The rate at which is does is irrelevant (assuming your looking for high GI sources).

I was sure you were supposed to have quick digesting carbs immediately post and then slow digesting for the next whole foods meal for replenishment of glycogen stores

[-KTA-]

Why don't you just consume whole foods? Any carbs are going to replenish glycogen. The rate at which is does is irrelevant (assuming your looking for high GI sources).

my understanding is fructose doesn't replenish muscle glycogen, only liver (which is also important) so Dex would be optimal... not to mention it's redonkulously cheap in bulk. And tends to make proteinz shakes taste betta.

Honey is a satisfying source though, I think it's 60/40 fruc/dex

[nano.ix]

I was sure you were supposed to have quick digesting carbs immediately post and then slow digesting for the next whole foods meal for replenishment of glycogen stores

my understanding is fructose doesn't replenish muscle glycogen, only liver (which is also important) so Dex would be optimal... not to mention it's redonkulously cheap in bulk. And tends to make proteinz shakes taste betta.

Honey is a satisfying source though, I think it's 60/40 fruc/dex

My point was referring to the 'quick digesting carbs' post workout issue. It's not an issue unless you have depleted glycogen - which won't happen unless your are in a fasted state or you are an endurance athlete. Not to mention the digestion rate changes once mixed with any other source, so unless you are consuming dex alone ...

If you want to eat a meal with whole wheat bread, pasta, white bread w/e and a steak by all means do it.

You can read about this here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067

[-KTA-]

My point was referring to the 'quick digesting carbs' post workout issue. It's not an issue unless you have depleted glycogen - which won't happen unless your are in a fasted state or you are an endurance athlete. Not to mention the digestion rate changes once mixed with any other source, so unless you are consuming dex alone ...

If you want to eat a meal with whole wheat bread, pasta, white bread w/e and a steak by all means do it.

You can read about this more in depth from Alan Aragon's sticky in the nutrition section labeled "Pre/Post workout nutrition".

I agree it depends on what you eat prior etc.

But also most want to illicit an insulin response of some sort, so they'll go with something like Dextrose. I was pretty sure Aragon's studies supported cho / protein consumption post workout, but i'll have to take another look.... tomorrow. I'm off to bed, 5am workouts rule.

Peace.

Edit took a quick look:

If you want high GI carbs pre and/or during training, go for it. As time has passed, GI has proven itself to be a worthless, irrelevant index. Insulinogenesis is a separate issue, and slight elevations during & postworkout is a great idea.

That was what I was getting at ^^^

So buy 8-betaAnabol today, it's great intra & post and in the 25% off sale. /shameless shilling.

[nano.ix]

I agree it depends on what you eat prior etc.

But also most want to illicit an insulin response of some sort, so they'll go with something like Dextrose. I was pretty sure Aragon's studies supported cho / protein consumption post workout, but i'll have to take another look.... tomorrow. I'm off to bed, 5am workouts rule.

Peace.

Edit took a quick look:


That was what I was getting at ^^^

So buy 8-betaAnabol today, it's great intra & post and in the 25% off sale. /shameless shilling.

Heres a few discussions on the post-workout insulin spike from Alan. Also note in the last one 'honey ftw'

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=47
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=133
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1875391&page=2

[-KTA-]

Heres a few discussions on the post-workout insulin spike from Alan. Also note in the last one 'honey ftw'

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=47
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=133
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1875391&page=2

Thanks for the links.

I don't buy into the need for Glycogen restoration like everyone panicks about, espescially since my pre workout meals are rich in carbs. I was mainly speaking about an insulin response, which recently Dextrose has shown to be > WMS. But I suppose there are variables to look at on that as well.

But yeah, I have several jars off honey in the cubard in the offseason for a nice change of pace

[sdbolts512]

Why don't you just consume whole foods? Any carbs are going to replenish glycogen. The rate at which is does is irrelevant (assuming your looking for high GI sources).

yeah, that seems to be what a lot of people are telling me. seems like the other two are overhyped

[dvsness]

Carb load > carb source. In reality, it doesn't really matter. Use what you like, fits your budget and is convenient. I am not a fan of either of these options.

[Illadelphia]

Carb load > carb source. In reality, it doesn't really matter. Use what you like, fits your budget and is convenient. I am not a fan of either of these options.

Really? lol


Next time, i'll swap out brown rice for cotton candy then....

[ckozeluh]

Really? lol


Next time, i'll swap out brown rice for cotton candy then....

I didn't know I could do that

[nano.ix]

Really? lol


Next time, i'll swap out brown rice for cotton candy then....

It's a tastier alternative.

[put5onyo]

Buy cytofuse, relentless, whey, UP 1.0 and 2.0, or get negged.


New slogan?

Fixed.

Really? lol


Next time, i'll swap out brown rice for cotton candy then....

I think it is Johnnie Jackson that eats chocolate chip cookies for his carbs. He has the "carb is a carb" mentality as well.

My grandmother is diabetic and has essentially said the same thing as well. I don't know but just throwing that out there.

[nni]

Really? lol


Next time, i'll swap out brown rice for cotton candy then....

cotton candy is sucrose. if you are looking for a fast acting carb for pwo, it would be a better choice than brown rice.

[dvsness]

Really? lol


Next time, i'll swap out brown rice for cotton candy then....

Gram for gram of CHO in the PWO window, what's the diff? Carb load really has shown to be more significant. Erik Ledin is a fantastic trainer and gives his clients the option to use the carb of their choice for PWO so long as it fits the allotted grams he wants. Sugary cereals are often chosen. Do you really think dextrose would have an added benefit over cotton candy g for g? While I personally am a fan of more micronutrient rich sources, if you're going to have a carb with no nutritional value, I'd rather have candy than drink a sugar shake.

[Illadelphia]

Gram for gram of CHO in the PWO window, what's the diff? Carb load really has shown to be more significant. Erik Ledin is a fantastic trainer and gives his clients the option to use the carb of their choice for PWO so long as it fits the allotted grams he wants. Sugary cereals are often chosen. Do you really think dextrose would have an added benefit over cotton candy g for g? While I personally am a fan of more micronutrient rich sources, if you're going to have a carb with no nutritional value, I'd rather have candy than drink a sugar shake.

I do agree on the cereal idea. I have read a few times that milk+cereal has proven much more effective than gatorade.

[-KTA-]

I do agree on the cereal idea. I have read a few times that milk+cereal has proven much more effective than gatorade.

I'd rather get a bag of candy, cereal can be pricey in comparison. Skittles, taste the rain-bro

[EricTheRed]

S'more poptarts