Leading Cause of Bankruptcy in the US: Medical Bills...

[Spetsnazos]

In b4 these people should be more responsible and have health insurance.

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds
Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy.
Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take time off from work -- losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most.
Families in bankruptcy suffered many privations -- 30 percent had a utility cut off and 61 percent went without needed medical care.

The research, carried out jointly by researchers at Harvard Law School and Harvard Medical School, is the first in-depth study of medical causes of bankruptcy. With the cooperation of bankruptcy judges in five Federal districts (in California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Texas) they administered questionnaires to bankruptcy filers and reviewed their court records.

Dr. David Himmelstein, the lead author of the study and an Associate Professor of Medicine at Harvard commented: "Unless you're Bill Gates you're just one serious illness away from bankruptcy. Most of the medically bankrupt were average Americans who happened to get sick."

Today's health insurance policies -- with high deductibles, co-pays, and many exclusions -- offer little protection during a serious illness. Uncovered medical bills averaged $13,460 for those with private insurance at the start of their illness. People with cancer had average medical debts of $35,878.

"The paradox is that the costliest health system in the world performs so poorly. We waste one-third of every health care dollar on insurance bureaucracy and profits while two million people go bankrupt annually and we leave 45 million uninsured" said Dr. Quentin Young, national coordinator of Physicians for a National Health Program.

"With national health insurance ('Medicare for All'), we could provide comprehensive, lifelong coverage to all Americans for the same amount we are spending now and end the cruelty of ruining families financially when they get sick."

cant wait until bull**** like this stops happening

[Spetsnazos]

Im glad there is no contention in congress now and the Democrats can finally get a universal health care bill across. One day the republifailures will realize that middle class proletariat is the important factor in this country not the filthy rich bourgeoise. Too bad the republican party brainwashes it supporters with the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh

[One More Time]

Might want to change the title then..


Leading cause of Bankruptcy in the US: taxes.


Somebody gotta pay for the "free" stuff.

[Spetsnazos]

Might want to change the title then..


Leading cause of Bankruptcy in the US: taxes.

Wut, you cant tax on what you dont have.

[amtharin]

There is no reason someone should file bankruptcy because of medical debet. There are law in place that say that can report you to creditors. You can pay a dollar a month, as long as you pay something, and they cant do anything to you.

[Spetsnazos]

There is no reason someone should file bankruptcy because of medical debet. There are law in place that say that can report you to creditors. You can pay a dollar a month, as long as you pay something, and they cant do anything to you.

great story brah, would read again. This time can you start with, "Once upon a time..."

Read the article, its a Harvard study not Wassila Community College

[One More Time]

There is no reason someone should file bankruptcy because of medical debet. There are law in place that say that can report you to creditors. You can pay a dollar a month, as long as you pay something, and they cant do anything to you.

+ cost shifting. That happens when insured people are charged more to help offset the losses because of the uninsured.

[tebriel]

There is no reason someone should file bankruptcy because of medical debet. There are law in place that say that can report you to creditors. You can pay a dollar a month, as long as you pay something, and they cant do anything to you.

you're not getting it, medical bills put them under and then they can't afford to pay for their house and other bills. it's generally the lack of ability to pay for a house that makes you declare bankruptcy. this study is just saying that it's the medical bills that are the catalyst.

[ElMariachi]

LOL, strong repost of a flawed study that has been debunked already.


http://www.businessinsider.com/eliza...olished-2009-6

http://business.theatlantic.com/2009...ptcy_study.php

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/...ruptcy_stu.php

Answer: they didn't. What Warren et. al. neglect to mention is that bankruptcies fell between 2001 and 2007. In fact, they were cut in half. Going by the numbers Warren et. al. provide, medical bankruptcies actually fell by almost 220,000 between 2001 and 2007, a fact that they not only fail to mention, but deliberately obscure.

The woman behind this study is a far-left type who was pushing the same sort of housing for those who can't afford to pay policies that helped crash this economy. There is a lot of deliberate manipulation in this study and things that were conveniently excluded. This isn't science, this is propaganda.

/thread

[frankenstein]

So much for me not posting for awhile. I'd be interested to see what % of the bankruptcies are for the elderly living in assisted living facilities or nursing homes. My bet is the majority of those medical bankruptcies are such. With or without 'Medicare for all' that wouldn't change those people's bankruptcies at all.

As someone with first-hand experience, you'd be amazed how many people go to an assisted living facility (while on Medicare and a private co-insurance), then end up at a nursing home for years. It's a slow decline into death over the course of 5-15 years. In the process they use up hundreds of thousands of dollars of their own money on top of hundreds of thousand of their insurance's money and Medicare's money. You'd be amazed at how many people end up as basically wards of the state. Some stay at a nursing home not because they require that level of health care but because they've used up millions of dollars and are living off of Medicare and Medicaid to house them and feed them. None of those would change with a 'Medicare for all' style of program.

Just food for thought.

[Spetsnazos]

you're not getting it, medical bills put them under and then they can't afford to pay for their house and other bills. it's generally the lack of ability to pay for a house that makes you declare bankruptcy. this study is just saying that it's the medical bills that are the catalyst.

Its sad that we have to explain studies to these people. I wish they would just stop regurgitating all the BS they hear on Hannity/Rush, kind of sad actually. If more people would use their brains and think for themselves, we wouldnt be in the mess we are in today.

[frankenstein]

Its sad that we have to explain studies to these people. I wish they would just stop regurgitating all the BS they hear on Hannity/Rush, kind of sad actually. If more people would use their brains and think for themselves, we wouldnt be in the mess we are in today.

any thoughts on my post?

[Spetsnazos]

So much for me not posting for awhile. I'd be interested to see what % of the bankruptcies are for the elderly living in assisted living facilities or nursing homes. My bet is the majority of those medical bankruptcies are such. With or without 'Medicare for all' that wouldn't change those people's bankruptcies at all.

As someone with first-hand experience, you'd be amazed how many people go to an assisted living facility (while on Medicare and a private co-insurance), then end up at a nursing home for years. It's a slow decline into death over the course of 5-15 years. In the process they use up hundreds of thousands of dollars of their own money on top of hundreds of thousand of their insurance's money and Medicare's money. You'd be amazed at how many people end up as basically wards of the state. Some stay at a nursing home not because they require that level of health care but because they've used up millions of dollars and are living off of Medicare and Medicaid to house them and feed them. None of those would change with a 'Medicare for all' style of program.

My sister in laws cousin works for the courts during bankruptcy litigation. She says on a daily basis she sees people who "had their head up high of always paying their bills on time" and a few medical issues here and there, losing insurance, insurance not covering, they end up in bankruptcy. She says a majority of these people are middle age and had jobs until they became so ill that they couldnt go to work and subsequently lost their insurance/coverage and could not apply for new coverage due to their existing condition. The system is utter failure at best.

[jimbob007]

America really needs a national health service- we brits find it incredible that people actually have to pay money just for getting ill.

[Spetsnazos]

any thoughts on my post?

see below,

Also coming from a universal healthcare system and numerous family members telling me about it, we never had long waits like the ones that exist in the US.

My dad had a mild stroke, had insurance, and we waited 4 hours in the emergency room before any real doctor would look at him and give him any kind of medication/treatment. My mom had to rile everyone up and down the halls until something got done. She worked as a nurse in the Soviet Union and said that it was rare for anyone to come into emergency and not be treated within ~10 minutes.

[grup910]

Good article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ce..._b_228324.html

However people are, in fact, dropping dead here due to a lack of affordable, reliable healthcare. They're being abandoned on the street. They're being denied coverage and care. They're going bankrupt and losing everything just because they had the bad luck of losing their job and then getting sick. And the Republicans are telling us that this is the best system ever, even though our infant mortality rate ranks 29th, our life expectancy ranks 42nd (so much for "pro life") and our healthcare spending is the highest among industrialized nations.

[amtharin]

you're not getting it, medical bills put them under and then they can't afford to pay for their house and other bills. it's generally the lack of ability to pay for a house that makes you declare bankruptcy. this study is just saying that it's the medical bills that are the catalyst.

What part about my post did you not get?? There are laws in place that protect people from having to file bankruptcy due to medical bills. You can literally pay $1 per month, and they can not report you to creditors. If these people are filing bankruptcy anyways then that is their fault.

[Enso]

My parents health insurance company increased their rates and cut back on their benefits. Go figure. In regards to health insurance, I don't agree with the companies operating in a for profit environment. For profit is too cut throat. Instead these companies should have the backing of the federal government with oversight imho in a not for profit environment. Granted that didn't work so well in the mortgage sector, but I think it would fair better in the health insurance sector. Also, guaranteeing payment to hospitals will help lower bills since defaults are already factored into services rendered to those who can pay.

[amtharin]

great story brah, would read again. This time can you start with, "Once upon a time..."

Read the article, its a Harvard study not Wassila Community College

Not a story, its reality.

[Spetsnazos]

America really needs a national health service- we brits find it incredible that people actually have to pay money just for getting ill.

we have alot of rich corporations and multi billion dollar companies working hard at brainwashing the republicans and a part of the country into thinking that its a bad idea...I can see why, they lose fat profits. Sadly they have a few motivational scumbags like Hannity/Rush brainwashing the public some more.

[ZenBowman]

I strongly support public healthcare, provided that competition is maintained. That is, money is attached to people, not hospitals, and people can choose where they wish to be treated.

[Enso]

I strongly support public healthcare, provided that competition is maintained. That is, money is attached to people, not hospitals, and people can choose where they wish to be treated.

Make U.S. Citizen = Group Member. Then, if people wish to pay for additional coverage allow them.

[Spetsnazos]

My parents health insurance company increased their rates and cut back on their benefits. .

they kindly figure in your age and prior health conditions in order to make insurance so expensive that it would be impossible for you to afford it. What kind of non-retarded company is out there to lose money on people why they dont have to? Therein lies the problem

[ZenBowman]

Make U.S. Citizen = Group Member. Then, if people wish to pay for additional coverage allow them.

Sure, no problem with that. All I'm asking for is that we don't leave sick people untreated, at least they should receive some treatment.

I'm surprised at how right wingers seem to forget the mandate to "Heal the sick, feed the hungry".

[One More Time]

we have alot of rich corporations and multi billion dollar companies working hard at brainwashing the republicans and a part of the country into thinking that its a bad idea...I can see why, they lose fat profits. Sadly they have a few motivational scumbags like Hannity/Rush brainwashing the public some more.

I don't need anyone to tell me it is a bad idea. I am not a veterinarian, but I know a horse's ass when I see one.

[jimbob007]

It has worked very well here for many decades now- I am actually for them charging the idiots who clog up the system at weekends- just because they have abused alcohol &/or drugs & their physical ailments are a result of that.

But for the majority of people it is a great service, those who can afford to go private for operations rather than wait for the NHS still do so.

we have alot of rich corporations and multi billion dollar companies working hard at brainwashing the republicans and a part of the country into thinking that its a bad idea...I can see why, they lose fat profits. Sadly they have a few motivational scumbags like Hannity/Rush brainwashing the public some more.

[Enso]

they kindly figure in your age and prior health conditions in order to make insurance so expensive that it would be impossible for you to afford it. What kind of non-retarded company is out there to lose money on people why they dont have to? Therein lies the problem

Which is why for profit is not the ideal environment imho for health insurance companies. You end up profiting off of sickness. It didn't start out that way. It is what it has become in the hand of capitalist profit maximizers. Granted the general public plays a factor in their pathetic eating and lifestyle habits though. They pretty much made it easy for them to preyed upon.

[Spetsnazos]

Which is why for profit is not the ideal environment imho for health insurance companies. You end up profiting off of sickness. It didn't start out that way. It is what it has become in the hand of capitalist profit maximizers. Granted the general public plays a factor in their pathetic eating and lifestyle habits though. They pretty much made it easy for them to preyed upon.

I agree, healthcare is not the place where profits should be made.

[grup910]

we have alot of rich corporations and multi billion dollar companies working hard at brainwashing the republicans and a part of the country into thinking that its a bad idea...I can see why, they lose fat profits. Sadly they have a few motivational scumbags like Hannity/Rush brainwashing the public some more.

x1000

That's basically their entire M.O. They brainwash a segment of the population into thinking what's good for THEM (the corporate interests) will also be good for their "followers." It almost never is. It's a scam, and unfortunately people are still falling for it (although thankfully fewer are lately, for the time being, at least).

[Enso]

Sure, no problem with that. All I'm asking for is that we don't leave sick people untreated, at least they should receive some treatment.

I'm surprised at how right wingers seem to forget the mandate to "Heal the sick, feed the hungry".

You can't worship both God and money. Therefore serve God with money. However, in a secular government like ours that gets to be a bit of a sticky proposition. And like I mentioned in my previous post, personal responsibility does/should play some role. Figuring out who, and just what coverage they are secured, would require allot of discussion since to a large degree diet/lifestlye influence health. However, like you mention....the human body is frail and prone to sickness and some things just happen...and at the most inopportune times as well...so getting treatment for illness is not something people should have to worry about imho. It is a basic right in a humane society.