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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    Your speed skating has worked to advantage for sure! I'm guessing you pretty much reached your genetic potential (or pretty close to) with your lower 1/2 1st because of your skating.
    That's what I'm thinking.

    Now you say your legs are the same size now as back then. But did you lose a certain amount of body fat which was replaced with lean mass?
    I believe so, at least I sure hope so!

    Do your legs look any different now compared to back then? They've got to look leaner due to your years of training and skating.
    Yes, definitely. Before speed skating there was no quad separation to speak of and I certainly never saw any teardrop shapes like I do now either. That's going off memory and one old photo that I just looked at.

    So I would have to conclude that my legs had already reached their potential by the time I started weight training and made the effort to put on upper body mass.

    So I guess the gals on here who are beginners also may experience changes in their legs anyway even if they are only focusing on gaining upper body mass. I guess if I were in their shoes and was really worried about my legs getting too bulky I'd still stick to doing high reps for legs and low reps for upper body and just see where it got me in about a year, re-evaluate and make changes to the training as necessary. Depending on each person's genetics, some may want to start training legs heavy and others perhaps not. It can be so subjective, depends on what look they like and what/how they actually do with their training and diets. But definitely for those wanting to compete I'd always say weight train legs heavy right along with everything else.
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  2. #32
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    What bugs me is women are going to come into this thread and jump on the band wagon "Oh yes, I too have the same problem...I add muscle way too fast in my legs...so now they're too bulky."

    No woman will ever train her legs again...such a sad sad day for bb.com...

    /rant
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    What bugs me is women are going to come into this thread and jump on the band wagon "Oh yes, I too have the same problem...I add muscle way too fast in my legs...so now they're too bulky."

    No woman will ever train her legs again...such a sad sad day for bb.com...

    /rant
    Hehe. You're totally right.

    The simple fact is that as women most of us hold the majority of our fat on our legs/lower half, NOT that we build muscle so fast/easily there. There needs to be some sort of computer program where we can input a photo and the program has the ability to strip away all the fat leaving just the muscle so each of us can truly see the amount of muscle we carry on all our different body parts. I sure would like to see for myself. I am MUCH leaner on my upper body. I would really like to see how the size of my legs would compare to my upper body if both halves had the same amount of fat. My guess is that my legs would actually look SMALL, too small in comparison to my upper body, either that or it would be close, they definitely wouldn't be too big in comparison, that I am sure of.
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  4. #34
    Registered User kimm4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BuffedWildCat View Post
    That's what I'm thinking.



    I believe so, at least I sure hope so!



    Yes, definitely. Before speed skating there was no quad separation to speak of and I certainly never saw any teardrop shapes like I do now either. That's going off memory and one old photo that I just looked at.

    So I would have to conclude that my legs had already reached their potential by the time I started weight training and made the effort to put on upper body mass.

    So I guess the gals on here who are beginners also may experience changes in their legs anyway even if they are only focusing on gaining upper body mass. I guess if I were in their shoes and was really worried about my legs getting too bulky I'd still stick to doing high reps for legs and low reps for upper body and just see where it got me in about a year, re-evaluate and make changes to the training as necessary. Depending on each person's genetics, some may want to start training legs heavy and others perhaps not. It can be so subjective, depends on what look they like and what/how they actually do with their training and diets. But definitely for those wanting to compete I'd always say weight train legs heavy right along with everything else.
    You nailed it in your last paragraph! How does a beginner know that there legs can't ever get smaller or look leaner if they haven't reached their genetic potential? You stay around 20% body fat or close to it and you legs look great! So people that assume that they have to walk around with low low amounts of body fat to have smaller legs not necessarily true.

    So the moral of my story is...unless you are a speed skater...don't stop training your legs

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  5. #35
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    I just wanted to share this with you and see what you thought. I got the advice to do my leg work outs in the following way from some runners. These are a bunch of strong but skinny guys who mostly want to run faster and cannot afford to get too heavy since you don't win marathons like that. They said "do low reps, but quickly with short rest. Use high enough weight that you huff and puff and break a sweat on the last set."

    They like squats with free weights best. They say that lifting slowly, or doing 11 reps with longer rests tends to build more mass (no proof) -- but that to run faster I needed to focus on building more power, it might mean a little more muscle... but mostly it would mean more power. And better running! So, I'm going with this advice-- it lets me lift heavy and focus on strength. When I lift I can tell that the muscle part of my legs is not "too bulky" the muscle in my legs are proportioned like those in my arms... but they are under more fat. Now my legs don't jiggle or look fatty, but it's still there. I'm glad that it's not jiggly but hey-- there is more I can do with these legs. I think I I got the fat down I might need to add a little muscle... I dunno...

    The other thing I wanted to mention was... golly after I lift I get some real serious muscle swelling. It freaked me out-- I think it would freak a lot of women out-- I mean you do a few sets of some exercise and the next day your quads are objectively a whole inch bigger. But it went away after another day. I think that has scared me off from lifting heavy with low reps in the past... but it might be just what my running was missing. I just need to stay calm and realize that quads can't grown and inch in a a single day. That's impossible.


    The OP looks AMAZING. But her legs seems like a longer more pretty and leaner version of mine in that they have definition, but there could still be fat there... and it's the kind of fat that is firm, even, not gross ... in fact most people would say "oh wow muscle" --and that's great! better that the place where you store fat looks like muscle than it looking like... well... fat!

    People tell me how I have muscular legs **all** the time and my legs are not even strong (but they ave good endurance) and they are the most fatty part of my body. easily...

    OK time to stop rambling so much. With some luck I should have some results to back all of this up over the next few weeks. Well, we shall see what happens. If I go all "hulk" and turn in to bulky green quad woman I'll write something to warn you all... LOL.
    Last edited by futurebird; 06-25-2009 at 01:52 AM.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by futurebird View Post
    12% would be a really low body fat to live at... ?
    Yes, why are you asking?
    As I said, I am not interested in competing. I want to live a healthy normal life, eating clean, but eating and not starving myself and not worrying every single second about having a little bit of extra calories.
    12% body fat is called ESSENTIAL FAT for a reason.
    I don't see any benefits for maintaining a low body fat (low for me means below 15-16%) if the woman is not competing or is a fitness-model.
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by juliacheh View Post
    Yes, why are you asking?
    As I said, I am not interested in competing. I want to live a healthy normal life, eating clean, but eating and not starving myself and not worrying every single second about having a little bit of extra calories.
    12% body fat is called ESSENTIAL FAT for a reason.
    I don't see any benefits for maintaining a low body fat (low for me means below 15-16%) if the woman is not competing or is a fitness-model.

    Oh! I thought you were saying that was your goal... and I was like "I though she said she wanted something she could live with" ... My bad.
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  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by futurebird View Post
    Oh! I thought you were saying that was your goal... and I was like "I though she said she wanted something she could live with" ... My bad.
    Oh yeah, that's OK, sorry if I jumped on you or something.
    I am totally confused by everything that's has been said in this thread. Basically, the ideal approach would be train your legs heavy and then lean out.

    I am not even sure what my current body fat is now, but even if, as BuffedWildCat says, I am at 20-22%, I don't care anymore, it was hard for me even to get to that level. I work full-time have a three year old, and it's challenging for me to find time to work out, let alone thinking about going down to 12% body fat.
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  9. #39
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    juliacheh, I didn't think anyone was saying go to 12% body fat.

    I don't know I'm at about 22% (maybe 23%) I have a similar pattern of fat distribution to you... nice abs... more on the legs. I feel like I could lose more fat and get to lik 19% or 18% and be done ...
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  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by futurebird View Post
    juliacheh, I didn't think anyone was saying go to 12% body fat.

    I don't know I'm at about 22% (maybe 23%) I have a similar pattern of fat distribution to you... nice abs... more on the legs. I feel like I could lose more fat and get to lik 19% or 18% and be done ...
    I am much leaner now that I was a month ago, and my legs became smaller, I took measurements. I don't know about body fat, but I am definitely leaner and lost three pounds, hopefully, of fat:-). I think 18% is great, if you are not competing. Good luck!
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  11. #41
    Registered User Figure8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    I know tons of female figure competitors with a hell of a lot of muscle. In all the years I've been competing (yes forever) and watching all my friends compete...never have I ever heard a judge tell a female competitor that their legs are too muscular. That's like a judge telling a competitor they're holding too much water...it's a nice way of saying you're still holding too much body fat and need to come in leaner...

    Some judges are not meant to be judges and that's all I will say about this...
    interesting...so I guess 11.5% is too 'fat' in your book....not to be rude but thats ridicuous. An I'm not trying ot start a argument but your friends have nothing to do with me. Most woman DONT have really big legs I'd say 95%. 11.5% is very lean and its lean enough to realize if you have symmetry issues. My trainer was a IFBB pro (Christine Bongiovanni) and she told me they were too big compared to my upper body and not to train them..but I guess she doesnt what shes doing... right? ( and i dont want ot add more muscle in my upper body) And trust me she had no problem telling me if I wasnt lean enough. Must be impossible for someone to really have big quads that arent fat! Sorry I'm not trying to be a you know what but your attitiude towards this is like well her legs are just fat thats it....when I know thats not it!
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  12. #42
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    Figure8 - Muscle takes a while to lose. If you don't want to gain more mass on your upper body, maybe not working legs is the best choice.

    Have you tried distance running or some similar long duration cardio? "Function defines form" as my dad would say and distance runners have smaller looking legs than sprinters.

    I've heard of some Ms. Fitness competitors who don't work their legs because they were told they are too muscular. Different organizations want different looks. If it's from a competition standpoint you want your legs smaller and not just for yourself, you could see if you could find an organization who wants the more muscular, larger look.

    I grew up doing dance and baton and had different pants for when I was in season and when I was less in season (there never was an off season). My legs have plenty of fat but plenty of muscle too. I've all but given up on being in proportion. Now I just lift in order to get stronger and whatever happens physique wise happens.

    Good luck and if you figure out a way to do it, let me know. :P
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  13. #43
    Potato chip queen. fitlover's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Figure8 View Post
    I have big legs even when I've competed and gotten very lean. My legs are just naturally big and muscular...is there any way to prevent them from getting bigger but still working them? or better yet make them a tad smaller?
    Give some of your quads to meeeee!!

    I'll take em gladly
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  14. #44
    Registered User kimm4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Figure8 View Post
    interesting...so I guess 11.5% is too 'fat' in your book....not to be rude but thats ridicuous. An I'm not trying ot start a argument but your friends have nothing to do with me. Most woman DONT have really big legs I'd say 95%. 11.5% is very lean and its lean enough to realize if you have symmetry issues. My trainer was a IFBB pro (Christine Bongiovanni) and she told me they were too big compared to my upper body and not to train them..but I guess she doesnt what shes doing... right? ( and i dont want ot add more muscle in my upper body) And trust me she had no problem telling me if I wasnt lean enough. Must be impossible for someone to really have big quads that arent fat! Sorry I'm not trying to be a you know what but your attitiude towards this is like well her legs are just fat thats it....when I know thats not it!
    This is your whole problem right here. You keep insisting that you were at 11.5% body fat and I'm telling you sorry but you weren't. I never said you didn't have muscle and your legs were just fat...that's ridiculous. But you keep coming in here insisting that your legs were too muscular come stage time when the fact is your legs didn't get lean enough period!

    Sure your trainer had you stop training your legs if they didn't match your upper body. (A drastic measure that many trainers use to try to lean their clients out!)

    At the end of the day you have to do what's best for you. I can't tell you train legs or not train legs...that's your choice.

    Some people don't like my approach, but I'm speaking the truth. Some people listen, some don't and I don't have a problem with that...
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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    This is your whole problem right here. You keep insisting that you were at 11.5% body fat and I'm telling you sorry but you weren't. I never said you didn't have muscle and your legs were just fat...that's ridiculous. But you keep coming in here insisting that your legs were too muscular come stage time when the fact is your legs didn't get lean enough period!

    Sure your trainer had you stop training your legs if they didn't match your upper body. (A drastic measure that many trainers use to try to lean their clients out!)

    At the end of the day you have to do what's best for you. I can't tell you train legs or not train legs...that's your choice.

    Some people don't like my approach, but I'm speaking the truth. Some people listen, some don't and I don't have a problem with that...
    well im going to do more spinning.....in my pic I still had water in me...Im only saying 11.5 cause THe under water testing is suppose to be very accurate and thats what i was told ...Anywho Thanks everyone for the feedback
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    I agree with Kim on this, you weren't 11.5% bodyfat and okay, to get really into it here, since we are talking about competing... your legs were overpowering your upper body in that pic, so you were out of proportion, which does not equal a winning physique. Soo... you either need to add muscle mass to your upper body or try to shrink your legs in order to be in proportion and honestly I think it would be easier/better to add mass to your upper body then focus on leaning out when the time comes to compete again. A winning physique is proportionate and symmetrical. So yeah, the judges said what they said because RELATIVELY speaking, your legs were too muscular, relatively speaking meaning in comparison to your upper body. They probably assumed you'd figure that out.
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    Originally Posted by juliacheh View Post
    ...
    I am not even sure what my current body fat is now, but even if, as BuffedWildCat says, I am at 20-22%, I don't care anymore, it was hard for me even to get to that level. I work full-time have a three year old, and it's challenging for me to find time to work out, let alone thinking about going down to 12% body fat.
    I can tell this is really bothering you... seriously I didn't say what I said to offend you, I'm just being honest, and it's just my guess. I was once in your shoes, I was VERY upset to find out back in the day that I wasn't 18% like I thought I was, even after 3 months of being on a diet, I calipered out at 22% and I just couldn't friggin believe it. I was in denial for so long. Now that I've been in this sport for 9 years now, I've been around it all enough to get a better handle on what different levels of bodyfat look like on women and also what kind of disciplined eating it takes to achieve low levels of bodyfat. And hubby and I have practiced quite a bit on each other with the calipers and comparing it to an experienced personal trainer so I know we're pretty close with my bodyfat measurements. Sorry... please don't hate me. I'm a mom too, of two, a three year old and a 9 month old and I work my ass off and I am more disciplined in my eating than anyone I know but yet so far I've not been able to even get back down to 18% bodyfat since I started my strict dieting in March. So I'm right there with ya. I've gotten to the point where I don't care what the number is anymore, I just want to look a certain way and indeed even at my "fat" 21% (which isn't fat for a female by any stretch of the imagination) total bodyfat, I am more defined/toned than anyone I've come across so far since getting back into the game so-to-speak in March, both in the gym I workout in and out of everyone on my speed skating team. I have better abs then all but two of the guys even. So when I look at all that, 21% means nothing. And THAT'S what ya gotta do. I simply want women to realize what realistic bodyfat is and if anything, that even 20-22% is freaken awesome if you have some muscle on your frame!
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    Originally Posted by futurebird View Post
    I just wanted to share this with you and see what you thought. I got the advice to do my leg work outs in the following way from some runners. These are a bunch of strong but skinny guys who mostly want to run faster and cannot afford to get too heavy since you don't win marathons like that. They said "do low reps, but quickly with short rest. Use high enough weight that you huff and puff and break a sweat on the last set."

    They like squats with free weights best. They say that lifting slowly, or doing 11 reps with longer rests tends to build more mass (no proof) -- but that to run faster I needed to focus on building more power, it might mean a little more muscle... but mostly it would mean more power. And better running! So, I'm going with this advice-- it lets me lift heavy and focus on strength. When I lift I can tell that the muscle part of my legs is not "too bulky" the muscle in my legs are proportioned like those in my arms... but they are under more fat. Now my legs don't jiggle or look fatty, but it's still there. I'm glad that it's not jiggly but hey-- there is more I can do with these legs. I think I I got the fat down I might need to add a little muscle... I dunno......
    I don't know, but I think you are going to end up in the same boat I did. I started weight training my legs in hopes of becoming a faster speed skater, before I knew any better, and all it did was slow me down. See, cause when you weight train your legs, especially lower reps, you are training your neuromuscular system for STRENGTH. You need POWER, which is how fast you can generate force. You have to be able to generate maximum force in the shortest amount of time possible and unfortunately traditional weight training is only going to train your strength, which, if you really truly need more strength, then possibly it may help you but the thing is, you are sacrificing one for the other. Pure strength is slow and you won't get faster until you can generate that additional strength FAST. So on the contrary, if you are going to weight train your legs, you need to do it FAST and in order to do that you are going to have to lighten up the weights. If you want to be faster, you have to train fast in order to train your neuromuscular system to recruit the muscle fibers properly. Plyometrics would be better for you to do, IMO. They are exercises using your own bodyweight and they are specifically designed to enhance your POWER. We use them in speed skating at the beginning of the season. To run fast, you have to train your muscles to be fast and the traditional slow weight training with the lower reps isn't it. The only time I think it MIGHT be useful is if you are truly lacking in muscular strength and heck, even then, running with extra weight on you or trying to pull someone on skates would work better because then the training is much more specific. As in, when you get stronger, you get stronger in the exact MOVEMENT that you are doing. So doing squats will make you stronger at squats, 100% of your strength gain there is not going to transfer 100% over to your running since it's a different movement. Does any of this make sense? Google sport specific training, should be some info on it, that's what I'm talking about.
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    hmmm... well I'll keep an eye on it.

    I'm not really doing the lifting slow each set is fast. (?)

    hmmm...
    TOO BIG TO FAIL.
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    Originally Posted by Figure8 View Post
    no its not that my legs are fat ( im sure they could be leaner) even on stage at my competitons I've been told their too big muscular that is. Thats what the jugdes told me. It's genetics
    Originally Posted by Figure8 View Post
    not sure if OP is refering to me but my legs were the leanest part of my body when I was on stage so again thats not it. you could see all my muslces..some people really just have bigger legs. I was measured in water at 11.5 percent before my show so i think thats lean enough where you can determine your legs arent too big due to excessive fat. I had to kill myself to get there so theres no way i can live like that so my legs look smaller.
    *FACEPALM*

    Seriously, as was stated before, it was because you weren't balanced that the judges said your legs were too big. Grow some lats and get a wide back, and that would balance your figure out. If you want to see LEAN legs, check out my pics from my comp. If you can't see any separation in your quads, they aren't lean.

    Since you would rather slim down your legs, it would have to come to diet. And if you would rather just 'not work your legs', then you better be prepared to have some skinny fat legs.

    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    What bugs me is women are going to come into this thread and jump on the band wagon "Oh yes, I too have the same problem...I add muscle way too fast in my legs...so now they're too bulky."

    No woman will ever train her legs again...such a sad sad day for bb.com...

    /rant
    Kim, I'm with you on wanting bigger legs. Let's go workout together.

    Originally Posted by Figure8 View Post
    interesting...so I guess 11.5% is too 'fat' in your book....not to be rude but thats ridicuous. An I'm not trying ot start a argument but your friends have nothing to do with me. Most woman DONT have really big legs I'd say 95%. 11.5% is very lean and its lean enough to realize if you have symmetry issues. My trainer was a IFBB pro (Christine Bongiovanni) and she told me they were too big compared to my upper body and not to train them..but I guess she doesnt what shes doing... right? ( and i dont want ot add more muscle in my upper body) And trust me she had no problem telling me if I wasnt lean enough. Must be impossible for someone to really have big quads that arent fat! Sorry I'm not trying to be a you know what but your attitiude towards this is like well her legs are just fat thats it....when I know thats not it!
    Actually, most women (hey, I'll grab that 95% figure you just made up) have big legs because they're covered in fat. Are we talking about how you want your legs to look on stage? Or in shorts during the summer? Two different goals entirely.

    I would suggest you work on your upper body to build up your shoulders and back more to give you that nice 'X' shape, and just maintain your legs. If not, you can join the majority of the female population and be happy being skinny fat.
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    Originally Posted by norinicole View Post
    *FACEPALM*

    Actually, most women (hey, I'll grab that 95% figure you just made up) have big legs because they're covered in fat.
    Unfortunately, that's true:-(.
    Looks like I carry 90% of my fat in my upper legs, and this is true for a lot of women I know.
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    Originally Posted by juliacheh View Post
    Unfortunately, that's true:-(.
    Looks like I carry 90% of my fat in my upper legs, and this is true for a lot of women I know.
    I know! So do I. Good thing I've gotten my back wider to even it out
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    Originally Posted by juliacheh View Post
    Unfortunately, that's true:-(.
    Looks like I carry 90% of my fat in my upper legs, and this is true for a lot of women I know.
    Once you get someone to take your skinfold measurements you'll really know for sure where you carry the most fat. Skinfold measurements tell you how your fat is distributed. My highest reading is indeed on my quads.

    And norinicole is right on with her advice. That's exactly what I've done too, I've added mass to my upper body, my lats have gotten wider, my shoulders have gotten wider, and even though my tops fit differently now, now my upper and lower body are IN PROPORTION so I look a heck of a lot better. I think adding mass to one's upper body instead of trying to shrink one's legs, would be easier. My legs would still be big even if I didn't do anything with them, they'd still be big and then with a crappy composition of more fat and less muscle.
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