"Liberal p*ssies" GTFIH!

[ryan250]

Just to clear something up. We are fighting the same people in Iraq as we are in Afganistan and I believe terrorists should be killed regardless of thier location. My problem with Iraq is that the military's hands have been tied there so that dirty politicians can make more money. That's why I said no police action and no politicians involved in statigic decisions.

It's impossible to ever defeat and kill all "terrorists".

Websters: "a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for ..."

Jesus, we might as well start bombing everyone.

[Getting_Cut22]

Actually it is happending today. They are still operating with the same intent as 8 years ago. What would you fight them with and do you feel that the soldiers who are fighting them are not protecting the freedoms of Americans?

well they can leave, they aren't protecting anyones freedom.

[Fire8085]

OPs reps jumping around like a ping pong. Jeez.

[clayu86]

No, government employees don't pay taxes. That's just accounting magic. You're paid by taxes, so whatever you "pay" in taxes is actually just money you're not paid.


Like public school teachers. Let's say you make 70 thousand dollars....and pay 10 thousand dollars in taxes....since they're paid by taxes that would just mean that person is paid 60 thousand dollars.

facepalm n that makes you lazy pieces of shts contributions to this society better how? I get sick of seeing caskets roll into Dover. Take a walk in our shoes and learn the system then speak. Yes we do pay taxes dumbass. Fail...its rthe same money grouped into yours you are ignorant of economics and also of the pay system n structure of the military. Im sorry but the ignorance in this thread is makin me lose braincells. My typin is even fuking up no actually thats because im usng one hand. my girl is on the other.

[BobisMighty]

No, government employees don't pay taxes. That's just accounting magic. You're paid by taxes, so whatever you "pay" in taxes is actually just money you're not paid.


Like public school teachers. Let's say you make 70 thousand dollars....and pay 10 thousand dollars in taxes....since they're paid by taxes that would just mean that person is paid 60 thousand dollars.

I pray you aren't serious with this. My girlfriend is a state employee and she pays taxes. My father is a state employee and pays taxes. It's taken out of their paychecks as well as the fact that they must file for state and federal income tax.

[joshmichi]

It's impossible to ever defeat and kill all "terrorists".

Websters: "a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for ..."

Jesus, we might as well start bombing everyone.

War On Terrorism=war on tactic=wat?

[Ecnewyx]

What I'm saying is that someone who defends the actions of American soldiers based on "following orders" must also defend the actions of Nazi soldiers on the same basis. Either there is more to it than "they were just following orders," or you really think that being ordered to do something voids you of any responsibility for any action.

I would say following orders diminishes your culpability as compared to the person giving the orders. It doesn't void you of responsibility any more than it did the participants in the Milgram experiment, but one could argue that when you're given orders from a person in a position of authority "human nature" makes it difficult to refuse.

You should know the experiment. Do you disagree with his findings?

The "shock value" is common in logical reasoning when trying to see if someone is actually consistent in their reasoning. Either giving an action a job title justifies it or it doesn't. It is not only relevant to certain jobs. It's either a justification for actions or it is not.

Does giving an action a job title justify its participants? No. But I don't think the military is justified solely on the basis of it being a "job". I think it's justified because of the reasons I listed above. None of the "jobs" you're comparing it to are comparable in that regard.

[MrGuitar]

well they can leave, they aren't protecting anyones freedom.

Fighting the people who killed 3,000 Americans is not protecting our freedom? Do you suggest we let the people responisible for this attack go free?

[Rupert IV]

I don't agree with the war in Iraq based on what I know about it. I think you would have to be a really narrow minded fool to come to the conclusion that the war is justified based on the evidence available. The negatives are overwhelming - there doesn't appear to be even the beginnings of an arguement, never mind a winning arguement, in favour of the war, based on the evidence available.

However, you would only have to be slightly less of a narrow minded fool to think that the finer and more sensitive details and reasons behind international conflict are made available to the public.

I seriously doubt Bush/Obama etc even know everything themselves. It's important to remember these people are just the faces of the government, they're good speakers (hopefully) and are supposed to be popular with the masses, but their involvement in such matters as war is limited.

The soldiers themselves, of course, also know nothing. They just do their job and they hopefully do it well.

I trust that there are intelligent people behind the scenes who are acting in the best interests of the people (all around the world), and that whatever is happening now will, in the end, prove to be for the greater good.

My 0.000002c

[BobisMighty]

Just to clear something up. We are fighting the same people in Iraq as we are in Afganistan and I believe terrorists should be killed regardless of thier location. My problem with Iraq is that the military's hands have been tied there so that dirty politicians can make more money. That's why I said no police action and no politicians involved in statigic decisions.

agree 100%. We need to either be all in or all out. None of this half ass crap.


Anyone arguing either point of view, what literature are you using to back up your substantiations?

[stealth_swimmer]

You're a fat piece of **** with zero military experience. I assure you we don't just stand around all day waiting to be told what to do.

What's your point? I didn't say what your job was, I said that's your responsibility...meaning as far as what you're "supposed" to do. I know you folks have jobs. I've had multiple family members in the military, you douche.

[Fire8085]

facepalm n that makes you lazy pieces of shts contributions to this society better how? I get sick of seeing caskets roll into Dover. Take a walk in our shoes and learn the system then speak. Yes we do pay taxes dumbass. Fail...its rthe same money grouped into yours you are ignorant of economics and also of the pay system n structure of the military. Im sorry but the ignorance in this thread is makin me lose braincells. My typin is even fuking up no actually thats because im usng one hand. my girl is on the other.

Calm down there.

[clayu86]

That's scary. I would never join any organization that wouldn't allow me to make decisions without using my own head. To each his own.

even in the real world you face repercussions for not following orders. You people are complaining hypocritically because most of you follow as sheep everyday. Do you nogt have bosses yes. Is the nature of your jobs the same, hell no.

[joshmichi]

Fighting the people who killed 3,000 Americans is not protecting our freedom? Do you suggest we let the people responisible for this attack go free?

The people responsible for this attack directly are in prison or dead.

The people responsible by proxy, sheeeeiiit how far do you want to go back? Hopefully not too far-it gets pretty embarrassing.

[RetardedNinja]

liberals gtfih.. and then kill yourself for the benifit of society.

[Chris Lee]

Few countries have the ability to stage a ground invasion of the United States. There is no threat.

Do not kid yourself into thinking the military is interested in, or is, protecting any of our constitutional rights or natural freedoms.

Alright, I'll bite on this and explain to the best of my ability.

The military as a whole is a servant of the Federal Gov. and the President. All too often I get the impression that some people believe Government = Military. They should be viewed as two completely separate entities as far as I'm concerned. The military simply obeys the orders that it is given. It is the job of the military to execute and complete the mission.

I believe that the US military, as a whole, is a noble force that is out to do good things. We believe in defending the Constitution. We believe in defending the freedom of every American. We all have families and loved ones back at home. We want to do everything in our ability to secure the future of our nation. I have no doubt of this. The heart of this Soldier is all about defending the Constitution and the lives of every American. I take great pride in wearing the flag of our nation on my shoulder. I would give my life to defend it. I like to believe that every service member has the best interests of our nation at heart.

Now, on the other hand, we have the Federal Government. I would like to believe that they have our best interests in mind, but reality dictates that I can't believe that. If it were up to the military, I don't think we would be in Iraq or Afghanistan, but it's not up to us. We don't control that. We follow orders as a whole. I feel that the greatest threat to our liberty is our own government - which has nothing to do with the military.

That's my opinion anyway... direct fire at the government - not the military.

[V8 Muscle]

against the war, but hoping our troops do what they do as best as they can and make it home safely. I think our soldiers would be better used in places that really need it, like at the Mexican border and stuff

[SemperParatus]

Funny, my LES shows taxes being taken out. I'd like my extra $200/month if they're not really taking it.

[Getting_Cut22]

Fighting the people who killed 3,000 Americans is not protecting our freedom? Do you suggest we let the people responisible for this attack go free?

How many people who were responsible for that incident were caught? If that was your only objective, why is there a collosal amount of collateral damage to civilians? You declared war on 2 countries because of a very well planned terrorist attack that worked perfectly, but I guarentee that if the bombers had been from England you wouldn't be occupying England.

[KRILLEN91]

even in the real world you face repercussions for not following orders. You people are complaining hypocritically because most of you follow as sheep everyday. Do you nogt have bosses yes. Is the nature of your jobs the same, hell no.

Exactly this.

[ryan250]

War On Terrorism=war on an tactic=wat?

Ding ding ding.

Although, I am now added to the "terrorist" list. I support Paul, guns and the constitution.

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

[stealth_swimmer]

I pray you aren't serious with this. My girlfriend is a state employee and she pays taxes. My father is a state employee and pays taxes. It's taken out of their paychecks as well as the fact that they must file for state and federal income tax.

Not my fault if you can't grasp the concept. They might FILE for taxes, but they don't "pay" taxes cus ALL the money comes from taxes. They get paid by taxes and then file...but all that really means is that the government keeps a part of that money so it's really like simply being paid less.

Lemme put it this way, if 5 people save up a dollar...and then all of that savings is paid to a 6th person so they get 5 dollars....and then that 6th person has to put a dollar of that same money back, they are NOT contributing to the pool of money. All they're doing is just being paid 4 dollars.

[Getting_Cut22]

I don't agree with the war in Iraq based on what I know about it. I think you would have to be a really narrow minded fool to come to the conclusion that the war is justified based on the evidence available. The negatives are overwhelming - there doesn't appear to be even the beginnings of an arguement, never mind a winning arguement, in favour of the war, based on the evidence available.

However, you would only have to be slightly less of a narrow minded fool to think that the finer and more sensitive details and reasons behind international conflict are made available to the public.

I seriously doubt Bush/Obama etc even know everything themselves. It's important to remember these people are just the faces of the government, they're good speakers (hopefully) and are supposed to be popular with the masses, but their involvement in such matters as war is limited.

The soldiers themselves, of course, also know nothing. They just do their job and they hopefully do it well.

I trust that there are intelligent people behind the scenes who are acting in the best interests of the people (all around the world), and that whatever is happening now will, in the end, prove to be for the greater good.

My 0.000002c

What good has your military done since bailing out the Allies in both world wars?

[MrGuitar]

The people responsible for this attack directly are in prison or dead.

The people responsible by proxy, sheeeeiiit how far do you want to go back? Hopefully not too far-it gets pretty embarrassing.

Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri are dead? or are they just proxies? If you are looking to trace this back to funding and support by the united states, we did not plan and carry out the attacks on 9/11

[SemperParatus]

What's your point? I didn't say what your job was, I said that's your responsibility...meaning as far as what you're "supposed" to do. I know you folks have jobs. I've had multiple family members in the military, you douche.

My "responsibilty" is not to follow orders... where are you getting this from??? That's just part of being employed.


Are you telling me at ANY other job in the US you can just tell your boss to **** off when he tells you to do something and not face any repercussions?

[stealth_swimmer]

even in the real world you face repercussions for not following orders. You people are complaining hypocritically because most of you follow as sheep everyday. Do you nogt have bosses yes. Is the nature of your jobs the same, hell no.

x2, definitely hypocritical. If your boss at a job tells you to do something, your responsibility is to do it since they're the boss (unless you're breaking some sort of law or whatever, then you can report them).

Though I wouldn't say "as sheep" since it's not like blind following. It's for a reason - getting paid, lol.

[Jarhead274]

What makes you think you know the first thing about fighting a war?

I like to believe that I am capable of rational thought. My rational thought says do not invade countries who are of no threat, and spend countless billions of dollars doing so.

I would not have fought the war so I need know nothing of it.

Also, of course I do not pay "that much" in taxes but I pay as much as many average americans who you are "protecting and serving". You serve me, along with every other tax payer. I think what you are doing is bogus, and feel you should cease. Hopefully enough of your employers (aka taxpayers) will feel the same way and soon you will be out of the middle east.

Cheers

That doesnt even deserve an answer.

Iraq was a threat becaus it harbored, trained, and armed the same people that killed 3000 American citizens. That may not mean anything to you but it pissed me off.

We are fighting a war and since you admit to knowing nothing of how to fight it then be quiet.

I am not a cop so stop with the protect and serve ****. I do not serve you. I serve this country. We will be just as happy collecting our pay here as we are getting shot at halfway around the world. Good luck with that.

Cheers to you too.

[stealth_swimmer]

My "responsibilty" is not to follow orders... where are you getting this from??? That's just part of being employed.


Are you telling me at ANY other job in the US you can just tell your boss to **** off when he tells you to do something and not face any repercussions?

No, I didn't say that. Same as any other job.

[ryan250]

My "responsibilty" is not to follow orders... where are you getting this from??? That's just part of being employed.


Are you telling me at ANY other job in the US you can just tell your boss to **** off when he tells you to do something and not face any repercussions?

You can't compare any normal persons 9-5 to the military. They aren't even close to the same level.

[MrGuitar]

How many people who were responsible for that incident were caught? If that was your only objective, why is there a collosal amount of collateral damage to civilians? You declared war on 2 countries because of a very well planned terrorist attack that worked perfectly, but I guarentee that if the bombers had been from England you wouldn't be occupying England.

Did I ever say I supported both wars and an occupation? No. Stop bringing iraq into this. I do not support the Iraq war.