How has the ideal woman changed over time?

[snorkelman]

A Playboy Playmate is supposed to reflect what the "ideal" woman looks like, right?

I was reading an older issue of Wired magazine and those geeks actually figured out how to study playboy as part of their job. From the 1950's to the present, American women have steadily increased their Body Mass Index (BMI). However, Playboy Playmates have decreased their BMI.

While the BMI does not directly measure body fat, it is a number calculated from a person's weight and height and is a reliable indicator of body fatness for most people - bodybuilders have more muscle, which is heavy and would result in a BMI that indicates they are obese, but we are not talking about bodybuilders here.



Anyway, the research shows a trend of Playmates going from a BMI of 19.4 to 17.6

Here are some visuals that may get you thinking.







The article is available at the following website, but be warned, it contains some images that some people (boss/co-workers) might find offensive (I don't want anyone to unwittingly subject themselves to the claim that they created a hostile work environment by viewing this article). http://www.wired.com/images/article/...2_Infoporn.pdf

By the way, in 1997 Barbie's top-heavy figure (BMI of 16.2 - too skinny to work as a model in some European countries) was changed, resulting in a wider waist and narrower hips.

[DaddyR]

Hmmm it is true that what people consider ideal these days is further from the norm than ever before. I think that's true when it comes to both the male and female physique, however. When we use superlatives like "ideal" we tend to think in terms of extremes.

[G8GXP]

A Playboy Playmate is supposed to reflect what the "ideal" woman looks like, right?

I disagree. A playmate only represents a woman that ideally finds Hugh Heffner attractive.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

I disagree. A playmate only represents a woman that ideally finds Hugh Heffner attractive.

ding ding ding we have a winner............. LOL

[Fifty+]

A Playboy Playmate is supposed to reflect what the "ideal" woman looks like, right?

I was reading an older issue of Wired magazine and those geeks actually figured out how to study playboy as part of their job. From the 1950's to the present, American women have steadily increased their Body Mass Index (BMI). However, Playboy Playmates have decreased their BMI.

While the BMI does not directly measure body fat, it is a number calculated from a person's weight and height and is a reliable indicator of body fatness for most people - bodybuilders have more muscle, which is heavy and would result in a BMI that indicates they are obese, but we are not talking about bodybuilders here.



Anyway, the research shows a trend of Playmates going from a BMI of 19.4 to 17.6

Here are some visuals that may get you thinking.







The article is available at the following website, but be warned, it contains some images that some people (boss/co-workers) might find offensive (I don't want anyone to unwittingly subject themselves to the claim that they created a hostile work environment by viewing this article). http://www.wired.com/images/article/...2_Infoporn.pdf

By the way, in 1997 Barbie's top-heavy figure (BMI of 16.2 - too skinny to work as a model in some European countries) was changed, resulting in a wider waist and narrower hips.

How has the ideal woman changed over time?


Do you think we will ever get passed the point of using physical descriptions and sexual references to define women? The word "ideal" is extremely subjective.

[kimsquit]

Do you think we will ever get passed the point of using physical descriptions and sexual references to define women? The word "ideal" is extremely subjective.

I think that most men would agree that the ideal woman is a lot quieter than the current version

[T.C.]

I disagree. A playmate only represents a woman that ideally finds Hugh Heffner's money /lifestyle attractive.

Fixed!

[bayou_piper]

My wife and I had this conversation after watching an episode of Mad Men. The way women are portrayed both physically and their role in society is really striking.

However, I would definitely say that the ideal woman is darker these days. Halle Berry, Salma Hayek, Beyonce...

[geer_matt]

I think that most men would agree that the ideal woman is a lot quieter than the current version

Now thats funny lmao!

[Whatanejit]

I think that most men would agree that the ideal woman is a lot quieter than the current version

[Beefcupcake]

I think that most men would agree that the ideal woman is a lot quieter than the current version

You just live in the wrong country

[G8GXP]

Fixed!

Thanks!

[Rdez]

I saw a documentary where researchers tried to answer that 'what is the ideal woman's figure', and amazingly, it was about the same all over the world.

It has to do with the proportional relationship between bust, waist, hips, thighs measurements. There's an idea range and men from all over, including 'primitive' tribal men, all picked the same type of female shape.

The other big driver is body/facial symmetry.

Both of these things, proportions/symmetry, are natural signs of good genetic make up and thus are more attractive to males at a basic fundamental genetic level.

[thomasale]

I saw a documentary where researchers tried to answer that 'what is the ideal woman's figure', and amazingly, it was about the same all over the world.

It has to do with the proportional relationship between bust, waist, hips, thighs measurements. There's an idea range and men from all over, including 'primitive' tribal men, all picked the same type of female shape.

The other big driver is body/facial symmetry.

Both of these things, proportions/symmetry, are natural signs of good genetic make up and thus are more attractive to males at a basic fundamental genetic level.

Ohhhhhh and I thought they were just hot!

[kimm4]

A playboy playmate is between the ages of what 19 to 25ish? Tall, thin, big boobs, fake boobs, long hair usually blond or a fake blond...brunettes or red heads on occasion.

That pretty much knocks out the rest of us...

[MarkY]

A playmate only represents a woman that ideally finds Hugh Heffner attractive.

I believe you mean a playmate is a woman that Hugh Hefner finds attractive.

[thomasale]

A playboy playmate is between the ages of what 19 to 25ish? Tall, thin, big boobs, fake boobs, long hair usually blond or a fake blond...brunettes or red heads on occasion.

That pretty much knocks out the rest of us...

Kimm u r just as beautiful but in a different way...different is VERY good!

[m1k3g0rd]

I believe you mean a playmate is a woman that Hugh Hefner finds attractive.

Wrong.. at his age, Hugh Hefner finds every woman attractive

[blu2xtreme]

Wrong.. at his age, Hugh Hefner finds every woman attractive

Actually at his age I think he finds no woman attractive without use of some prescription drugs, lol.

I also think everyones idea of an ideal women or man varies so much - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many find all bodybuilders - male and female unattractive - I personally think they are all a work of art.

[bryantone]

I prefer women with generous portions. "You aint a lady til your 180". I like "man sized portions... not a kiddie meal". If you are under 45 years old "do not apply"!! All joking aside, I think being well proportioned for women and men is best. So a women's weight can vary greatly and still be attractive. I have seen a 180lb (uneducated guess) woman in the gym well built and VERY attractive, and a 100 lb morsel looking good too.

[sweetcheeks4me]

Hmm, well I'm too "mature" *laughing*to be concerned (any longer) if I meet an ideal. My concern is about being my fittest and yes most attractive(I'm working on it!).

I think that what is attractive in a woman (or man, for that matter) is so individual and that people are more open about finding their own ideal and not worried if their "ideal" conforms to some media created idea of "perfection"... That is not to say that society is necessarily any more accepting or tolerant of physical deviances from the accepted norm.

[runswithscissor]

I have to agree with comment about them being more 'vocal' now, but the problem is I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person, so I pretty much just let them blab. A great example of this...I was talking with a woman a few weeks back and she said (and I kid you not...), "I was bummed when I heard Ed Mcmahon died...I used to love to watch him on WWE"...

I am pretty sure that I am in agreement with the whole geometrically proportioned facial structure thing. For me it is more about brains, beautiful eyes and a nice overall personality, but even with all that, I am sorry, if you are built like Oprah, the most we can ever be is just friends.

On the other end of the scale, if the woman weighs 105 pounds and 95 pounds of it are fake silicone...not a chance. You can use plastic surgery to make a woman beautiful but a dark ugly personality cannot be surgically altered.

Not to make the topic go off thread but some of the women that I have found attractive for a long time? Helen Hunt, Leelee Sobieski, Giada De Larauentiss, Diana Krall (on her look of love CD cover).

Heck, I could even go old school...Yvonne DeCarlo in some of her early day photos, NOT dressed up as lilly munster!

[Like It Or Not]

Sounds like you are comparing apples to oranges.

Playmate is ideal to most 20 and 30 somethings. (yes, all men find them attractive, but they have a demographic they are trying to hit)



BMI increased for the average woman has a lot more diffeent body shapes into it than the Playmate does. Women are definitely getting heavier b/c now they are trying to rasie kids, work, cook, etc. No time to eat healthy or workout.


I don't think Playboy would sell as many magazines if the weight of their ladies went up. Big difference b/t fantasy and reality.

[runswithscissor]

Sounds like you are comparing apples to oranges.

Playmate is ideal to most 20 and 30 somethings. (yes, all men find them attractive, but they have a demographic they are trying to hit)



BMI increased for the average woman has a lot more diffeent body shapes into it than the Playmate does. Women are definitely getting heavier b/c now they are trying to rasie kids, work, cook, etc. No time to eat healthy or workout.


I don't think Playboy would sell as many magazines if the weight of their ladies went up. Big difference b/t fantasy and reality.

Yup...you hit the nail on the head with no time to eat healthy. If we can't even take the time to cut up a head of Romaine (why anyone would eat Iceburg is beyond me) and buy pre-cut lettuce, it kind of speaks volumes about what the "average" person is willing to do. Not only trying to watch what they put in their body, but also about going to the gym and actually do any amount of real work.

Be it a man or a woman, when the kids are screaming for McNuggets and you give in and pull up to that drive thru and order for them and yourself, well, garbage in, garbage out...

[Kate1]

I think that most men would agree that the ideal woman is a lot quieter than the current version

I LOLed!

[hipshimmy]

I LOLed!

Me too.

[hipshimmy]

I prefer women with generous portions. "You aint a lady til your 180". I like "man sized portions... not a kiddie meal". If you are under 45 years old "do not apply"!! All joking aside, I think being well proportioned for women and men is best. So a women's weight can vary greatly and still be attractive. I have seen a 180lb (uneducated guess) woman in the gym well built and VERY attractive, and a 100 lb morsel looking good too.

I think hourglasses are ideal as opposed to the barbie or rectangle shaped looks. I think that playboy playmate Cynthia Myers looked ideal. I don't read Playboy I just like the movie Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

[KyleAaron]

I don't think Playboy would sell as many magazines if the weight of their ladies went up. Big difference b/t fantasy and reality.

The thing is that Playboy's popularity is way down on what it used to be. It was about 7 million copies in 1972, and about 3 million now.

Consider Maxim, FHM, Hustler, Sports Illustrated, Score, and so on - all magazines largely focused on presenting men with what are to them desireable women, and all with heavier women than Playboy, and together vastly exceeding Playboy's circulation.

What old Hef likes, and what most men like, these are two different things. He's just another out of touch old guy.

[crupiea]

I dont find whats in Playboy to be the typical role model that men are looking for.

Of course men have always sought out youthful looks and attractiveness but that is subjective.

What has changed about women is their attitudes. Lots of women give off an attitude that we should kiss their butt for everything they do.

Perosnality or lack thereof will make someone vastly more or less attractive.

[bikes4u]

OP--for me it hasn't: