Atheist Males Who Consider Monogyny an Ideal

BahadurShah · 06-14-2009, 05:37 PM

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

Arbex · 06-14-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

There are the pros and cons to both.

Studies have shown that some people have the monogamy gene (serious).

I could list the pros and cons to being married and not being married but doesn't matter in the end.

Personally, getting married is an epic disaster.

WilyCoder · 06-14-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

I'm technically not an atheist but rather a deist. I can tell you I am against all organized religion because its clear to me that a relationship with God is a personal thing and not to be shared. Ben Franklin was a deist too.

And yes, I believe in monogamy. Just like geese do when they mate for life. Having a partner for life transcends humanity: some of the rest of the animal kingdom exhibits this behavior too (just like homosexuality, GASP!).

I know this is the R/P and by inheritance the MISC, but there are a good number of honest and faithful women out there (no white knight). They are definitely the minority in modern America but they DO exist. Ironically they usually are 2nd Generation Americans (from Europe).

JAGERBOY · 06-14-2009, 05:42 PM

Monogamy is great until you get sick of the person.

The Kurgan · 06-14-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I suspect a large part of it is just custom, added to the fact that Western society is structured towards monogyny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

Human males are evolved to be many things that it is not morally right to be. This is why evolutionary naturalistic ethics is not a philosophically tenable position.

KiloNewton · 06-14-2009, 05:43 PM

It's not a christian ideal. Many animals mate for life. To put it very simply I don't want my girlfriend sleeping with other guys, and I know I won't have a girlfriend for much longer if I were to sleep around.

ElHombre · 06-14-2009, 05:44 PM

reporting in

WilyCoder · 06-14-2009, 05:45 PM

In other words, Monogamy is not an ideal that was invented in Christianity. Its universal to many species of life.

Arbex · 06-14-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Monogamy is great until you get sick of the person.

Holy shiet?

I agree with JAGERBOY.

Anyway.

For those interested in understanding why marriages fail, why "love" is different than what most people think, why there's cheating, why guys "think with their dicks", etc...

You can start by reading some good **** by Helen Fisher (Biological Anthropologist) here:

http://www.helenfisher.com/

ghengisconor · 06-14-2009, 05:49 PM

Monogamy isn't natural. Nor can one rest upon monogamy hoping whatever happened before marriage remains static.

However, I hope to be monogamous.

Arbex · 06-14-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghengisconor

Monogamy isn't natural. Nor can one rest upon monogamy hoping whatever happened before marriage remains static.

However, I hope to be monogamous.

Don't know if you read what I posted above, but scientists have found a gene/s that express monogamy.

Many articles out there about it, but here's one:

Monogamy gene found in people

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...5702390&page=1

zodiac666 · 06-14-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

I'm one.

I guess because I feel like I would be disrespecting my girl and that wouldn't make me feel good. It actually makes me feel good to respect my girl, and of course it wouldn't make them feel good if I was with someone else.

(of course this will be when I someday find a girl who isn't a complete whore)

AltCtrlDel · 06-14-2009, 06:02 PM

It is financially sound to be monogamous.

BahadurShah · 06-14-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilyCoder

I'm technically not an atheist but rather a deist. I can tell you I am against all organized religion because its clear to me that a relationship with God is a personal thing and not to be shared. Ben Franklin was a deist too.

And yes, I believe in monogamy. Just like geese do when they mate for life. Having a partner for life transcends humanity: some of the rest of the animal kingdom exhibits this behavior too (just like homosexuality, GASP!).

I know this is the R/P and by inheritance the MISC, but there are a good number of honest and faithful women out there (no white knight). They are definitely the minority in modern America but they DO exist. Ironically they usually are 2nd Generation Americans (from Europe).

OK, the "animals x are monogamous too" argument is completely stupid, and I'm offended (but not surprised) that someone would waste my time with such idiocy.

Human beings are not geese (who are actually polygynous in many instances anyway). We are evolved differently from monogynous species. We exhibit all the traits of a polygynous species.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Kurgan

Human males are evolved to be many things that it is not morally right to be. This is why evolutionary naturalistic ethics is not a philosophically tenable position.

OK. So why is it morally wrong to have multiple women, again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiloNewton

It's not a christian ideal. Many animals mate for life. To put it very simply I don't want my girlfriend sleeping with other guys, and I know I won't have a girlfriend for much longer if I were to sleep around.

See above.

BahadurShah · 06-14-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbex

Don't know if you read what I posted above, but scientists have found a gene/s that express monogamy.

Many articles out there about it, but here's one:

Monogamy gene found in people

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...5702390&page=1

On one level, that makes sense. In most cases, and especially with humans, not every male in a polygynous species can be polygynous; only the most 'alpha' males keep and attain multiple mates. I'm guessing that those who were predisposed toward monogyny genetically were also the least alpha.

However, the study is flawed, because there was no data obtained as to whether the men remained faithful to their wives or not.

Irezumi · 06-14-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

Atheists base their morals on logic and common sense (at least I do). You don't need Christianity or religion in general to know that sticking to one person (when you're in a committed relationship) is considered a mark of a good person.

ghengisconor · 06-14-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbex

Don't know if you read what I posted above, but scientists have found a gene/s that express monogamy.

Many articles out there about it, but here's one:

Monogamy gene found in people

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...5702390&page=1

Didn't see it. Thanks for awaring me.

Monogamy is true for some species. I don't think it's natural for humans, still, even with genes. The only way monogamy really continues in its presence form, I think, is because of religion.

Arbex · 06-14-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghengisconor

Didn't see it. Thanks for awaring me.

Monogamy is true for some species. I don't think it's natural for humans, still, even with genes. The only way monogamy really continues in its presence form, I think, is because of religion.

That's what I think too.

We can look at chimps, for starters.

I don't think there's much monogamy for them (maybe not at all? not completely aware.)

Oh, and btw, that reminded me of what Dawkins said in his book "The Selfish Gene."

How genes lay down the rules and behaviors for us but they do not control us directly (and this is what you and I agree with...the reason why people get married is mostly because of learned behavior.)

VAPlowhorse · 06-14-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Monogamy has been present in civilizations predating and completely separated from Christian influence. The commonality that monogamy did not apply to the rulers and the rich is also present. Logic fails, monogamy is secular as well as religious.

Gabriel Anton · 06-14-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

oh bull ****

People have been getting married the world ever for millennia before that jew was born

BahadurShah · 06-14-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irezumi

Atheists base their morals on logic and common sense (at least I do). You don't need Christianity or religion in general to know that sticking to one person (when you're in a committed relationship) is considered a mark of a good person.

Why? Because you feel like it is? That doesn't sound very "rational" to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

On one level, that makes sense. In most cases, and especially with humans, not every male in a polygynous species can be polygynous; only the most 'alpha' males keep and attain multiple mates. I'm guessing that those who were predisposed toward monogyny genetically were also the least alpha.

However, the study is flawed, because there was no data obtained as to whether the men remained faithful to their wives or not.

Another flaw I meant to point out in this study is that it only studies whether men can be committed; polygynous men are still committed, just to more than one woman

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAPlowhorse

Monogamy has been present in civilizations predating and completely separated from Christian influence. The commonality that monogamy did not apply to the rulers and the rich is also present. Logic fails, monogamy is secular as well as religious.

Yes, but I'm speaking of Western atheists specifically, whose perspectives tend to be more influenced by Western society, which is in turn heavily influenced by Christianity. Most civilizations that predate and are separate from Christian influence either were polygynous or had other religious beliefs (bolded so that Atheists know that it doesn't apply to them) that enforced monogyny on them. The wealthy and ruling class not having monogyny apply to them only further underscores my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel Anton

oh bull ****

People have been getting married the world ever for millennia before that jew was born

Uh.. yeah, and often to more than one woman.

kingtego · 06-14-2009, 08:27 PM

Perhaps people like to dedicate their lives to one person in the hopes of building a deeper relationship?

hooked4life · 06-14-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

o rly?

VAPlowhorse · 06-14-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Yes, but I'm speaking of Western atheists specifically, whose perspectives tend to be more influenced by Western society, which is in turn heavily influenced by Christianity. Most civilizations that predate and are separate from Christian influence either were polygynous or had other religious beliefs (bolded so that Atheists know that it doesn't apply to them) that enforced monogyny on them. The wealthy and ruling class not having monogyny apply to them only further underscores my point.

No it doesn't, it shows that monogamy and polygamy are functions of wealth and social norms. Males and females are born in relatively equal numbers, making monogamy practical to avoid massive unrest. Those that could afford to live above of societies judgment tended to do whatever the hell they wanted. Christianity has no claim to monogamy, it came long afterward and simply enforced the system already upheld by previous religions and cultures. No one can really speak to what marriage was originally because it predates cultural history. Western atheist do as western culture does, religion is just an established enforcement system.

BahadurShah · 06-14-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingtego

Perhaps people like to dedicate their lives to one person in the hopes of building a deeper relationship?

That's an emotionalist argument. Sexual exclusivity is hardly required for the purpose of building a deep relationship with someone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooked4life

o rly?

Yes rly (see clarifying comments).

HMFIC_BROWSIN · 06-14-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbex

Monogamy gene found in people

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...5702390&page=1

I don't need to take that test to know that hsit is not in my DNA...

hooked4life · 06-14-2009, 08:35 PM

^^^

Not to mention that societies completely divorced from contact with Christian lands developed very similar household structures.

It just makes good sense to have people pair off like that.

BahadurShah · 06-14-2009, 08:37 PM

What it seems like from the replies in this thread thus far is that the Atheists of RP are comfortable lampooning religion & questioning the existence of God, but not comfortable questioning the basis and validity of societal mores and norms, even if they *gasp* contradict science/only exist in their society as a result of religion.

BahadurShah · 06-14-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooked4life

^^^

Not to mention that societies completely divorced from contact with Christian lands developed very similar household structures.

It just makes good sense to have people pair off like that.

Can you name some of these societies?

RatherBeLifting · 06-14-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

Are there any of you out there?

If so, why do you consider monogyny an ideal?

I know a lot of atheist guys who are married and consider sticking with one woman to be a mark of a "good person." But why? This belief comes directly from Christianity.

Atheists like to talk about science; from a scientific perspective, human males are definitely not evolved to be monogynous.

It does not come from Christianity, it comes from morality and culture. I love my wife, why would I want to hurt her by laying with other women?