high protein/low carb = liver damage?? HELP

[BigDaveo11]

I have had high liver readings for awhile now, consensus with the doctor last year was that all the supplements i was taking (NO, Creatine, Test) damaged the liver. 6 months later after stopping supplements, numbers were still way way above normal (both categories AST and ATP???) normals are 0-55 mine were in both categories about 150-200. Wondering why the numbers didn't go back down after stopping supplements but I guess for people with "liver disease" a high protein/low carb diet is harmful, not giving the liver a chance to heal, before my second test i was eating around 300g of protein a day and carb cycling with a few no carb days and the other days were about 200g. My liver glycogen was really low as well. Any1 else have this issue? I stopped all extra whey powders, now just eating about 24g of protein from whole foods, 6 meals a day with high clean carbs such as oats, pasta, fruit, bread (1000g). Hopefully this will help it heal up so i can cut for the rest of summer but interesting to see if anyone had any thoughts on this, but hey at least i get to eat carbs b/c i love my carbs,

[BecomeLegendary]

I had the same problem. It's because you are eating waaay too much protein. Your liver has to break the extra amino acids down and send them to the muscles to be changed to inbetween substrates of glucose to be utilized as energy because your body is lacking carbs to fuel your body. Other parts of the broken down amino acids are transported to the kidneys and discarded in urine as urea. This is really really hard on the kidneys, and this is the main problem I had. My kidneys were not functioning properly and not filtering much of anything because the I was eating way too much protein. I now eat 1g per day and fill the rest of my calories with about 55-60% carbs and 10% fats. Works awesome and I have never felt better, I can tell a huge difference.

[BigDaveo11]

I had the same problem. It's because you are eating waaay too much protein. Your liver has to break the extra amino acids down and send them to the muscles to be changed to inbetween substrates of glucose to be utilized as energy because your body is lacking carbs to fuel your body. Other parts of the broken down amino acids are transported to the kidneys and discarded in urine as urea. This is really really hard on the kidneys, and this is the main problem I had. My kidneys were not functioning properly and not filtering much of anything because the I was eating way too much protein. I now eat 1g per day and fill the rest of my calories with about 55-60% carbs and 10% fats. Works awesome and I have never felt better, I can tell a huge difference.

very interesting, it has been hard to get answers from even my doctor, going in for an ultrasound in a few days though, your explanation makes perfect sense, care to share how high your numbers were and how much protein you were intaking before. I am going to fix my ratios, similiar to yours as well and then just adjust my calories based on my goal, hopefully liver will then have time to heal consuming around 1g (going to cut out all whey/casein powders), again appreciate the response, any other info would be awesome if you are willing to share

[Epith]

Certain precautions are must for every one such as taking or buying drugs or eating foods as health supplements for self satisfaction or self awareness. These self innovative or acquired ideas from friends or from media sources can cause your life and you may even possibly land up in coma hence stop going for this and always seek doctors help.

[Iceman1800]

Get some liv-52 and/or milk thistle, your liver will thank you for it

[spectre86]

interesting, iv been on a high protein/low carb diet for quite awhile. think ill get my liver checked just to be sure.

[TaoistWarrior]

I have had high liver readings for awhile now, consensus with the doctor last year was that all the supplements i was taking (NO, Creatine, Test) damaged the liver. 6 months later after stopping supplements, numbers were still way way above normal (both categories AST and ATP???) normals are 0-55 mine were in both categories about 150-200. Wondering why the numbers didn't go back down after stopping supplements but I guess for people with "liver disease" a high protein/low carb diet is harmful, not giving the liver a chance to heal, before my second test i was eating around 300g of protein a day and carb cycling with a few no carb days and the other days were about 200g. My liver glycogen was really low as well. Any1 else have this issue? I stopped all extra whey powders, now just eating about 24g of protein from whole foods, 6 meals a day with high clean carbs such as oats, pasta, fruit, bread (1000g). Hopefully this will help it heal up so i can cut for the rest of summer but interesting to see if anyone had any thoughts on this, but hey at least i get to eat carbs b/c i love my carbs,

In a healthy individual with normal organ function, a low carbohydrate diet is fine. I eat a diet like this and have normal liver and kidney function. However I don't eat 300 grams of protein a day. I have noticed over time the amount, setting carb/fat intake aside, the protein intake level at which I feel good. If I go much above that I feel sluggish. That point for me is between 200-250 grams. But you are a bigger dude and might get away with more. If you're hitting your cal/macro targets, it boils down to how you feel.

One thing that I have observed too often with this style of diet is people often arent doing it properly. Here's how:

1. They are eating too much protein. This should be a moderate protein diet.
2. They are not eating enough fat! This is a fawking high-fat diet dammit. Your body runs optimally on either fat or carbs for energy- you must supply adequate levels of at least one of these.
3. They are sourcing too much of their protein from highly processed sources like powders/bars. Whole food FTMFW, always.
4. They aren't drinking enough water.
5. They aren't getting enough healthy, whole foods - vegetables, fruits, etc.
6. They aren't getting enough sleep/rest (true of just about any WoE or training style.)

Elevated liver enzymes don't always indicate serious liver damage... but it is troubling that 6 months later, yours were still elevated.

Your post is not recent- what did the ultrasound reveal?

[New Evolution]

In a healthy individual with normal organ function, a low carbohydrate diet is fine. I eat a diet like this and have normal liver and kidney function. However I don't eat 300 grams of protein a day. I have noticed over time the amount, setting carb/fat intake aside, the protein intake level at which I feel good. If I go much above that I feel sluggish. That point for me is between 200-250 grams. But you are a bigger dude and might get away with more. If you're hitting your cal/macro targets, it boils down to how you feel.

One thing that I have observed too often with this style of diet is people often arent doing it properly. Here's how:

1. They are eating too much protein. This should be a moderate protein diet.
2. They are not eating enough fat! This is a fawking high-fat diet dammit. Your body runs optimally on either fat or carbs for energy- you must supply adequate levels of at least one of these.
3. They are sourcing too much of their protein from highly processed sources like powders/bars. Whole food FTMFW, always.
4. They aren't drinking enough water.
5. They aren't getting enough healthy, whole foods - vegetables, fruits, etc.
6. They aren't getting enough sleep/rest (true of just about any WoE or training style.)

Elevated liver enzymes don't always indicate serious liver damage... but it is troubling that 6 months later, yours were still elevated.

Your post is not recent- what did the ultrasound reveal?

Interesting. I just started this high protein and low carb diet just over a week. Now I have to be careful not to over intake of protein powder. However, I do eat lots of veggies and fruits.

[ilove2run]

Sorry if i shouldn't post this here, but would like a little advice, (don't know if this has been answered either but)

Almost a month ago i had a few labs tested out. My BUN came back at 42 and the REF. RANGE is 6-20. I take in about 300g+ of protein per day following a 50/30/20 split. Should i not be following this split taking in this much protein and go down to 1g-2g PER LB. of body weight, and if so, how would i split up my other macros, (carbs/fats)?

Thanks to whom-ever reply's.

[determined4000]

Sorry if i shouldn't post this here, but would like a little advice, (don't know if this has been answered either but)

Almost a month ago i had a few labs tested out. My BUN came back at 42 and the REF. RANGE is 6-20. I take in about 300g+ of protein per day following a 50/30/20 split. Should i not be following this split taking in this much protein and go down to 1g-2g PER LB. of body weight, and if so, how would i split up my other macros, (carbs/fats)?

Thanks to whom-ever reply's.

Yes that is more protein than you ca use/need.
Go to 2g if you wish and fill out the rest with fat ad carbs

[Crusher_]

Sorry if i shouldn't post this here, but would like a little advice, (don't know if this has been answered either but)

Almost a month ago i had a few labs tested out. My BUN came back at 42 and the REF. RANGE is 6-20. I take in about 300g+ of protein per day following a 50/30/20 split. Should i not be following this split taking in this much protein and go down to 1g-2g PER LB. of body weight, and if so, how would i split up my other macros, (carbs/fats)?

Thanks to whom-ever reply's.

Woah dude! Waaaay too much protein... A body your size (based on your stats) wont be able to utilise more than around 150g of protein a day for protein sythesis (which is all you want it to be used for).
All the excess protein is doing is overloading your liver and kidneys breaking it down excreting the excess in urine or burning it up as energy.

If i were you id cut the protein by half and make up those cals with fats..

[Emma-Leigh]

Sorry if i shouldn't post this here, but would like a little advice, (don't know if this has been answered either but)

Almost a month ago i had a few labs tested out. My BUN came back at 42 and the REF. RANGE is 6-20. I take in about 300g+ of protein per day following a 50/30/20 split. Should i not be following this split taking in this much protein and go down to 1g-2g PER LB. of body weight, and if so, how would i split up my other macros, (carbs/fats)?

Thanks to whom-ever reply's.

you might also want to read the 'is a high protein diet necessary thread' HERE. The health consequences of extremely high protein diets are covered in that...

[Aleki]

That sucks man, hope your liver gets well again

[borlef]

Woah dude! Waaaay too much protein... A body your size (based on your stats) wont be able to utilise more than around 150g of protein a day for protein sythesis (which is all you want it to be used for).
All the excess protein is doing is overloading your liver and kidneys breaking it down excreting the excess in urine or burning it up as energy.

If i were you id cut the protein by half and make up those cals with fats..

DITTO. 150 G will be EASSILLYY enough, I would stay closer to 100 G. Even read Arnold's book, he recommends about .6 G per lb and 1g per lb for hard bodybuilders. Excess protein is sooooo bad for you, more than just your liver, it is acidic and robs your bones of calcium and is really tough on your digestive system which over time will show. I don't know why people are so protein crazy, I eat about 125 grams on a higher day (I am a vegetarian so it would obv be tough to eat like 300 g, though I could taking protein powders and killing beans, tofu, etc.) and I am stronger lb for lb than any1 I know, I have no fat on me and my muscles look as good as they do when I used to crush chicken and eggs.
Focus way more on good carbs like oats, quinoa (which are both complete proteins also whole-wheat pasta and good fats like avocado, coconut and nuts. Your body will thank you for it and your muscles will get much needed glycogen back to where it should be.

[caseykaldal]

Eat a clean diet, with lots of fruits, veggies and artichoke hearts.

Get your self some dandelion tea, milk thistle and any other blood cleansing herb.

You really want to get this under control as the liver is the workhouse that keeps the body clean.

[zenzone]

for general knowledge i've been wondering about the high protein/low carb ratio effects on the liver long term. Good thread, and goodluck OP

[KQguy]

My enzymes were elevated a while back,I got an ultrasound and cat-scan done,and everything showed up as normal.I went back,and got another blood test done,and the values came back normal,(6 weeks after the first blood test).I am not sure what caused my levels to go up,because I wasn't eating much protein(this was before I started eating good again,after a 2year layoff from dieting and lifting).My doctor thinks I could of had Hepatitus A,which is something anyone can get,it will raise liver values,and usually lasts for about 6 weeks.I also took quite a bit of Milk Thistle between blood tests,so that might of helped to get my values back to normal.

[mac520]

Check out this article "The Myth of the High Protein diet": http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...tein-diet.html

Basically, low-carb does not equal high-protein. People think this because they think fat is unhealthy so they try to replace their carbs with protein. On the contrary, fats are good for you. Low-carb means high-fat. Your body can only use so much protein.

[frost_wyrm43]

sounds good

[tbonesteakboy]

Great thread. I've been pretty mean to my liver with PH's... Maybe a test is in order. I'm almost scared to find out.

I've been keeping a very well rounded diet, and keeping a balance of carbs/fats and only supplementing a little of my overall protein. You can see from my recent pic that i ditched low carb. body fat def went up. =(

[Monolix]

"Always consult with a dietician or physician before changing your diet."

[RDFinders]

Sorry if i shouldn't post this here, but would like a little advice, (don't know if this has been answered either but)

Almost a month ago i had a few labs tested out. My BUN came back at 42 and the REF. RANGE is 6-20. I take in about 300g+ of protein per day following a 50/30/20 split. Should i not be following this split taking in this much protein and go down to 1g-2g PER LB. of body weight, and if so, how would i split up my other macros, (carbs/fats)?

Thanks to whom-ever reply's.

usually used as an indicator of hydration, as it fluctuates with your water intake. 42 isn't that high and alarming, but i would def lower the protein intake below g/lb of BW. base it on your lean body mass.

[MAGnitude]

too much protein will effect the kidneys. it can elevate your creatinine levels (excess waste excreted by the kidneys.) people who intake too much protein in their diet normally develop what is called 'Proteinuria' which is excess protein in the urine, something which in time can cause kidney damage, which is indicated in decreased GFR levels (Glomerular Filtration Rate.)

GFR is an overall indication of how well ur kidneys are functioning as a whole. creatinine levels are an indication of how well the kidneys are filtering waste. elevated creatine levels almost always effect GFR levels, yet in some cases the kidney is actually functioning properly. thats why on blood tests they call it eGFR (estimated Glomerular Filtration Rate) because they use a calculation based on the current creatine levels and come up with a figure aka eGFR).

the best indicator of kidney damage is if the (eGFR) levels are decreased and there is protein present in the urine (Proteinuria).

but simply, yes too much protein can cause kidney problems/damage.

In reference to your liver.

it;s basically normal for ur liver enzymes (ALT&AST) to be slightly elevated. There are 10 billlion reasons for this, from walking to your front door to drinking green tea. 99.9% of these reasons are non harmful. it could be that the supplements may have had an effect on ur elevated levels, but there is no way of being sure as i mentioned there are so many reasons for ur liver enzymes to be elevated. the supplements are more likely to cause elevated creatinine levels, which i defined what that is earlier,especially if u were taking creatine.

in reference to ur diet, eating high protein low carbs, will have no effect on ur liver levels at all. if anything, again, the high protein would harm ur kidneys, but ur doc hasnt mentioned any indicators of that so all is good. just make sure u dont go over 1.6 grams of protein per lb of body weight and u will have no issues at all, u only need 1gram per lb anyways, make sure ur drinking plenty of water as well. try get most or all of ur protein from food. dont worry about ur liver results, they are not uncommon.

take care

[MAGnitude]

Sorry if i shouldn't post this here, but would like a little advice, (don't know if this has been answered either but)

Almost a month ago i had a few labs tested out. My BUN came back at 42 and the REF. RANGE is 6-20. I take in about 300g+ of protein per day following a 50/30/20 split. Should i not be following this split taking in this much protein and go down to 1g-2g PER LB. of body weight, and if so, how would i split up my other macros, (carbs/fats)?

Thanks to whom-ever reply's.

ur taking in way too much protein. 1g per lb i would recommend, make the rest of ur macros up withcarbs and good fats if u need to. the high protein u have been taking is suggestive of ur abnormal lab results. stop now before u do some damage.

cheers

[kanderson17]

I had the same problem. It's because you are eating waaay too much protein. Your liver has to break the extra amino acids down and send them to the muscles to be changed to inbetween substrates of glucose to be utilized as energy because your body is lacking carbs to fuel your body. Other parts of the broken down amino acids are transported to the kidneys and discarded in urine as urea. This is really really hard on the kidneys, and this is the main problem I had. My kidneys were not functioning properly and not filtering much of anything because the I was eating way too much protein. I now eat 1g per day and fill the rest of my calories with about 55-60% carbs and 10% fats. Works awesome and I have never felt better, I can tell a huge difference.

Why such a low fat percent? I am currently going to college to become a dietitian and my professor, an RD who was a sports nutritionist for many years gave us this ratio to build muscle 50% carbs, 25% protein, and 25% fat. The AMDR on fat is 20-35%.

[gijoe985]

How do they check your liver? What kind of test?

[MAGnitude]

How do they check your liver? What kind of test?

blood test called a LFT (Liver function test.) as i mentioned before there are zillions of reasons why ur liver enzymes are elevated, so therefore they may want to investigate further with some scans and what not if they are overly concerned to assertain whether actual liver damage is present, which im pretty sure is not the case. again, elevated kidney levels based on ur diet is what i would be more worried about.

[MAGnitude]

I had the same problem. It's because you are eating waaay too much protein. Your liver has to break the extra amino acids down and send them to the muscles to be changed to inbetween substrates of glucose to be utilized as energy because your body is lacking carbs to fuel your body. Other parts of the broken down amino acids are transported to the kidneys and discarded in urine as urea. This is really really hard on the kidneys, and this is the main problem I had. My kidneys were not functioning properly and not filtering much of anything because the I was eating way too much protein. I now eat 1g per day and fill the rest of my calories with about 55-60% carbs and 10% fats. Works awesome and I have never felt better, I can tell a huge difference.

classic example of what ingesting too much protein can do. i can almost gaurantee that ur blood results showed increases in creatinine levels and that u had traces of protein in ur urine?

[JayQ85]

You're talking about Aminotransferases here (Aspartate Aminotransferase, AST, and Alanine Aminotransferase, ALT). These are enzymes that are present in liver cells (hepatocytes) and leak into the blood with liver damage. AST is also present in heart and skeletal muscle, therefore raised levels are seen in heart attacks or skeletal muscle damage (such as in bodybuilding). ALT is more liver specific as it is only present in liver cells so its value would show how much damage has occurred.

As far as I know, creatine affects the kidneys more than the liver (kidney functions would decline by time, which is why it is recommended that you don't over do it and only use it for a period of 5 months and then stop for a while). I used to use creatine, but in lower doses than the ones recommended (less than 5 grams per day), but I completely stopped using it after knowing about its effects on the kidney.

I've never heard of high protein diet damaging your liver (at least not at Medical school!) but there might be other reasons that you might not be aware of. In fact, your liver might not be damaged (that's one possibility), and saying this because there are many drugs around that alter your liver function tests but once you stop them (granted no permanent harm was done to your liver), your liver functions should return to normal gradually over time (won't happen in a single day or week!). It is good that you stopped all those supplements because you actually don't need them if you can find organic resources for them. Check with your doctor and let us know your results. I'm assuming that you do not suffer from any live disease or abuse alcohol (both can damage your liver and increase those enzymes).

A normal healthy diet should be:

- low in sugar (though not sugar-free)
- high in starchy carbohydrate (especially foods with a low glycaemic index such as pasta). Carbs should represent about 40-60% of total energy intake
- high in fibre
- low in fat (especially saturated fat) which should represent less than 35% of total energy intake
- include protein representing about 15% of total energy intake (1 g per kg ideal bodyweight)

Bodybuilding diet has changed over time and the current one consists of ridiculously high amounts of protein (that's how supplement companies make their money!). YES, you do need more protein than the average individual to rebuild your muscles but don't over do it because no matter how many grams of protein you eat, your body will ONLY use the amounts that it requires and then flush the rest out of the system and you'd be wasting your money and your whey protein supplement!

I have written an article on bodybuilding diet on my website (you can access it here: click on my website in my signature or check my profile as I'm not allowed to post links yet!)
Feel free to grab a copy of the free report "The ABC's Of Bodybuilding, Diet And Fitness" were bodybuilding diet and competition diet is covered. (just click on my website link below or you'll find a link if you visit the article)

I hope that you found this post a little bit helpful and if you have any questions , I'll gladly answer them when possible.

Jay Q.

Disclaimer: I'm NOT a doctor, YET! I'm a Senior Medical Student so yes, my knowledge is fresh and updated but you should ALWAYS consult your personal doctor as he knows about your personal medical history more than anyone else!

[thegymbum]

From a speculative point of view....

If you're on a high protein diet, some of the protein is inevitibly going to be converted to different forms of carbohydrate. Alanine will often be converted to pyruvate for use as fuel or conversion to acetyl coa for storage, requiring alanine aminotransferase. I've never seen actual documentation that an extra demand for this reaction will raise ALT levels, but it does make sense, no? Similarly, aspartate is transaminated to oxaloacetate, another very important storage molecule. Required enzyme? Aspartate transaminase.

I can definitely see that, theoretically, if you're taking in a very high amount of protein, and having to use a lot of that protein for fuel (i.e. lack of dietary fat and carbohydrate, limited use of body fat as fuel), the enzymatic reactions would be siginficantly increased. In order to facilitate that, I can see that the key enzymes woiuld be upregulated. Any thoughts? Or anyone actually read any evidence for that?