Snatch Pull and Assisting Lifts

[mvho]

Hi guys, new to the site and o lifting (about 2 months now, yes I know I am green) and had a few questions.

1. When doing Snatch Pulls, shrugs, Clean Pulls, shrugs etc..... Do you lift more than you can actually snatch, cj?

Or, do you work within a percentage that you can actually snatch? For example, I can snatch 60kg so I would never snatch pull for more than 60kg. Normally, I would snatch pull 5x5 at about 80%.

My thinking, is that you should train with a lot heavier weight when doing such exercises right? So, when you do the actual lift, your body knows to pull harder etc..

Appreciate any insight.

2. Just wanted to confirm: new members can not upload videos. I wanted input on my form for my very 1st competition. I was quite nervous and rushed most of my lifts.

[dcamnc]

I'm pretty new too so take my answer with a grain of salt. I think it really just depends. Some guys here (and elsewhere) lift to a max almost every workout. These guys would probably pull slightly above what they are doing on the actual lifts or maxes (normally around %5ish over). Some of us don't max every workout, and only pull slightly above what % they used that day on the lifts. I'm sure there are routines where things are staggered around and your pull %'s seem random. What I'm saying is, normally you'll pull slightly over what your lifting for the day (or week if on a certain cycle) on the classical lifts, but not always, depending on the program.

What I've seen:

1. Always does pulls over the PR amount.

2. Does pulls over what they're lifting for that day/cycle, but may not be over the PR.

3. Something entirely different, staggered intensity, cycles, more complicated routines.

4. Does whatever they feel like.


Deadlifts and shrugs are normally done for a higher % than pulls/classical lifts, but this can be changed according to the person too.


Maybe a more experienced person will be along to better help.

[SquatzAndPuke]

In regards to pulls, it would depend on what you're using the pulls for. If it's for technique work, you'd probably want to work at submaximal weights. If its to build strength, overload is obviously desired. The amount of overload is debatable, some people like to do pulls around their max snatch while others like to overload significantly - both have their pros and cons, so I suggest figuring out what works best for you. Personally I like to do both...

As for videos, make a youtube account, upload them there, and post the link.

[GoJu]

I've seen varied percentages used and it depends on the training style used by the lifter (bulgarian, russian, chinese); the russians tend to use anywhere from 90-110% of the lift normally for doubles and triples, the chinese have a higher ceiling that they allow for the pulls like 120-130ish% (at this point it might become a deadlift but even the very heavy weights are used to train positions at weights you wouldn't be using in the classic lifts so its easier for your body to pull with the normal weights); I agree with squatsandpuke it depends on what you're using them for

[mvho]

Thanks for the input guys.

I think I will work on my technique for now since It sucks and I know my strength is adequate.

Do any of you find that you cut your pull short? I seem to not "shrug enough" and my damn hips ALWAYS comes up first.

Should I concentrate on working with the hang position you think? I'll upload my vid so you can see my hips.

[GoJu]

Thanks for the input guys.

I think I will work on my technique for now since It sucks and I know my strength is adequate.

Do any of you find that you cut your pull short? I seem to not "shrug enough" and my damn hips ALWAYS comes up first.

Should I concentrate on working with the hang position you think? I'll upload my vid so you can see my hips.

hip mobility and hamstring flexibility are the keys for that since I've been battling the hips coming up first for oh I'd say a couple years now

I've been using lifts from blocks recently to get volume in the lifts in and trying to do pulls off the floor with the best position my flexibility allows, remember to keep your chest up (this will tighten your back) and tense your glutes off the floor and flex your lats (this will help breake the bar off the floor in the correct position)

foam roll your hips, hams, and calves; use a tennis or baseball to get into little areas like the piriformis and psoas and static stretch those as well

[SquatzAndPuke]

Thanks for the input guys.

I think I will work on my technique for now since It sucks and I know my strength is adequate.

Do any of you find that you cut your pull short? I seem to not "shrug enough" and my damn hips ALWAYS comes up first.

Should I concentrate on working with the hang position you think? I'll upload my vid so you can see my hips.

Sometimes I cut my pull short when I'm doing a full lift at light weights, so I like to power everything till I can't power anymore. As for shrugging, that's not really a critical step - theres a bunch of good lifters who don't shrug much at all.

A little hang work never hurts, but I wouldn't overdo it.

[mvho]

Thanks for helping a newb to the sport guys. As promised, my vids:



My CJ
youtube.com/watch?v=Lo48JrnKiOs

My Snatch.
youtube.com/watch?v=KKv4XpvQouo

This is my 3rd snatch that did not count. 2 of the 3 felt there was a press out. I didn't even know what a press out was until someone explained it to me after.

youtube.com/watch?v=3h7dBDkiO-E




I went 5/6 and hope to hit 70 and 90 in a month (I hit 65kg today for 3 singles actually-hurrah)

[madaozeki]

Embedding for convenience. Great thread

[mvho]

Thanks for the embedding Mada! Input on my lifts appreciated.

[slecontev]

I am going to reply to the original poster without reading the other replies so my apologies if I am repeating others.

After watching videos I don't think you should do any full range clean or snatch pulls at the present time. Perhaps you could do them in partials, e.g. off the blocks or from the hang. You still have too much work to do on your technique in the snatch and clean & jerk to start doing heavy lifts the pulls. IMO.

Do bodybuilding movements if you want, shrugs, deadlifts, squats if you want if you still have energy after constantly striving to perfect your lifts.

[gewaltiger]

ive heard that people never really go above 110% on their pulls.
as for me, if i were to EVER do a clean or snatch pull, i would do them most likely at 105-110% and work on the extension of my hips and still being explosive with it. make sure you remember to still be explosive in your pulls, its not just a slow deadlift-type lift

[gbg]

I am going to reply to the original poster without reading the other replies so my apologies if I am repeating others.

After watching videos I don't think you should do any full range clean or snatch pulls at the present time. Perhaps you could do them in partials, e.g. off the blocks or from the hang. You still have too much work to do on your technique in the snatch and clean & jerk to start doing heavy lifts the pullsIMO.

Do bodybuilding movements if you want, shrugs, deadlifts, squats if you want if you still have energy after constantly striving to perfect your lifts.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

have you tried power shrugs?

[GoJu]

I don't get why there's such a stigma against heavy pulls, the lifts themselves are composed of 3 of them

also just because you might do a pull heavy and possibly slow does NOT mean your body will instantly think it needs to do the classic lifts slow, they're too light in that regard for it to turn out slow

[olyw8lifter]

I just had a session with Glenn Pendlay yesterday with my snatches. One of the things he said that was contradicted with everything I've been told is that the shrug is not to pull the bar higher, but instead to pull your body under the bar faster. Look at the elite lifters and you will see that they all (almost) shrug to pull themselves under the bar. Just something to think about, but it definately made sense to me. BTW, I tend to do pulls with 95% to 110% with either lift and sometimes a set or two of deadlifts with shrug up to heavy 5's or 3's.

[madaozeki]

I just had a session with Glenn Pendlay yesterday with my snatches. One of the things he said that was contradicted with everything I've been told is that the shrug is not to pull the bar higher, but instead to pull your body under the bar faster. Look at the elite lifters and you will see that they all (almost) shrug to pull themselves under the bar. Just something to think about, but it definately made sense to me. BTW, I tend to do pulls with 95% to 110% with either lift and sometimes a set or two of deadlifts with shrug up to heavy 5's or 3's.

This is precisely the reason I tell people not to "shrug the bar higher". For full lifts it's a limiting strategy and takes focus away from the main goal, which should be to get the heck under the bar.

[ILIFT!]

I've gone up to 120% for Snatch Pulls.
I've also stopped at about 90% for Snatch Pulls.

Unfortunately there is no correct answer, since depending on your competition cycle your loads will vary (ie, you're not pulling 120% during the prepratory cycle).

[mvho]

For now, I think I'll just work on my technique and not worry too much about PR's. I still feel like I muscle everything (until it is too heavy for me).

Whereabouts are you located in BC ilift

[ILIFT!]

For now, I think I'll just work on my technique and not worry too much about PR's. I still feel like I muscle everything (until it is too heavy for me).

Whereabouts are you located in BC ilift

HAHA, Dude I was in that meet

I got bronze in 77kg. you're Michael Vo from Barbarians? I lift with Semi. I was the only other asian person in the warm up room for the light weights.

[mvho]

Bwahahah Awesome, how weird that I didn't get a chance to say hi to ya at the meet! Well maybe Ill see you at the next meet in ogopogo

I feel like a jackass now. I was blown away at what a great program Dieter has set up, I know my HS never had bumper plates. Lucky bastards.

If you graduate though, can you still lift out at Semi?

[ILIFT!]

Bwahahah Awesome, how weird that I didn't get a chance to say hi to ya at the meet! Well maybe Ill see you at the next meet in ogopogo

I feel like a jackass now. I was blown away at what a great program Dieter has set up, I know my HS never had bumper plates. Lucky bastards.

If you graduate though, can you still lift out at Semi?

Yup, I'll be at Ogopogo. I'll probably be lifting in 85kg cause it's not that big a competition and I'm not going to bother dropping weight for it.

No worries, Dieter is an amazing coach. I actually didn't go to Highschool at Semi. I actually just joined, I lifted with Semi last year for about a month, then had to go overseas for work, I just came back in June and have been practicing seriously since. Seafest was my first meet. I'm hoping to make the national qualifier at BC Provincials.

[raffiki]

Here is a good article mostly about pulls:

http://weightliftingexchange.com/ind...=134&Itemid=60

[mvho]

Thanks for the link raffikki, good read

[Arlecchino]

I don't get why there's such a stigma against heavy pulls, the lifts themselves are composed of 3 of them

also just because you might do a pull heavy and possibly slow does NOT mean your body will instantly think it needs to do the classic lifts slow, they're too light in that regard for it to turn out slow

Because in a lot of cases where people do not have sufficient strength to pull a heavier weight with proper technique it can lead to bad habits with the full lifts.