Endurance/Cardio ?

[JTwood]

I know how weightlifting affects muscles and why the get bigger/strong when trained. but what i dont understand is how someones endurance is increased. Weight lifting the muscles get microscopic tears then heal making them bigger and stronger....correct? so lets say you wanted to be able to run 5k without stopping but can only run 1k, after months of training what is it that actually was affected? is it mental or cardiovascular?

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by JTwood

I know how weightlifting affects muscles and why the get bigger/strong when trained. but what i dont understand is how someones endurance is increased. Weight lifting the muscles get microscopic tears then heal making them bigger and stronger....correct? so lets say you wanted to be able to run 5k without stopping but can only run 1k, after months of training what is it that actually was affected? is it mental or cardiovascular?

It will naturally be cardiovascular because you haven't trained to run 5k. If you want to run 5k then you need to start running and build it up. Also you have to look at your body and it's build.

Unfortunately you can't have both, big muscles and run a half marathon/marathon. Have you ever seen a big/muscular guy run a marathon? No, why? Because not only do they have a a lot of muscle to carry around with them, that muscle needs oxygen and the body will not able to supply enough O2 to those muscles when doing anything that requires endurance.

Also you have to think of the muscle fibres that has been built up with weight training. In body building you are looking to build up your Type II or fast twitch muscle fibres. These muscle fibres are good at explosive movements. They are white in colour and have very few mitochondria. It is mitochondria that provides energy to the muscle, they are the power house of the muscle if you like. Having very few of these means the muscle tires easily.

These muscle fibres also use the anaerobic energy system, which means they don't use oxygen for energy. This means there are limited supplies of the chemicals needed in order to provide energy to your muscles

A marathon runner will have more Type I or slow twitch muscle fibres. These muscle fibres are red in colour and have plenty of oxygen readily available to use for energy. They also have an abundance of mitochondria. This means they have a lot of energy cells providing the muscle with the energy needed in order to do the task. As they are slow to react they are more suited to tasks such as long distance running.

This then brings us into the gym, don't forget that not all weight training brings about strength and bigger muscles. That's why we have the different rep ranges. By training in the higher rep ranges, the amount of weight stress you put your muscles under is far less. What you are doing is teaching your muscle the all important word endurance. Yes I would imagine some muscle will be built however, it will be nothing compared to that in the 8 - 12 rep range. Not only that they will be working on their slow twitch muscles.

All that being said though we go right back to the beginning a body builder could never be a marathon runner without some seriously hard work on their part.

[motovilova]

Mindi, that was such as informative and well formed answer! I learned so much and I wasn't even the one asking!

Good job!
Irene

[Outdoor Girl]

+1 Great explanation, Mindi.

[JTwood]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

It will naturally be cardiovascular because you haven't trained to run 5k. If you want to run 5k then you need to start running and build it up. Also you have to look at your body and it's build.

Unfortunately you can't have both, big muscles and run a half marathon/marathon. Have you ever seen a big/muscular guy run a marathon? No, why? Because not only do they have a a lot of muscle to carry around with them, that muscle needs oxygen and the body will not able to supply enough O2 to those muscles when doing anything that requires endurance.

Also you have to think of the muscle fibres that has been built up with weight training. In body building you are looking to build up your Type II or fast twitch muscle fibres. These muscle fibres are good at explosive movements. They are white in colour and have very few mitochondria. It is mitochondria that provides energy to the muscle, they are the power house of the muscle if you like. Having very few of these means the muscle tires easily.

These muscle fibres also use the anaerobic energy system, which means they don't use oxygen for energy. This means there are limited supplies of the chemicals needed in order to provide energy to your muscles

A marathon runner will have more Type I or slow twitch muscle fibres. These muscle fibres are red in colour and have plenty of oxygen readily available to use for energy. They also have an abundance of mitochondria. This means they have a lot of energy cells providing the muscle with the energy needed in order to do the task. As they are slow to react they are more suited to tasks such as long distance running.

This then brings us into the gym, don't forget that not all weight training brings about strength and bigger muscles. That's why we have the different rep ranges. By training in the higher rep ranges, the amount of weight stress you put your muscles under is far less. What you are doing is teaching your muscle the all important word endurance. Yes I would imagine some muscle will be built however, it will be nothing compared to that in the 8 - 12 rep range. Not only that they will be working on their slow twitch muscles.

All that being said though we go right back to the beginning a body builder could never be a marathon runner without some seriously hard work on their part.

great explanation,

My goal is not to be a long distance runner by any means. I was just curious of what is actually tought to be able to run or do cardio for long periods of time. Now i know.

This is also why you will see that 100M sprinters are usually more muscular. I am taking Muay Thai and could possibly be fighting one of these days but i dont want to become some shrimp fighet. I wouldnt let that happen anyways, lifting comes before thai in my case.

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by JTwood

great explanation,

My goal is not to be a long distance runner by any means. I was just curious of what is actually tought to be able to run or do cardio for long periods of time. Now i know.

This is also why you will see that 100M sprinters are usually more muscular. I am taking Muay Thai and could possibly be fighting one of these days but i dont want to become some shrimp fighet. I wouldnt let that happen anyways, lifting comes before thai in my case.

just because you have muscle doesn't mean you can't run. Like I said it's just going to be a little harder for you at first. I would say you definitely need to do cardio just for health reasons. You like keeping your body looking healthy, so why not look after your heart in the same way.

Also think of this, the better your heart functions, the more blood can be pumped around your body. This means that everything is going to be to function more efficiently.

Of course there are various ideas about what cardio works for bb'ers and not losing too much muscle mass. I am in the belief that HIIT will help me lose fat but not burn too much muscle mass however some work better with LISS.

As for your Mauy Thai I guess you aren't that serious about it which is fine. I do BJJ and MMA. When I first started training, I was like, "I can do bb'ing or rather a bb'ing routine and BJJ at the same no problem." My coach and a PT friend of mine kept telling me it wouldn't work. It took me six months for me to discover they were right. For you to be effective in anything like BJJ/MMA/Muay Thai, you need your explosive muscles yes but you also need endurance. This means you can't have unnecessary muscle. It doesn't mean you can be muscular because that's going to come naturally but the muscle you build up doing iso movements becomes redundant when you are in the ring. Your body needs to supply oxygen to muscles that aren't being used. You will tire quickly and you won't go the distance is as good a shape as you could if you followed a fighter's workout.

[potatoe]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

It will naturally be cardiovascular because you haven't trained to run 5k. If you want to run 5k then you need to start running and build it up. Also you have to look at your body and it's build.

Unfortunately you can't have both, big muscles and run a half marathon/marathon. Have you ever seen a big/muscular guy run a marathon? No, why? Because not only do they have a a lot of muscle to carry around with them, that muscle needs oxygen and the body will not able to supply enough O2 to those muscles when doing anything that requires endurance.

Also you have to think of the muscle fibres that has been built up with weight training. In body building you are looking to build up your Type II or fast twitch muscle fibres. These muscle fibres are good at explosive movements. They are white in colour and have very few mitochondria. It is mitochondria that provides energy to the muscle, they are the power house of the muscle if you like. Having very few of these means the muscle tires easily.

These muscle fibres also use the anaerobic energy system, which means they don't use oxygen for energy. This means there are limited supplies of the chemicals needed in order to provide energy to your muscles

A marathon runner will have more Type I or slow twitch muscle fibres. These muscle fibres are red in colour and have plenty of oxygen readily available to use for energy. They also have an abundance of mitochondria. This means they have a lot of energy cells providing the muscle with the energy needed in order to do the task. As they are slow to react they are more suited to tasks such as long distance running.

This then brings us into the gym, don't forget that not all weight training brings about strength and bigger muscles. That's why we have the different rep ranges. By training in the higher rep ranges, the amount of weight stress you put your muscles under is far less. What you are doing is teaching your muscle the all important word endurance. Yes I would imagine some muscle will be built however, it will be nothing compared to that in the 8 - 12 rep range. Not only that they will be working on their slow twitch muscles.

All that being said though we go right back to the beginning a body builder could never be a marathon runner without some seriously hard work on their part.

I thought slow twitch was for explosive, fast twitch for endurance....

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by potatoe

I thought slow twitch was for explosive, fast twitch for endurance....

No spudster..

Slow Twitch (Type I)
The slow muscles are more efficient at using oxygen to generate more fuel (known as ATP) for continuous, extended muscle contractions over a long time. They fire more slowly than fast twitch fibers and can go for a long time before they fatigue. Therefore, slow twitch fibers are great at helping athletes run marathons and bicycle for hours.

Fast Twitch (Type II)
Because fast twitch fibers use anaerobic metabolism to create fuel, they are much better at generating short bursts of strength or speed than slow muscles. However, they fatigue more quickly. Fast twitch fibers generally produce the same amount of force per contraction as slow muscles, but they get their name because they are able to fire more rapidly. Having more fast twitch fibers can be an asset to a sprinter since she needs to quickly generate a lot of force.

[potatoe]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

No spudster..

Slow Twitch (Type I)
The slow muscles are more efficient at using oxygen to generate more fuel (known as ATP) for continuous, extended muscle contractions over a long time. They fire more slowly than fast twitch fibers and can go for a long time before they fatigue. Therefore, slow twitch fibers are great at helping athletes run marathons and bicycle for hours.

Fast Twitch (Type II)
Because fast twitch fibers use anaerobic metabolism to create fuel, they are much better at generating short bursts of strength or speed than slow muscles. However, they fatigue more quickly. Fast twitch fibers generally produce the same amount of force per contraction as slow muscles, but they get their name because they are able to fire more rapidly. Having more fast twitch fibers can be an asset to a sprinter since she needs to quickly generate a lot of force.

O'rly? Thats funny because...

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/a...eFiberType.htm

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by potatoe

O'rly? Thats funny because...

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/a...eFiberType.htm

yeah I think they are saying exactly the same thing I said.

[WhiteDiamonds]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

yeah I think they are saying exactly the same thing I said.

Great explanation Mindi911

What about cyclist? They always seem to have such low levels of body fat, they look lean not skinny, as opposed to a marathon runner? So, are they using a combination of both fast and slow twitch muscles?

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by WhiteDiamonds

Great explanation Mindi911

What about cyclist? They always seem to have such low levels of body fat, they look lean not skinny, as opposed to a marathon runner? So, are they using a combination of both fast and slow twitch muscles?

It has been shown that your Olympic sprinters have more than 80 % type II a muscle fibres in their muscle composition. Personally I think your elite athletes, especially your cyclists, sprinters and such like (not just your Olympic sprinters) have larger proportion of your type II a muscle fibres. Which whilst they are predominately fast twitch fibres they also have an unusually larger amount of mitochondria. They are if you like half way between type I and type II fibres, they are known as your intermediate muscle fibres. Whilst they are fast twitch they can also act like your slow twitch muscles in that they have more endurance than your type II b fibres.

[WhiteDiamonds]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

It has been shown that your Olympic sprinters have more than 80 % type II a muscle fibres in their muscle composition. Personally I think your elite athletes, especially your cyclists, sprinters and such like (not just your Olympic sprinters) have larger proportion of your type II a muscle fibres. Which whilst they are predominately fast twitch fibres they also have an unusually larger amount of mitochondria. They are if you like half way between type I and type II fibres, they are known as your intermediate muscle fibres. Whilst they are fast twitch they can also act like your slow twitch muscles in that they have more endurance than your type II b fibres.

I see, thanks for the info.

[JTwood]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

just because you have muscle doesn't mean you can't run. Like I said it's just going to be a little harder for you at first. I would say you definitely need to do cardio just for health reasons. You like keeping your body looking healthy, so why not look after your heart in the same way.

Also think of this, the better your heart functions, the more blood can be pumped around your body. This means that everything is going to be to function more efficiently.

Of course there are various ideas about what cardio works for bb'ers and not losing too much muscle mass. I am in the belief that HIIT will help me lose fat but not burn too much muscle mass however some work better with LISS.

As for your Mauy Thai I guess you aren't that serious about it which is fine. I do BJJ and MMA. When I first started training, I was like, "I can do bb'ing or rather a bb'ing routine and BJJ at the same no problem." My coach and a PT friend of mine kept telling me it wouldn't work. It took me six months for me to discover they were right. For you to be effective in anything like BJJ/MMA/Muay Thai, you need your explosive muscles yes but you also need endurance. This means you can't have unnecessary muscle. It doesn't mean you can be muscular because that's going to come naturally but the muscle you build up doing iso movements becomes redundant when you are in the ring. Your body needs to supply oxygen to muscles that aren't being used. You will tire quickly and you won't go the distance is as good a shape as you could if you followed a fighter's workout.

your right, im not into thai like im into powerlifting. muay thai was more of a sparatic choice just to take over the summer just to learn some ass kicking moves (not rly) more or less self defense and every one i talked to loved it. i do know a guy that fights their and he is pretty big, not bodybuilder big but probably 5'10 180 lean, he lifts weights a few days per week and fights competitively. Look at the UFC, they have weight classes and the middle/heavy weights are pretty damn big and lean. obviously they probably dont have the same endurance as some of the lighter guys but at that weight class its not expected, correct?

Tell me if this makes sense: If you putt 100% effort into lifting and mma of some type, ate enough to keep weight, wouldn't you just stay relatively the exact same and your cardio would just imrpove?

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by JTwood

your right, im not into thai like im into powerlifting. muay thai was more of a sparatic choice just to take over the summer just to learn some ass kicking moves (not rly) more or less self defense and every one i talked to loved it. i do know a guy that fights their and he is pretty big, not bodybuilder big but probably 5'10 180 lean, he lifts weights a few days per week and fights competitively. Look at the UFC, they have weight classes and the middle/heavy weights are pretty damn big and lean. obviously they probably dont have the same endurance as some of the lighter guys but at that weight class its not expected, correct?

Tell me if this makes sense: If you putt 100% effort into lifting and mma of some type, ate enough to keep weight, wouldn't you just stay relatively the exact same and your cardio would just imrpove?

Those guys don't do anything like a bodybuilding routine. Have you heard of functional strength? They will not isolate a muscle and work on it. They stick to compound and power movements. A bb'ing routine is totally different and unfortunately to two really do not mix.

Have you seen a fighter that could step up on to a bb'ing stage? Nope, why? Because they just don't build their muscle in the same way. Yes you have the heavy weight division, don't forget their natural build has a lot do with it.

A guy who has a medium build naturally does not want to put on so much weight that takes into a whole new weight category. Which would a fighter be better at? Fighting at the bottom end of a higher weight category or fighting at the top of his natural weight category?

[TheAmazon]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

just because you have muscle doesn't mean you can't run. Like I said it's just going to be a little harder for you at first. I would say you definitely need to do cardio just for health reasons. You like keeping your body looking healthy, so why not look after your heart in the same way.

Also think of this, the better your heart functions, the more blood can be pumped around your body. This means that everything is going to be to function more efficiently.

Of course there are various ideas about what cardio works for bb'ers and not losing too much muscle mass. I am in the belief that HIIT will help me lose fat but not burn too much muscle mass however some work better with LISS.

As for your Mauy Thai I guess you aren't that serious about it which is fine. I do BJJ and MMA. When I first started training, I was like, "I can do bb'ing or rather a bb'ing routine and BJJ at the same no problem." My coach and a PT friend of mine kept telling me it wouldn't work. It took me six months for me to discover they were right. For you to be effective in anything like BJJ/MMA/Muay Thai, you need your explosive muscles yes but you also need endurance. This means you can't have unnecessary muscle. It doesn't mean you can be muscular because that's going to come naturally but the muscle you build up doing iso movements becomes redundant when you are in the ring. Your body needs to supply oxygen to muscles that aren't being used. You will tire quickly and you won't go the distance is as good a shape as you could if you followed a fighter's workout.

i'm half way interested in fighting ( did sanshou for a bit, ) but nobody is in my weight class, but i am curious, could you detail a fighters workout please?!

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by TheAmazon

i'm half way interested in fighting ( did sanshou for a bit, ) but nobody is in my weight class, but i am curious, could you detail a fighters workout please?!

I do believe I answered this question in my previous post.

You are looking to stick to compound movements, power movements, plyometrics, etc..,