Bodybuilding.com Information Motivation Supplementation
in:

    The World’s #1 Bodybuilding And Fitness Forum - Save Up To 50% Off Retail Prices In Our Bodybuilding.com Store!

Reply
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Polski. wanaBsedated's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2005
    Location: United States
    Age: 35
    Stats: 6'1", 240 lbs
    Posts: 12,688
    BodyPoints: 25616
    Rep Power: 5611
    wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit wanaBsedated's BodySpace
    wanaBsedated is offline

    SO what is the deal.. does soy reduce testosterone or not?

    I have read conflicting info however it does seem to reduces DHT.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    not hyooge but healthy dustinlima's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Age: 24
    Stats: 5'9", 159 lbs
    Posts: 552
    Rep Power: 1192
    dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit dustinlima's BodySpace
    dustinlima is offline

    Abstracts

    Human studies:
    Originally Posted by Effect of protein source and resistance training on body composition and sex hormones. - D. Kalman et al. - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition (J Int Soc Sports Nutr) 2007; 4: 4
    ABSTRACT: BACKGROUND: Evidence suggests an inverse relationship between soy protein intake and serum concentrations of male sex hormones. Anecdotal evidence indicates that these alterations in serum sex hormones may attenuate changes in lean body mass following resistance training. However, little empirical data exists regarding the effects of soy and milk-based proteins on circulating androgens and exercise induced body composition changes. METHODS: For 12 weeks 20 subjects were supplemented with 50 g per day of one of four different protein sources (Soy concentrate; Soy isolate; Soy isolate and whey blend, and Whey blend only) in combination with a resistance-training program. Body composition, testosterone, estradiol and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) were measured at baseline and week 12. RESULTS: Protein supplementation resulted in a significant increase in lean body mass independent of protein source (0.5 +/- 1.1 and 0.9 +/- 1.4 kg, p = 0.006, p = 0.007). No significant differences were observed between groups for total and free testosterone, SHBG, percentage body fat, BMI or body weight. The Testosterone/Estradiol ratio increased across all groups (+13.4, p = 0.005) and estradiol decreased (p = 0.002). Within group analysis showed significant increases in the Testosterone/Estradiol ratio in soy isolate + whey blend group (+16.3, p = 0.030). Estradiol was significantly lower in the whey blend group (-9.1 +/- 8.7 pg/ml, p = 0.033). CONCLUSION: This investigation shows that 12 week supplementation with soy protein does not decrease serum testosterone or inhibit lean body mass changes in subjects engaged in a resistance exercise program.
    Originally Posted by Soy protein isolates of varying isoflavone content exert minor effects on serum reproductive hormones in healthy young men. - B.L. Dillingham et al. - The Journal of nutrition (J Nutr) 2005 Mar; 135(3): 584-91
    Inverse associations between soy and prostate cancer and the contribution of hormones to prostate cancer prompted the current study to determine whether soy protein could alter serum hormones in men. Thirty-five men consumed milk protein isolate (MPI), low-isoflavone soy protein isolate (SPI) (low-iso SPI; 1.64 +/- 0.19 mg isoflavones/d), and high-iso SPI (61.7 +/- 7.35 mg isoflavones/d) for 57 d each in a randomized crossover design. Twenty-four-hour urine samples indicated that urinary isoflavones were significantly increased by the high-iso SPI relative to the low-iso SPI and MPI. Serum collected on d 1, 29, and 57 of each treatment revealed that dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and DHT/testosterone were significantly decreased by the low-iso SPI [9.4% (P = 0.036) and 9.0% (P = 0.004), respectively] and the high-iso SPI [15% (P = 0.047) and 14% (P = 0.013), respectively], compared with the MPI at d 57. Other significant effects included a decrease in testosterone by the low-iso SPI relative to the MPI (P = 0.023) and high-iso SPI (P = 0.020) at d 29; an increase in dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate by the low-iso SPI relative to the MPI at d 29 (P = 0.001) and relative to the MPI (P = 0.0003) and high-iso SPI (P = 0.005) at d 57; and increases in estradiol and estrone by the low-iso SPI relative to the MPI at d 57 (P = 0.010 and P = 0.005, respectively). In conclusion, soy protein, regardless of isoflavone content, decreased DHT and DHT/testosterone with minor effects on other hormones, providing evidence for some effects of soy protein on hormones. The relevance of the magnitude of these effects to future prostate cancer risk requires further investigation.
    Originally Posted by Soy milk intake in relation to serum sex hormone levels in British men. - N.E. Allen et al - Nutrition and cancer (Nutr Cancer) 2001; 41(1-2): 41-6
    Soy beans contain high levels of the isoflavones genistein and daidzein and their glycosides and have been implicated in the prevention of prostate cancer, possibly via their effects on sex hormone metabolism. The aim of this study was to assess the relation between dietary soy intake and sex hormone levels in a cross-sectional analysis of 696 men with a wide range of soy intakes. Soy milk intake was measured using a validated semiquantitative food frequency questionnaire, and serum hormone concentrations were measured by immunoassay. Multiple regression was used to investigate the association between soy milk intake, an index of isoflavone intake, and hormone levels after adjustment for pertinent confounders. Soy milk intake was not associated with serum concentrations of testosterone, free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide, sex hormone-binding globulin, or luteinizing hormone. These results suggest that soy milk intake, as a marker of isoflavone intake, is not associated with serum sex hormone concentrations among free-living Western men.
    Originally Posted by Effect of soymilk consumption on serum estrogen and androgen concentrations in Japanese men. - C. Nagata et al - Cancer epidemiology, biomarkers & prevention : a publication of the American Association for Cancer Research, cosponsored by the American Society of Preventive Oncology (Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev) 2001 Mar; 10(3): 179-84
    Soy consumption has been associated with a reduced risk of prostate cancer. The mechanism for this association may involve the effect of soy on the endocrine system. We conducted a randomized dietary intervention study to determine the effects of soy consumption on serum levels of steroid hormones in men. Thirty-five men were randomly assigned to either a soymilk-supplemented group or a control group. The men in the soy-supplemented group were asked to consume 400 ml of soymilk daily for 8 weeks. The men in the control group maintained their usual diet. Blood samples were obtained just before the initiation of the dietary period and thereafter every two weeks for 12 weeks. Changes in hormone concentrations were analyzed and compared between the two groups using the mixed linear regression model against weeks from the start of the dietary period. The mean (SD) soymilk intake estimated from dietary records during the dietary study period was 342.9 (SD, 74.2) ml in the soymilk-supplemented group. There was a significant difference between the two groups in terms of changes in serum estrone concentrations, which tended to decrease in the soy-supplemented group and increase in the control group over time. None of the other hormones measured (estradiol, total and free-testosterone, or sex hormone-binding globulin) showed any statistical difference between the two groups in terms of patterns of change. The results of the study indicate that soymilk consumption may modify circulating estrone concentrations in men.
    Originally Posted by Isoflavone-rich soy protein isolate suppresses androgen receptor expression without altering estrogen receptor-beta expression or serum hormonal profiles in men at high risk of prostate cancer. - J.M. Hamilton-Reeves et al - The Journal of nutrition (J Nutr) 2007 Jul; 137(7): 1769-75
    The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of soy protein isolate consumption on circulating hormone profiles and hormone receptor expression patterns in men at high risk for developing advanced prostate cancer. Fifty-eight men were randomly assigned to consume 1 of 3 protein isolates containing 40 g/d protein: 1) soy protein isolate (SPI+) (107 mg/d isoflavones); 2) alcohol-washed soy protein isolate (SPI-) (<6 mg/d isoflavones); or 3) milk protein isolate (0 mg/d isoflavones). For 6 mo, the men consumed the protein isolates in divided doses twice daily as a partial meal replacement. Serum samples collected at 0, 3, and 6 mo were analyzed for circulating estradiol, estrone, sex hormone-binding globulin, androstenedione, androstanediol glucuronide, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, dihydrotestosterone, testosterone, and free testosterone concentrations by RIA. Prostate biopsy samples obtained pre- and postintervention were analyzed for androgen receptor (AR) and estrogen receptor-beta expression by immunohistochemistry. At 6 mo, consumption of SPI+ significantly suppressed AR expression but did not alter estrogen receptor-beta expression or circulating hormones. Consumption of SPI- significantly increased estradiol and androstenedione concentrations, and tended to suppress AR expression (P = 0.09). Although the effects of SPI- consumption on estradiol and androstenedione are difficult to interpret and the clinical relevance is uncertain, these data show that AR expression in the prostate is suppressed by soy protein isolate consumption, which may be beneficial in preventing prostate cancer.
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    not hyooge but healthy dustinlima's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Age: 24
    Stats: 5'9", 159 lbs
    Posts: 552
    Rep Power: 1192
    dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit dustinlima's BodySpace
    dustinlima is offline
    Other animal studies:
    Originally Posted by Dietary soy protein containing isoflavonoids does not adversely affect the reproductive tract of male cynomolgus macaques (Macaca fascicularis). - D.L. Perry et al - The Journal of nutrition (J Nutr) 2007 Jun; 137(6): 1390-4
    Short-term dietary studies of soy-protein-derived isoflavonoids, using rodent and nonhuman primate models, have documented variable effects on the reproductive tract. Long-term effects of dietary soy and/or isoflavonoids on the reproductive tract of nonhuman primates have not been determined. The objective of this study was to assess the effects of long-term consumption of dietary soy isoflavonoids on histomorphology of the mammary glands and prostate gland, testis, and sperm counts in adult male cynomolgus macaques. Ninety-one adult male cynomolgus macaques (Macaca fascicularis) were fed diets for 3 y differing only in protein source: 1) a soy-free, casein-lactalbumin-based diet or 2) a low-soy isoflavonoid diet ( approximately 6 mg . kg(-1) . d(-1)) or 3) a high-soy isoflavonoid diet ( approximately 12 mg . kg(-1) . d(-1)). Serum isoflavonoids were measured by liquid chromatographic-photodiode array electrospray MS. Mammary gland, prostate gland, and testes were obtained at postmortem and evaluated histopathologically and histomorphometrically. Epididymal and testicular sperm counts were performed. Serum isoflavonoid concentrations at 4 h postfeeding differed among all groups (P < 0.001) and were (means +/- SEM) 67 +/- 23 (soy-free diet), 799 +/- 44 (low-soy isoflavonoid diet), and 1458 +/- 80 nmol . L(-1) (high-soy isoflavonoid diet). Diet did not alter serum estradiol and testosterone concentrations or epididymal and testicular sperm counts. Organ weights and histologic indices did not differ among treatment groups. Mammary gland histopathologic and histomorphometric analysis revealed no abnormalities and no indication of gynecomastia. We found no evidence of an adverse effect of soy isoflavonoids at physiologically relevant doses within the reproductive organs of adult male macaques.
    Originally Posted by Increased serum and testicular androgen levels in F1 rats with lifetime exposure to soy isoflavones. - M.J. McVey - Reproductive toxicology (Elmsford, N.Y.) (Reprod Toxicol) 2004 Jul; 18(5): 677-85
    The consequences of dietary soy isoflavones on serum and testicular androgen levels were examined in F1 male rats from a multigeneration study investigating the effects of diets varying in isoflavone content. Rats were fed either a soy-free casein based diet (AIN93G) or a diet in which alcohol-washed soy protein replaced casein as the protein source and to which increasing amounts of Novasoy, a commercially available isoflavone supplement were added. Analysis of these diets showed that the isoflavone content in each diet was 0 (diet 1; casein based control), 31.7 (diet 2; alcohol-washed soy-based diet control), 36.1 (diet 3), 74.5 (diet 4), 235.6 (diet 5) and 1046.6 (diet 6) mg total isoflavones/kg pelleted diet. The levels of isoflavones in diet 1 would represent a daily intake level of 0 mg isoflavones, diets 2 and 3 estimate a low soy-containing human diet (e.g. North American), diet 4 would correspond to Asian diets (e.g. Japanese) or adult humans taking isoflavone supplements, diet 5 approximates the isoflavone intake by babies fed soy based infant formula and diet 6 approximates fivefold the intake levels by babies or 10-fold the intake levels of adults consuming high isoflavone containing diets. Serum testosterone (T) from F1 male rats sacrificed on postnatal days (PND) 28, 70, 120, 240 and 360 were low at PND 28 (0.4 ng/ml), increased approximately five to sixfold at PND 70 (2.5-3.0 ng/ml) and thereafter declined to a steady state level of approximately 1 ng/ml by PND 120. However, rats on diets 5 and 6 demonstrated altered serum testosterone profiles such that at days 120, testosterone levels remained significantly elevated at approximately 3 ng/ml (P < 0.05). Serum dihydrotestosterone levels exhibited similar profiles and the levels in PND 120 rats on diet 5 or 6 were also significantly elevated (two to threefold, P < 0.05). The intra-testicular testosterone concentration in rats on diet 5 was also elevated at PND 120 compared with diet 1 (P < 0.05). These findings show that F1 male rats continuously exposed to a mixture of dietary soy isoflavones from conception onwards exhibit altered serum and testicular androgen profiles.
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Polski. wanaBsedated's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2005
    Location: United States
    Age: 35
    Stats: 6'1", 240 lbs
    Posts: 12,688
    BodyPoints: 25616
    Rep Power: 5611
    wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit wanaBsedated's BodySpace
    wanaBsedated is offline
    Originally Posted by dustinlima View Post
    Other animal studies:
    am i reading this wrong or does it say that the testosterone levels were significantly elevated on dit 6, the ultra high soy diet(last paragraph)?
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    not hyooge but healthy dustinlima's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Age: 24
    Stats: 5'9", 159 lbs
    Posts: 552
    Rep Power: 1192
    dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) dustinlima has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit dustinlima's BodySpace
    dustinlima is offline
    Originally Posted by wanaBsedated View Post
    am i reading this wrong or does it say that the testosterone levels were significantly elevated on dit 6, the ultra high soy diet(last paragraph)?
    no, it says that... the only thing i can think of is homeostasis producing lots of testosterone to counteract lots of phytoestrogen ?

    either way, i think the jury is still out on this one. and even if it does reduce testosterone, not by as much as the anti-soy scare is expressing...
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Polski. wanaBsedated's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2005
    Location: United States
    Age: 35
    Stats: 6'1", 240 lbs
    Posts: 12,688
    BodyPoints: 25616
    Rep Power: 5611
    wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) wanaBsedated has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit wanaBsedated's BodySpace
    wanaBsedated is offline
    Originally Posted by dustinlima View Post
    no, it says that... the only thing i can think of is homeostasis producing lots of testosterone to counteract lots of phytoestrogen ?

    either way, i think the jury is still out on this one. and even if it does reduce testosterone, not by as much as the anti-soy scare is expressing...
    Well soy seems to have a lot of benefits and there is little evidence on its affect on test in any negative way.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Registered User Kthomas...EST's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2007
    Age: 38
    Posts: 260
    Rep Power: 2273
    Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Kthomas...EST has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Kthomas...EST is offline
    Originally Posted by wanaBsedated View Post
    Well soy seems to have a lot of benefits and there is little evidence on its affect on test in any negative way.
    There is actually some interesting info out there --- in regard to soy isolate/with Whey isolate.... Positive...

    As for testosterone ( & soy), well.... Yes, jury is out still.... BUT, your age plays a role as well..... so....


    KT
    KT
    Keith Thomas, Founder
    www.ESTnutrition.com

    PLASMATIC ....... check it out in the Bodybuilding store!
    Reply With Quote

Reply

Similar Threads

  1. What's the deal with tomatoes supressing testosterone?
    By Brundle-Fly in forum Nutrition
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 02:46 PM
  2. Soy Milk...what's the deal?
    By Another Texan in forum Teen Bodybuilding
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-19-2005, 04:35 PM
  3. What's the deal with soy protein?
    By Cutler_s son in forum Nutrition
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-25-2005, 11:18 AM
  4. Not losing fat. What's the deal?
    By iamchris in forum Losing Fat
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-27-2002, 09:51 PM
  5. Replies: 30
    Last Post: 06-20-2002, 01:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Home Store Products Careers Help Contact Us Terms of Use Checkout