Birthers Desperate - Grasping for Straws

SDMuscleBuddy · 07-22-2009, 08:48 AM

Since the Executive Order fiasco which was posted on Ron Paul's site and here, and which has since been retracted, the Birther's Messiah has issued the latest weak attempt to challenge the president's eligibility:

Quote:

According to Dr. Taitz it makes no difference if Obama was born in the White House, in the Lincoln bedroom...he would not be a natural born citizen. This is because his father was never a citizen, he was a British citizen due to the fact that Kenya was at one time a British colony. And when Kenya gained their independence he would have been a Kenyan citizen. She said that a natural born citizen is someone whose parents do not owe allegiance to another country. Obama's father owed allegiance to Britain and later to Kenya.

Therefore, Obama is not a NATURAL born citizen and can not be president.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/100338

Unfortunately, there is no such rule regarding ones parents in determining if one is a "natural born citizen". In fact, according to Wikipedia, "The term "natural born Citizen" has never been defined by the Courts in the course of a Presidential qualification challenge. It is believed by some people, including some of the so-called "birthers," that this provision means that only persons born on U.S. soil to two U.S. citizens are "natural born Citizens" of the nation and eligible to become President. There are others who believe that anyone who acquires citizenship by any means other than naturalization is a "natural born Citizen" and eligible for the Presidency. In between these extremes lie gray areas..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural..._United_States

Fact: The state of Hawaii has issued a "Certification of Live Birth", which is what is issued when you request a copy of your birth certificate and is based on official Hawaiian records, confirming that Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, and his mother was a citizen of the US. A certification is what is issued when you request a copy of your birth certificate. The validity of this was confirmed by the Governor.

Fact: Every (numerous) challenge to the presidents eligiblity has been shot down in court.

Fact: The Birther's Messiah keeps changing the basis of his challenge. First the certification was a forgery. Then it is something the state will issue to anyone. Now it doesn't matter because his father was not a citizen. Clearly this man is desperate, for attention.

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 08:53 AM

You are bringing up strawman arguements. No one (with any sense) is denying that he is a citizen. His mom is a citizen, he could have been born on Mars and it wouldnt have mattered. He is absolutely a citizen.

What the "birthers" want to know is very simple. Why wont he release his documents?? It not just his birth certificate, it's his academic records, medicial records, etc. He wont release anything, WHY? Unless you can answer that then you lose the argument.

Melkor · 07-22-2009, 08:58 AM

I'm not a birther at all, but I still question why he hasn't just released his birth certificate. There's got to be some reason that he has fought so hard to keep his birth certificate hidden, and I want to know why. I still assume it's because his daddy wasn't his real daddy. His mom was apparently a slutty type and slept with quite a few rich/famous black men in the area. Apparently there are pics out there of her in revealing poses at some other man's house while she was married to Mr. Obama (BO's dad). I haven't researched that angle, but that's what a couple people I know who have looked into have told me.

What's so crazy about wanting to see his birth certificate anyway?

T150 · 07-22-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

You are bringing up strawman arguements. No one (with any sense) is denying that he is a citizen. His mom is a citizen, he could have been born on Mars and it wouldnt have mattered. He is absolutely a citizen.

What the "birthers" want to know is very simple. Why wont he release his documents?? It not just his birth certificate, it's his academic records, medicial records, etc. He wont release anything, WHY? Unless you can answer that then you lose the argument.

What documents need releasing?

SDMuscleBuddy · 07-22-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor

I'm not a birther at all, but I still question why he hasn't just released his birth certificate. There's got to be some reason that he has fought so hard to keep his birth certificate hidden, and I want to know why. I still assume it's because his daddy wasn't his real daddy. His mom was apparently a slutty type and slept with quite a few rich/famous black men in the area. Apparently there are pics out there of her in revealing poses at some other man's house while she was married to Mr. Obama (BO's dad). I haven't researched that angle, but that's what a couple people I know who have looked into have told me.

What's so crazy about wanting to see his birth certificate anyway?

Do you have your birth certificate? I don't. I have an official copy issued by the state in which I was born, and it is adequate for any legal need I may have.

SGMD1 · 07-22-2009, 09:03 AM

Orly Taitz got her law degree from an online correspondence school and her colleague on the case Charles Lincoln has been disbarred in California, Texas, and Florida.

The birthers are a bunch of circus clowns with very appropriate legal representation.

SDMuscleBuddy · 07-22-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

You are bringing up strawman arguements. No one (with any sense) is denying that he is a citizen. His mom is a citizen, he could have been born on Mars and it wouldnt have mattered. He is absolutely a citizen.

What the "birthers" want to know is very simple. Why wont he release his documents?? It not just his birth certificate, it's his academic records, medicial records, etc. He wont release anything, WHY? Unless you can answer that then you lose the argument.

How do I lose, by you changing the argument? They called "birthers" and not "documenters" or whatever. Furthermore, Obama's medical records have been released, and his Harvard records have as well. None of that has come up before, and it has always been about his eligibility, of which no one has shown to have any doubt at all.

flabtoabs · 07-22-2009, 09:05 AM

at this point
obama is better off not showing anything.
the lols are just too great and keeping the failed party busy.

hwpnow · 07-22-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor

I'm not a birther at all, but I still question why he hasn't just released his birth certificate.

Which other President can you name that has "released his birth certificate"? Can you provide a link to it so we can see it and verify that it is authentic?

So I assume that the work factcheck.org has done, the photos of the actual birth certificate held by factcheck.org and photographed, the seal, the Hawaiian newspaper featuring an article talking about his birth that year is "not releasing and keeping things hidden".

Are you looking for a time machine to be in the room with Obama's mother when she gives birth? Do you need a sit down interview with the doctors and nurses who assisted her (given that they are still alive)?

Which other President has received this type of scrutiny? And what other factor can possibly explain it besides racism?

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T150

What documents need releasing?

Typically when people run for president they will release all of those documents (birth medical, academic, etc), or what ever documents are asked for. It?s all part of the discloser process. So people know who they are electing. For example, What if McCain had been dying of cancer or something (he is old)?? That's something the American people would want to know. McCain and Palin both released all of those documents. Bush and Kerry did, pretty much everyone does. I don?t think there has ever been anyone who hasn?t.

Im with Melkor, Its definitely not a citizenship issue, I think it's something else. It could be something minor where everyone would be like, "Oh, well who cares", but the fact is, he wont do it.

SDMuscleBuddy · 07-22-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

Typically when people run for president they will release all of those documents (birth medical, academic, etc), or what ever documents are asked for. It?s all part of the discloser process. So people know who they are electing. For example, What if McCain had been dying of cancer or something (he is old)?? That's something the American people would want to know. McCain and Palin both released all of those documents. Bush and Kerry did, pretty much everyone does. I don?t think there has ever been anyone who hasn?t.

Im with Melkor, Its definitely not a citizenship issue, I think it's something else. It could be something minor where everyone would be like, "Oh, well who cares", but the fact is, he wont do it.

Won't do what? The information has been disclosed.

grup910 · 07-22-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flabtoabs

at this point
obama is better off not showing anything.
the lols are just too great and keeping the failed party busy.

x1000

This whole thing is just driving more nails into the GOP coffin.

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDMuscleBuddy

Won't do what? The information has been disclosed.

Really?? what kind of grades did he get at Harvard?

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grup910

x1000

This whole thing is just driving more nails into the GOP coffin.

The "birthers" dont affect the Republicans anymore than the "truthers" hurt the democrats.

SDMuscleBuddy · 07-22-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

Really?? what kind of grades did he get at Harvard?

Not relevant to his eligibility to be president.

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDMuscleBuddy

Obama's medical records have been released, and his Harvard records have as well.

Wrong and wrong..

They released a one page document saying he was in good health, they never released his personal medicical records.

and I'll be waiting for you or SDMuscleBuddy to tell me what kind of grades he got at Harvard... good luck with that.

grup910 · 07-22-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

The "birthers" dont affect the Republicans anymore than the "truthers" hurt the democrats.

We'll see about that.

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDMuscleBuddy

Not relevant to his eligibility to be president.

You are right it's not, but everyone still does it. The question is.. Why wont he release his??

You said it's been disclosed, so pony up. Provide a link to the information that you said has been disclosed.

ElMariachi · 07-22-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDMuscleBuddy

How do I lose, by you changing the argument? They called "birthers" and not "documenters" or whatever. Furthermore, Obama's medical records have been released, and his Harvard records have as well. None of that has come up before, and it has always been about his eligibility, of which no one has shown to have any doubt at all.

O RLY? Can you post a link where it says that he released ANY of his actual records???

Quote:

Documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.

Now quit making up stuff because you truly don't have an argument. If he's got nothing to hide, then at release the same stuff that most of the president's before him did.

SGMD1 · 07-22-2009, 09:34 AM

I have yet to see a single birther provide a source for any of their claims. In every thread I end up posting sources disproving right wing birther conspiracy stories and this thread is no exception it seems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor

I'm not a birther at all, but I still question why he hasn't just released his birth certificate.

It is against Hawaii law for the original birth certificate to be released to anyone:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaii.gov

The State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

Having said that, and in spite of the law, three government officials (the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, Registrar of Vital Statistics, and the Republican Governor of Hawaii who had been campaigning for McCain) all have seen the original and verified that it is on file in Hawaii:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor

There's got to be some reason that he has fought so hard to keep his birth certificate hidden, and I want to know why.

Obama has done absolutely nothing to keep his birth certificate a secret. If you can provide a source for this, I will never post here again.

Almost all states in this country release the short form when a birth certificate is requested. Hawaii is no exception. Why are you expecting the law to be broken for the original to be released? If the original is released, then no one in the future will be able to obtain one because Hawaii will no longer have it on file and thus will not be able to produce the short form (since the original is required for the short form even to be produced in the first place.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor

I still assume it's because his daddy wasn't his real daddy. His mom was apparently a slutty type and slept with quite a few rich/famous black men in the area. Apparently there are pics out there of her in revealing poses at some other man's house while she was married to Mr. Obama (BO's dad). I haven't researched that angle, but that's what a couple people I know who have looked into have told me.

Do you realize how embarrassing this makes you look? Do you have a single source for any of this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor

What's so crazy about wanting to see his birth certificate anyway?

The fact that it's against the law for the original to be released to anyone. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flabtoabs

at this point obama is better off not showing anything.
the lols are just too great and keeping the failed party busy.

Precisely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

What the "birthers" want to know is very simple. Why wont he release his documents?? Typically when people run for president they will release all of those documents (birth medical, academic, etc), or what ever documents are asked for.

Why are you changing your argument now? Obama's health and academic records are not at all what birthers are complaining about. Nice attempt at deflection though.

grup910 · 07-22-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

Wrong and wrong..

The released a one page document saying he was in good health, they never released his personal medicical records.

and I'll be waiting for you or SDMuscleBuddy to tell me what kind of grades he got at Harvard... good luck with that.

More desperate red herrings. You'd better pace yourselves, the election is still 3 1/2 years away.

What kind of grades did john mcsame get? What kind of grades did BU$H get, lol. I'm sure Obama - law graduate and president of the Harvard Law Review - did a little better in school than bu$h and john mccain. You righties didn't seem to disqualify those two on that basis - why the double standard?

SGMD1 · 07-22-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amtharin

what kind of grades he got at Harvard... good luck with that.

Harvard has confirmed that Obama graduated magna cum laude which means he graduated in the top 20% of his class.

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grup910

What kind of grades did john mcsame get? What kind of grades did BU$H get, lol. I'm sure Obama - law graduate and president of the Harvard Law Review - did a little better in school than bu$h and john mccain. You righties didn't seem to disqualify those two on that basis - why the double standard?

I know Bush had like a 2.75 GPA, which what higher than John Kerry's who had a 2.73. McCain ranked #894 of 899 so he was right at the bottom.

ElMariachi · 07-22-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGMD1

Harvard has confirmed that Obama graduated magna cum laude which means he graduated in the top 20% of his class.

Well great, then they should have no problem releasing his records as they claimed they would after the election was over.

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGMD1

Harvard has confirmed that Obama graduated magna cum laude which means he graduated in the top 20% of his class.

That's fine, but He has not released his records. I dont think its a grade issue. Like I said I think its something minor, like he changed his name or something.

SumblimeStyle · 07-22-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElMariachi

Well great, then they should have no problem releasing his records as they claimed they would after the election was over.

and completely ignore SGMD1's post, which is the most relevant to your argument.

amtharin · 07-22-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumblimeStyle

and completely ignore SGMD1's post, which is the most relevant to your argument.

Not to mine. Because I could really careless where he was born. He is a citizen because his mom was one.

marmadogg · 07-22-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flabtoabs

at this point
obama is better off not showing anything.
the lols are just too great and keeping the failed party busy.

^^^^^ this unfortunately.

marmadogg · 07-22-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElMariachi

Well great, then they should have no problem releasing his records as they claimed they would after the election was over.

This is just...well...sad...really...

Who cares? We are fcuked anyway!

hooked4life · 07-22-2009, 10:15 AM

So when birthers post links to youtube clips of angry middle-aged woman screaming about their fathers who fought in WWII and yelling that Obama is a citizen, you all mean is 'show us all your documents because ... what we want to see them all?'

I really attempt to understand both/all sides of US politics, but honestly, the whole birther thing is the one I have gotten the very least. Ever. You all just sound like a bunch of whinny pussies gripping at bull**** because you lost.