The Iranian Revolution of 2009

[MantisShrimp]

You are one of the only people whom I've heard mention correct figures regarding the Iran/Iraq war. When I was growing up during that war we had bombs drop on civilian homes a street above and below me and on the road as we drove around. Bombs that had "Made in USA" somewhere on their chasis sold to the the almighty saddam hussein. Yea.. 1 million died... and then 3000 people died in the world trade center and it was perceived the most epic tragedy. Every human life is precious... but how is that 1 million Iranian blood went unnoticed, killed by American weapons...

Not unnoticed by me...the "war of the cities" and mutual civilian terrorism. In my opinion, the problem is that Jimmy Carter completely discredited the Democratic party in his ineffective handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, subjecting Americans to 8 years of republican gung-ho cavalier politics.

During that period, one of the darkest periods in American Intelligence history, we undertook a policy of moral ambiguity. "Dual use" politics, selling weapons to both sides of a conflict. The biggest mistake in American political morality in a long time.

Rather than trying to simultaneously sell to and and resist the IRI, we should have acknowledged the role we had in creating their power base. But that sort of openness was verboten in cold war politics, it only came to light after the USSR fell. We are all still paying for the cold war. Iranians are still paying for the cold war. They shouldn't have to. This is no longer about the USSR. This is about the Iranian identity, and their contribution to the world stage.

[hittman]

The forum moron squad again. Adding absolutely nothing, but the usual worthless garbage.

So, you don't like me. Boohoo. Who cares? Get a life.

Why don't you add something of substance to the topic for a change?

like you, who diverts when someone asks you to provide proof the iranian election was rigged?

in before you accuse me of aligning with the oppressors! (your 4th favourite term)

[-=E=-]

Attached Letter from Minister of Interior to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei:

I'll briefly translate what the numbers say:

Total Votes Cast: 42,026,078
Mousavi: 19,075,623
Karoubi: 13,387,104
Ahmadi Nejad: 5,698,517
Rezaei: 3,754,218
Void: 38,716


I don't know HOW this letter leaked and if it's indeed real. but the numbers speak for themselves.

[MantisShrimp]

What about the puppetmaster behind the scene, Khamenei? He is the one with real power, backed by the IRGC and the Baseej thugs. The president has some influence on domestic issues, but Khamenei has veto power over EVERY decision/policy. Khamenei is above the law. Actually the law is whatever he says it is.


The corrupt ruling clergy class has much to lose. They have grown rich via monopoly power. What you have is a mafiaso class using religion as cover. They have the Baseej thugs as mafiaso enforcers and are not shy of using violence to preserve their privilege.


Expecting the ruling clergy class and the Baseej thugs to simply give up their gravy train, is too much of a wishful thinking, I am afraid.



I truly wish I am wrong, but I do not harbour any hope that the people of Iran will be freed w/o open revolt involving the armed forces taking the people's side. Unless and until the armed forces intervene, the unarmed civilians will be 'put down' by the Baseej thugs. What we have is an armed violent mafiaso class fighting to preserve their gravy train.

I don't disagree. No religion, which is ultimately intended to be an assemblage of good ideas presented as available to potential adopters, should ever need an ARMY to keep its viewpoints relevant. Or else it is oppression masquerading as religion.

I'm willing to believe that good individuals can be found within the clergy class, but the problem is the ultimate and uncontestable judicial mandate.

It is foolish to consider that a judge may never have faltering judgment, and that a judicial branch of government may never need checks and balances.

[AltCtrlDel]

Attached Letter from Minister of Interior to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei:

I'll briefly translate what the numbers say:

Total Votes Cast: 42,026,078
Mousavi: 19,075,623
Karoubi: 13,387,104
Ahmadi Nejad: 5,698,517
Rezaei: 3,754,218
Void: 38,716


I don't know HOW this letter leaked and if it's indeed real. but the numbers speak for themselves.

**** real just got

[SkinnyWR009]

Attached Letter from Minister of Interior to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei:

I'll briefly translate what the numbers say:

Total Votes Cast: 42,026,078
Mousavi: 19,075,623
Karoubi: 13,387,104
Ahmadi Nejad: 5,698,517
Rezaei: 3,754,218
Void: 38,716


I don't know HOW this letter leaked and if it's indeed real. but the numbers speak for themselves.

I am having a really hard time believing only 5.6 million votes for nejad. who knows though.

I have a question, You said you went to school with Rezaei son. do you know any think about Rezaei that maybe most people in the western and even in Iran don't know about him? maybe not very religious like a lot of mullahs?

[DCarruso]

like you, who diverts when someone asks you to provide proof the iranian election was rigged?

in before you accuse me of aligning with the oppressors! (your 4th favourite term)

Asking ME for proof on something of that nature? Are you really THAT stupid?? Do you really have no clue WTF is going on in Iran right now?

[-=E=-]

The body of the letter roughly translates to this sentence:

"As you requested Ahamdi Nejad for security and Benefit of the Islamic nation was announced to the post of the President. But attached are the real numbers yade yada"

[AltCtrlDel]

Revolutionary Guards Arrested in Iran

According to the Cyrus News Agency, Tuesday morning 16 senior members of Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps were arrested. "These commanders have been in contact with members of the Iranian army to join the people's movement," CNA reports. "Three of the commanders are veterans of Iran-Iraq war. They have been moved to an undisclosed location in East Tehran." This report has not been confirmed by other sources. If true, it shows that the regime is losing the loyalty of some members of its control appartus, which is necessary if the opposition has any chance of achieving fundamental change. Mass rallies can easily be broken up and revolutions crushed, as we saw at Tiananmen Square in 1989. But if members of the armed forces, police and especially Revolutionary Guards decided to switch sides, then one can begin speaking of revolution.

[DCarruso]

The body of the letter roughly translates to this sentence:

"As you requested Ahamdi Nejad for security and Benefit of the Islamic nation was announced to the post of the President. But attached are the real numbers yade yada"

If that is authenticated, the fire will burn.

[DCarruso]

Revolutionary Guards Arrested in Iran

According to the Cyrus News Agency, Tuesday morning 16 senior members of Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps were arrested. "These commanders have been in contact with members of the Iranian army to join the people's movement," CNA reports. "Three of the commanders are veterans of Iran-Iraq war. They have been moved to an undisclosed location in East Tehran." This report has not been confirmed by other sources. If true, it shows that the regime is losing the loyalty of some members of its control appartus, which is necessary if the opposition has any chance of achieving fundamental change. Mass rallies can easily be broken up and revolutions crushed, as we saw at Tiananmen Square in 1989. But if members of the armed forces, police and especially Revolutionary Guards decided to switch sides, then one can begin speaking of revolution.

When the Baseej have the arms and the willingness to use violence, the unarmed citizen would need the armed forces to join them. Else they will be slaughtered.

[-=E=-]

I am having a really hard time believing only 5.6 million votes for nejad. who knows though.

I have a question, You said you went to school with Rezaei son. do you know any think about Rezaei that maybe most people in the western and even in Iran don't know about him? maybe not very religious like a lot of mullahs?

Everyone wore the mask of religion or didn't dare to talk **** about religion ... unless your friends were of the similar mindset... hell I couldn't even be straightforward with my best friends in school that I wasn't a muslim (the would probably freak out).

So yea.. if Rezaei was not religious and held massive gang bangs in his free time.. I had no way of knowing. But the image they put out was they were all fundamentalist muslims and devoted to the regime.

[Kumquatv1]

From Twitter

BIG explosion at Nooshiravani Babol University,police not letting people see what happened

[Kumquatv1]

From the WSJ article

In the past few days, a number of senior clerics have met with Mr. Khamenei or written to him, urging him to intervene, according to a series of public letters from the clerics. One grand ayatollah, one of the highest-ranking clerics, issued a religious order demanding his followers not cooperate with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's government.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124508111902415491.html

[Kumquatv1]

moggy99: RT @Woywegian: RT @Mousavi6525: RT from Iran. R ONLY demand is Gov dclares election illegitimate. Nothing more. inform world #iranelection

[-=E=-]

The 7 Points being circulated by the people of Iran today in the aftermath of the demonstrations attended by hundreds of thousands in Tehran (from Tehran Bureau):

1. Dismissal of Khamenei for not being a fair leader.

2. Dismissal of Ahmadinejad for his illegal acts.

3. Temporary appointment of Ayatollah Montazeri as the Supreme Leader.

4. Recognition of Mousavi as the President.

5. Forming the Cabinet by Mousavi to prepare for revising the Constitution,

6. Unconditional and immediate release of all political prisoners.

7. Dissolution of all organs of repression, public or secret.

[Kumquatv1]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8102224.stm

Iranian state radio says seven people were killed during Monday's protests in Tehran over the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Meanwhile, the country's Guardian Council has now described the results of the disputed poll as "provisional".

Our correspondent says the authorities appear to be weakening in their support for President Ahmadinejad.

[Gabriel Anton]

From the WSJ article

In the past few days, a number of senior clerics have met with Mr. Khamenei or written to him, urging him to intervene, according to a series of public letters from the clerics. One grand ayatollah, one of the highest-ranking clerics, issued a religious order demanding his followers not cooperate with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's government.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124508111902415491.html

If that's true, and those pictures are current.

I think Khamenei made a mistake by putting up such an implausibly high margin of victory. I think the gamble was to make it so high as remove any doubt, and yet the effect was to make it seem like a sham. He would have been better served by giving Ahmadinejad either a slim majority (52% or some such) .

The trouble without having any outside observers to either the polling or the counting, is that there is little in the way of being able to demonstrate fraud, unless people involved step forward.

Of course, this assumes there was fraud

[Kumquatv1]

I have a real hard time believing that Mousavi didn't even win his home town.

[Kumquatv1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#31378461

10 minute video of Maddow. Was pretty good at showing some of the issues.

[Kumquatv1]

One more thing. Per Twitter rally for Ahmedinajad (sp) is scheduled for 3 tommorow and one for Mousavi at 5 in the same place. That sounds like it will go well right?

[ElMariachi]

I have a real hard time believing that Mousavi didn't even win his home town.

Too many discrepancies......WAY too many discrepancies. It'd be the equivalent of a Republican losing Texas, Utah and Idaho or a Democrat losing Maryland, New York and Massachusetts here in the US.

[ElMariachi]

I'll ignore the fact that you negged me with a stupid and irrelevant comment, and respond to you.

You must consider that the majority of Iranians do not remember the western manipulation of the Shah. All they know is that they grew up under a repressive regime, and that they compare themselves to other young people in the world, who enjoy much more personal freedom.

The human spirit is not something you can keep bottled up for long. You can seek to control information, use terror, fear, and apathy, but ultimately, the only forms of governance that work in our connected world are those which allow people the right of self-determination.

Welcome to democracy, enjoy your stay.

Compare neo-SAVAK style Islam to Buddhism. You don't even have to be a Buddhist to respect its retention rate. Where one religion retains followers based on fear, the other retains based on the acknowledgement of the longings of the human spirit.

Fear based religions thrive in isolation, and can only thrive in such conditions. Iran is no longer isolated, and many Iranians have lived double lives, an in effort to be both individualistic, and safe. Well, safety is gone, and all that remains is individualism, and good luck fighting it if you have some stake in the repression of human beings.

Most of this movement is being spearheaded by those under 35. Once the old geezer's start dying out, Iran is going to get rid of this wacky authoritarian system and hateful and manipulative nuts like AquaVelvaDad are going to be a thing of the past. All tyrants have an expiration date and this repressive regime under Khameini is approaching their own deadline.

Freedom-seeking Iranians taking to the streets reminds me of the protests and struggles that the Polish people fought for in the 80s.


My father was strongly involved with the Solidarity movement and he has quite a bit of Persian friends and they are all hoping that this current rebellion leads to a greater freedom for all in Iran.

[Weightaholic]

Sounds a little far fetched that a long serving incumbent walks away with a victory of that magnitude.

[ElMariachi]

And so it continues. This revolution of sorts is clearly not dying out anytime soon.