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  1. #1
    Gain Muscle TenzoX's Avatar
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    Creatine and Lemon Lime Gatorade

    I heard if you put creatine in an acidic liquid like orange juice then it becomes useless. I was planning to put my mono into Lemon Lime Gatorade powder(yes they make gatorade powders). But I was concerned cuz Lemons Lime is also acidic. So would it be bad to put it in this?
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  2. #2
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    i dont think artificial flavors count bro.....lemoin lime gaitorade isnt the same as lemon juice and lime juice
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  3. #3
    Gain Muscle TenzoX's Avatar
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    But in the ingrediants it says Natural Lemon and Lime flavor and it also has citric acid.
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  4. #4
    protein connoisseur Joe D's Avatar
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    whats stronger? citric acid or stomache acids?
    call me the rap assasinator, rhymes rugged and built like schwarzenegger.
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  5. #5
    THANK U 4 BEIN A FRIEND WordzWorf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joe81 View Post
    whats stronger? citric acid or stomache acids?
    Exactly,not to mention it would probably have to sit for a long while before it started to degrade and it sitting in water would probably have more effect on it than the small amount of citric acid in Gatorade.
    "One morning I woke up and found my favorite pigeon, Julius, had died I was devastated and was gonna use his crate as my stickball bat to honor him. I left the crate on my stoop and went in to get something and I returned to see the sanitation man put the crate into the crusher. I rushed him and caught him flush on the temple with a titanic right hand he was out cold, convulsing on the floor like a infantile retard." -Mike Tyson
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  6. #6
    Gain Muscle TenzoX's Avatar
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    hmmm sounds reasonable.
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    Originally Posted by TenzoX View Post
    I heard if you put creatine in an acidic liquid like orange juice then it becomes useless. I was planning to put my mono into Lemon Lime Gatorade powder(yes they make gatorade powders). But I was concerned cuz Lemons Lime is also acidic. So would it be bad to put it in this?
    This is a myth that just won't die. Even when large boluses of creatine are consumed, it is excreted in the urine as creatine.

    Stability of Creatine in aqueous solution:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...6&d=1099360168
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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  8. #8
    Registered User BigRick87's Avatar
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    Most Creatine is Converted into creatinine upon the time the creatine encounters a fluid. This is why AAEFX came out with Kre-Alkalyn, because Kre-Alkalyn is stable and does not convert into creatinine. It has be shown that creatine begins to converts to creatinine immediatly when mixed in a sports drink and full conversion to creatinine in in 43 seconds, as the same for many fruit juices. This is because of the PH level being low. Your best bet if using mono would be to mix it with water or a protein shake as it will take the longest to convert to creatinine and thus you will get more creatine in your muscle. Or use Kre-alkalyn that does not convert.
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  9. #9
    Brooklyn's Finest YoungEx20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigRick87 View Post
    Most Creatine is Converted into creatinine upon the time the creatine encounters a fluid. This is why AAEFX came out with Kre-Alkalyn, because Kre-Alkalyn is stable and does not convert into creatinine. It has be shown that creatine begins to converts to creatinine immediatly when mixed in a sports drink and full conversion to creatinine in in 43 seconds, as the same for many fruit juices. This is because of the PH level being low. Your best bet if using mono would be to mix it with water or a protein shake as it will take the longest to convert to creatinine and thus you will get more creatine in your muscle. Or use Kre-alkalyn that does not convert.
    Scientific studies (like the one posted above) have shown that your claims are incorrect. Please stop trolling.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by YoungEx20 View Post
    Scientific studies (like the one posted above) have shown that your claims are incorrect. Please stop trolling.


    x2...creatine + soda ash = suckers thinking they are getting "ph" balanced creatine
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  11. #11
    String Theory nano.ix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigRick87 View Post
    Most Creatine is Converted into creatinine upon the time the creatine encounters a fluid. This is why AAEFX came out with Kre-Alkalyn, because Kre-Alkalyn is stable and does not convert into creatinine. It has be shown that creatine begins to converts to creatinine immediatly when mixed in a sports drink and full conversion to creatinine in in 43 seconds, as the same for many fruit juices. This is because of the PH level being low. Your best bet if using mono would be to mix it with water or a protein shake as it will take the longest to convert to creatinine and thus you will get more creatine in your muscle. Or use Kre-alkalyn that does not convert.
    WOW. you rep for AAEFX ... thats just bad for business
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  12. #12
    Registered User BigRick87's Avatar
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    I am not saying that creatine mono does not work, because yes some of the creatine mono will get carried into your system. I am saying that it can convert to creatinine in x amount of time depending on what it is mixed with. I simply stated some differences based on PH levels. If you feel that PH levels make no difference when it comes to absorption, and you feel that there is not a creatine to creatinine conversion then continue with your normal supplementation.
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    String Theory nano.ix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigRick87 View Post
    Most Creatine is Converted into creatinine upon the time the creatine encounters a fluid. This is why AAEFX came out with Kre-Alkalyn, because Kre-Alkalyn is stable and does not convert into creatinine. It has be shown that creatine begins to converts to creatinine immediatly when mixed in a sports drink and full conversion to creatinine in in 43 seconds, as the same for many fruit juices. This is because of the PH level being low. Your best bet if using mono would be to mix it with water or a protein shake as it will take the longest to convert to creatinine and thus you will get more creatine in your muscle. Or use Kre-alkalyn that does not convert.
    Originally Posted by BigRick87 View Post
    I am not saying that creatine mono does not work, because yes some of the creatine mono will get carried into your system. I am saying that it can convert to creatinine in x amount of time depending on what it is mixed with. I simply stated some differences based on PH levels. If you feel that PH levels make no difference when it comes to absorption, and you feel that there is not a creatine to creatinine conversion then continue with your normal supplementation.
    1) You clearly know nothing
    2) Your a terrible rep

    3) Your mind breaking formula
    Creatine Monohydrate 1000 mg
    Maltodextrin 200 mg
    Magnesium Stearate 5 mg
    Magnesium Glycerol Phosphate 25 mg
    Soda Ash 5-1000 mg
    Natural and/or Artificial Flavors 20 mg
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=27

    4) Stability in aqueous solutions
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...6&d=1099360168

    5) KA is more stable? (not something to base anything off of but still)

    Dr. Mark J. Tallon recently tested the stability of Kre-Alkalyn vs. untreated creatine monohydrate under acidic conditions, and presented his results at the 4th Annual International Society of Sports Nutrition conference. The title says it all: Kre-alkalyn supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

    "In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating thatCM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach."

    http://www.cr-technologies.net/kre-alkalyn.html

    Sources: http://www.brinkzone.com/blog/bodybu...ne-grave-yard/
    http://bodybuilding.ultimatefatburne...e-Alkalyn.html

    ... in no way am i saying KA won't 'work' as it is CrM, but why lie about other products to try and sell yours?
    Last edited by nano.ix; 07-16-2009 at 08:27 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by BigRick87 View Post
    I am not saying that creatine mono does not work, because yes some of the creatine mono will get carried into your system. I am saying that it can convert to creatinine in x amount of time depending on what it is mixed with. I simply stated some differences based on PH levels. If you feel that PH levels make no difference when it comes to absorption, and you feel that there is not a creatine to creatinine conversion then continue with your normal supplementation.
    good thing your red, i hope they dont pay you to do this
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  16. #16
    CEO www.b-built.net sixthsense's Avatar
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    I am just stopping in here to dispel a myth that just will not die regarding Kre Alkalyn (regardless of whether you think it works or not).

    KA CONTAINS ZERO SODA ASH!!!

    KA CONTAINS NO BAKING SODA!!!

    Soda ash/baking soda can only bring stomach PH to about 9, while KA brings it to 12-14, which is where it needs to be. AND, you would need a major dose of baking soda to get this effect. It certainly cannot fit into a small capsule!

    Again, just dispelling THAT myth. I understand you think KA is no better than CM, but that is irrelevant to my post.

    Carry on...
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  17. #17
    Gain Muscle TenzoX's Avatar
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    So I would be fine taking my creatine like this?
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    Originally Posted by sixthsense View Post
    I am just stopping in here to dispel a myth that just will not die regarding Kre Alkalyn (regardless of whether you think it works or not).

    KA CONTAINS ZERO SODA ASH!!!

    KA CONTAINS NO BAKING SODA!!!

    Soda ash/baking soda can only bring stomach PH to about 9, while KA brings it to 12-14, which is where it needs to be. AND, you would need a major dose of baking soda to get this effect. It certainly cannot fit into a small capsule!

    Again, just dispelling THAT myth. I understand you think KA is no better than CM, but that is irrelevant to my post.

    Carry on...
    Then riddle me this batman. When I put one of my ChemE friends to use and had him analyze this, how come he came back and confirmed SODA ASH???

    So are you telling me there are different patented formulas of KAs on the market???? And can you prove any of your statements???

    You got owned before, let's not have it happen again.
    Last edited by rhizome; 07-16-2009 at 12:02 PM.
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    I mixed Mono / Glutimine this morning with about 5 ozs of gatorade... then chugged water after...

    cool?
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    Originally Posted by sixthsense View Post
    I am just stopping in here to dispel a myth that just will not die regarding Kre Alkalyn (regardless of whether you think it works or not).

    KA CONTAINS ZERO SODA ASH!!!

    KA CONTAINS NO BAKING SODA!!!

    Soda ash/baking soda can only bring stomach PH to about 9, while KA brings it to 12-14, which is where it needs to be. AND, you would need a major dose of baking soda to get this effect. It certainly cannot fit into a small capsule!

    Again, just dispelling THAT myth. I understand you think KA is no better than CM, but that is irrelevant to my post.

    Carry on...
    This will just be repeating how you were owned on the previous thread.

    You know how a patent works right? You patent a 'formula' and i am able to research that patent if i know the #. KA's patent number is # 6399661 as posted on your site, products.

    Now i go to a patent website, search that number and voila
    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...%22soda+ash%22

    I claim:

    1. A process for producing a creatine mixture for ingestion comprising the steps of:

    mixing an alkaline powder with a powdered creatine to adjust the pH of the mixture to a range between 7-14;

    adding a powdered additive to the mixture for improving sweetness and taste; and

    adding a further alkaline powder to the mixture to adjust the pH of the mixture to a range between 7-14.

    2. The method according to claim 1 wherein the alkaline powder is comprised of soda ash.

    3. The method according to claim 1 wherein the alkaline powder is comprised of magnesium glycerol phosphate.

    4. The method according to claim 1 wherein the alkaline powder is selected from a hydroxide, carbonate, bicarbonate, chloride, tree latex or a phosphate.

    5. The method according to claim 1 wherein the creatine powder is comprised of creatine monohydrate.

    6. The method according to claim 1 wherein the creatine powder is comprised of creatine phosphate.

    7. The method according to claim 1 wherein the creatine powder is comprised of creatine pyruvate.

    8. The method according to claim 1 wherein the creatine powder is comprised of creatine citrate.

    9. The method according to claim 1 further including the step of mixing the mixed creatine powder with water prior to ingestion.

    10. The method of claim 1 further including the steps of adding a flow agent and the step of encapsulating the mixture in a capsule.

    11. The method according to claim 10 wherein the flow agent is comprised of magnesium stearate.

    12. The method according to claim 1 further including the steps of adding a hardener material, a binder material, and a flow agent, and the further step of compressing the mixture into tablets.

    13. The method according to claim 12 wherein the hardener material is comprised of sorbitol.

    14. The method according to claim 12 wherein the binder material is comprised of microcrystalline cellulose.

    15. The method according to claim 12 wherein the flow agent is comprised of magnesium stearate.

    16. The method according to claim 1 further including the step of adding water to the mixture together with a base material and a stabilizer material for forming a creatine solution.

    17. The method according to claim 16 wherein the base material is comprised of glycerine.

    18. The method according to claim 16 wherein the stabilizer material is comprised of potassium sorbate.

    19. The method according to claim 1 further including the step of adding a gel base material to the mixture for forming a soft gel.

    20. The method according to claim 1 wherein the gel base material is comprised of soy bean oil.

    21. A creatine mixture for ingestion which is produced by a process comprising the steps of:

    mixing an alkaline powder with a powdered creatine to adjust the pH of the mixture to a range between 7-14;

    adding a powdered additive to the mixture for improving sweetness and taste; and

    adding a further alkaline powder to the mixture to adjust the pH of the mixture to a range between 7-14.
    you dont even know the PH levels(12-14 eh?) of your own product...

    ...does it hurt?
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  21. #21
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    Why so much anger? Have you ever tried KA? I am no chemist but I have tried many creatine products and the simple truth is KA works BETTER than any creatine product I've ever used while consuming FAR less than I have in the past. Keep being immature and disrespectful if you'd like, I'll keep getting bigger!
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    P/RR/S Warrior Slackadjuster's Avatar
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    Getting a little heated in here! lol
    I read the patent for KA a while ago and was floored when I saw soda ash (sodium carbonate). What I did then was figure out why that is listed in the patent. In order for a company to protect itself, it need to make the patent as encompassing as possible.

    I will let wiki do the explaining for me..(because they state it better than I could)

    "A patent is a right to preclude others from making, using, selling or offering for sale the subject matter defined by the claims. In order to exclude someone from using a patented invention in a court, the patent owner, or patentee, needs to demonstrate that what the other person is using falls within the scope of a claim of the patent. Therefore, it is more valuable to obtain claims that include the minimal set of limitations that differentiate an invention over what came before, i.e. the so-called prior art. On the other hand, the fewer the limitations in a claim, the more likely it is that the claim will cover or "read on" what came before and be rejected during examination or found to be invalid at a later time for lack of novelty."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_(patent) ref
    Lots of good reading if you are a tech type person.

    Now I'm not a lawyer or a scientist, but I do know about protecting what is mine. I believe that is why you see soda ash listed in the patent. just my .02
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    Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    This is a myth that just won't die. Even when large boluses of creatine are consumed, it is excreted in the urine as creatine.

    Stability of Creatine in aqueous solution:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...6&d=1099360168
    Thanks for the info.

    ...appreciated.
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  24. #24
    CEO www.b-built.net sixthsense's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nano.ix View Post
    This will just be repeating how you were owned on the previous thread.

    You know how a patent works right? You patent a 'formula' and i am able to research that patent if i know the #. KA's patent number is # 6399661 as posted on your site, products.

    Now i go to a patent website, search that number and voila
    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...%22soda+ash%22



    you dont even know the PH levels(12-14 eh?) of your own product...

    ...does it hurt?
    This is where your ignorance hurts you my good friend. What is in that patent is NOT what KA is actually made of. Apparently what YOU do not know is that Jeff did NOT have to reveal the EXACT formula that is in KA. He was not required to! Sorry.

    Again...and if you knew ANYTHING about chemistry anyway...you CANNOT achieve a PH of 12-14 using baking soda no matter how much you use. AND even if you wanted to use soda ash you would need a couple of teaspoons minimum to lower PH to 9 (which is all you can get with it)...while in a tiny capsule of KA we achieve a PH of 12-14.

    You have only "owned" your own ignorance.
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  25. #25
    CEO www.b-built.net sixthsense's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    Then riddle me this batman. When I put one of my ChemE friends to use and had him analyze this, how come he came back and confirmed SODA ASH???

    So are you telling me there are different patented formulas of KAs on the market???? And can you prove any of your statements???

    You got owned before, let's not have it happen again.
    The above post is for you too. Analyze a capsule of KA produced by AAP (who produces the true KA) and you will NOT find soda ash.

    The day one of you guys owns me is the day hell freezes over my friend.
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    Originally Posted by sixthsense View Post
    The above post is for you too. Analyze a capsule of KA produced by AAP (who produces the true KA) and you will NOT find soda ash.

    The day one of you guys owns me is the day hell freezes over my friend.
    Whatever brosef. I don't give a rat's ass who the **** you are. You are full of sh!!t. KA contains soda ash. It's just that simple. All you dillhole EFX shills run around spreading misinformation and propaganda misleading the consumer.

    Welcome to hell in a freezer foolz.
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    CEO www.b-built.net sixthsense's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    Whatever brosef. I don't give a rat's ass who the **** you are. You are full of sh!!t. KA contains soda ash. It's just that simple. All you dillhole EFX shills run around spreading misinformation and propaganda misleading the consumer.

    Welcome to hell in a freezer foolz.
    No problem my friend. Your ignorance will only serve you to keep those 13" guns pumped to the max while you do your hardest workouts on the keyboard instead of the gym.

    Oh, and by the way...a "shill" is one that pretends to have no association with the brand they are supporting. Just further evidence that you unfortunately speak from the part of your body you sit on, rather than the one above your neck.

    But, this IS America, and you have the "right to be ignorant."

    Good luck.
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    *eats popcorn*

    Enjoys above posts.
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    Originally Posted by sixthsense View Post
    No problem my friend. Your ignorance will only serve you to keep those 13" guns pumped to the max while you do your hardest workouts on the keyboard instead of the gym.

    Oh, and by the way...a "shill" is one that pretends to have no association with the brand they are supporting. Just further evidence that you unfortunately speak from the part of your body you sit on, rather than the one above your neck.

    But, this IS America, and you have the "right to be ignorant."

    Good luck.
    You can clearly see I spend all my time in front of the keyboard since I don't get your lame-o forumite lingo.

    You've gotten owned once again. You got owned when you pimped for VPX. Now this. Pathetic.

    Silly wabbitz.

    Now go back to arguing with Dave.
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  30. #30
    CEO www.b-built.net sixthsense's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    You can clearly see I spend all my time in front of the keyboard since I don't get your lame-o forumite lingo.

    You've gotten owned once again. You got owned when you pimped for VPX. Now this. Pathetic.

    Silly wabbitz.

    Now go back to arguing with Dave.
    Nobody on this board has ever "owned" me man...and I laugh heartily at anyone who may think they have, LOL. Hate is the result of jealousy, which is an ugly, useless emotion. Yes, I as a silly wabbit will go on making DVD's, writing books, magazine columns, competing as a pro, representing top supplement companies, growing larger and larger and even having conversations with people like you...which is actually kind of fun. It's kind of like when I talk with my 4-year-old nephew. He makes no sense...has no clue what he is talking about...is constantly tripping over himself...but is a hella-lotta-laughs! : )

    Thank you for the entertainment today my man. But I have taken up enough of your valuable time. Go back to your coloring books! And try to stay within the lines this time.

    Peace.
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