Forced fatherhood

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 09:19 AM

In situations where a couple discusses beforehand (before having sex) that neither one of them are ready for a child, or want a child. If birthcontrol fails and the woman changes her mind and decides to conceive, what responsiblity does the man have? If the guy still does not want to be a father should he be forced to pay child support? The woman made a decision to go forth and have a baby knowing full well the father wants nothing to do with it.

Keep in mind that things are different if you reverse the situation. If birthcontrol fails and the woman decides she does not want to have the baby, the man cannot force her to have it regardless.

A woman cannot be forced to have a baby against her will or to take responsibility for a baby against her will (women can just drop off a baby at a save haven and be done with it). You can agrue that once a child is brought into this world he has a responsibility to provide for it. However, the child was brought into the world against his will and the woman decided to give birth to a fatherless child.

What rights do you think men should have in regards to fatherhood?

skier_ · 06-17-2009, 09:21 AM

I think a paternity test.

If the guy doesn't want to be involved he shouldn't have to be. But he should have no control over if she gets and abortion or not.

**janky** · 06-17-2009, 09:22 AM

I'm in this thread..

and I aint reading shiit

lol

lol

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by skier_

I think a paternity test.

If the guy doesn't want to be involved he shouldn't have to be. But he should have no control over if she gets and abortion or not.

Well, in this case he's not denying the baby is his. He's just saying that they agreed as a couple beforehand that they were not going to be parents. She changes her mind after birthcontrol fails, should he still be forced to take responsibility for the child?

I agree that it should always be the woman's choice whether or not she has an abortion. But shouldn't she have to consider whether or not her child will have a caring father? If she takes it into consideration that her child's father does not want to be involved and she still decides to have the kid, should she have full responsbility for raising that child without support from the biological father?

skier_ · 06-17-2009, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Indestructible.

Well, in this case he's not denying the baby is his. He's just saying that they agreed as a couple beforehand that they were not going to be parents. She changes her mind after birthcontrol fails, should he still be forced to take responsibility for the child?

I agree that it should always be the woman's choice whether or not she has an abortion. But shouldn't she have to consider whether or not her child will have a caring father? If she takes it into consideration that her child's father does not want to be involved and she still decides to have the kid, should she have full responsbility for raising that child without support from the biological father?

If he doesn't want to be involved he shouldn't have to be, it might only make things worse for the child.

**manletdingo** · 06-17-2009, 09:30 AM

he should file for full custody,child support,food stamps,sec 8 housing,as many single parent welfare programs as he can.....how does she like dem apples..

**Frozen_By_You** · 06-17-2009, 10:05 AM

I would like to see something called a "male abortion" or "legal abortion" which would be a legal and official document that would state the final and irrevocable termination of rights and/or responsabilities (legally and financially), towards the child from the father.

That would mean the right for the biological genitor to put "unknown father" on the birth certificate and the right/responsability to remain completely anonymous, even after the child's majority.

I'm not a jurist, so i don't know all the legal ramifications of a said document, nor the practical applications of it, but in my opinion it's a shame that it doesnt exist yet. There's african-american's rights, GLBT's rights and women's rights, where are the men's rights?

Quite a slap in the face, if you ask me.

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Indestructible.

Well, in this case he's not denying the baby is his. He's just saying that they agreed as a couple beforehand that they were not going to be parents. She changes her mind after birthcontrol fails, should he still be forced to take responsibility for the child?

I agree that it should always be the woman's choice whether or not she has an abortion. But shouldn't she have to consider whether or not her child will have a caring father? If she takes it into consideration that her child's father does not want to be involved and she still decides to have the kid, should she have full responsbility for raising that child without support from the biological father?

This is coming from a father

If a guy has a child with a girl, rather it be on purpose or accident. He needs to help raise that child and if he doesnt he is a piece of **** in my eyes. Yeah you two(girl and guy) made an agreement that u guys didnt want kids but what does that have to do with this child? The child did nothing to you, so why are you going to punish the child? Its like like he/she had a choice in the matter.

So lets punish an innocent child by not being a father because the girl got pregnant. Not only is that immature but ignorant as hell.

Originally Posted by skier_

If he doesn't want to be involved he shouldn't have to be, it might only make things worse for the child.

STFU I just lost tons of respect for you

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by fibraz-life

the father does not have to legally care for the child ("be there")

but legally, if that father has a job, even if its working at mcdonalds making 7000 dollars a year (5000 after taxes), the mother has every legal right to sue the father for child support and the government + police will force the father to go to court (or be taken to jail) and the father will actually have to pay 1000 dollars a year or the wife can legally sue to have his wages garnished

by legal code, a father must give a portion of his money in child support. the wife has every right to sue. and according to legal system the mother will win rights to the child + support 99% of the time by default

Right, but you're not stating whether or not you agree with that. Why should a father have to pay child support for a kid that was brought into this world against his will?

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Frozen_By_You

I would like to see something called a "male abortion" or "legal abortion" which would be a legal and official document that would state the final and irrevocable termination of rights and/or responsabilities (legally and financially), towards the child from the father.

That would mean the right for the biological genitor to put "unknown father" on the birth certificate and the right/responsability to remain completely anonymous, even after the child's majority.

I'm not a jurist, so i don't know all the legal ramifications of a said document, nor the practical applications of it, but in my opinion it's a shame that it doesnt exist yet. There's african-american's rights, GLBT's rights and women's rights, where are the men's rights?

Quite a slap in the face, if you ask me.

So men could just go run around getting random women pregnant and then making them have an abortion(which can lead to the woman never being able to get pregnant again). If the girl chooses to have the father remain annoymous then it will stay that way.

Where are the mens rights? Are you serious bro? and are you comparing the rights of african-americans to wanna be rights of piece of crap men who have unprotected sex then dont want anything to do with a child

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

This is coming from a father

If a guy has a child with a girl, rather it be on purpose or accident. He needs to help raise that child and if he doesnt he is a piece of **** in my eyes. Yeah you two(girl and guy) made an agreement that u guys didnt want kids but what does that have to do with this child? The child did nothing to you, so why are you going to punish the child? Its like like he/she had a choice in the matter.

So lets punish an innocent child by not being a father because the girl got pregnant. Not only is that immature but ignorant as hell.

STFU I just lost tons of respect for you

Ok bro, it's not about the father wanting to "punish" the child by not supporting it. He never wanted the child to be brought into this world in the first place! The mother knows that yet decides to have the child anway. So think about that, the mother has decided to birth a fatherless child. Ok, now that the child is born the mother may realize that she can't support it on her own so now she sues the man for child support. Do you see anything wrong with that?

How ca you say the father is punishing the child by not being involved but you don't view the mother as punishing the child by bringing it into this world knowing he/she will not have a loving, caring, supporting father?

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Indestructible.

Right, but you're not stating whether or not you agree with that. Why should a father have to pay child support for a kid that was brought into this world against his will?

Against his will be if the girl takes a guys sperm from a condom, freezes it then gets pregnant from it.

You as a human has a choice rather to have protected sex or not. If you choose unprotected sex with the girl, than that is your fault nobody made you have unprotected sex with the girl. If you dont want kids PERIOD in your life, then I wouldnt just trust a girl on BC to not get pregnant

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by fibraz-life

i agree with it. i hate all these poor douchebags havin sex and making children left and right with no punishment. at least this financially is a punishment.

he may not want the child but he had sex

Thank you!

Repped!

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

So men could just go run around getting random women pregnant and then making them have an abortion(which can lead to the woman never being able to get pregnant again). If the girl chooses to have the father remain annoymous then it will stay that way.

Where are the mens rights? Are you serious bro? and are you comparing the rights of african-americans to wanna be rights of piece of crap men who have unprotected sex then dont want anything to do with a child

You didn't even read his post. He did not suggest that the woman be forced to have an abortion.

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by fibraz-life

i believe he was saying he wants a legal code where a man can get a legal document that removes him from all legal bindings to a child (including paying child support against his will). that can be a "male abortion"

its not forcing the female to have an abortion. its making the female no longer legally able to force the male to pay child support

Then he doesnt know what hes talking about

Its called "SIGNING OVER YOUR PARENTAL RIGHTS" been around for YEARS

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by fibraz-life

i agree with it. i hate all these poor douchebags havin sex and making children left and right with no punishment. at least this financially is a punishment.

he may not want the child but he had sex

Who are these douchebags having sex with? Who are they making children left and right with? They're having sex with women who are also only fukking for the enjoyment, not to be parents. But if she decided to be a parent, why is he then forced to support her decision?

Everything you just said means nothing if the woman decides she doesn't want the child! If they have sex and she gets pregnant, what if he's really excited about having a baby and wants to raise it even if she wants nothing to do with it. She can still just abort it and tell him to go fukk off! So women have the right to turn down responsibility but men do not!

**qcomer** · 06-17-2009, 10:17 AM

Birth Control states that its not 100% effective and its not guaranteed.

Condoms also state that they are not 100% or guaranteed.

Why anyone would assume the outcome is not their responsibility and they shouldnt have to deal with it? I have no idea.

So, If you still decide to play with fate and roll the dice, that means youre aware of the circumstances and are ready to man up for whatever happens.

skier_ · 06-17-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

STFU I just lost tons of respect for you

How so? I'm using the only real example of this I know, but my friend's dad did not want to be in her life at all, he has paid child support because he HAS to, but he is resentful of the whole situation and he has been a straight up dick since she was about 3. Now that she is 18 he doesn't talk to her at all.

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Indestructible.

Who are these douchebags having sex with? Who are they making children left and right with? They're having sex with women who are also only fukking for the enjoyment, not to be parents. But if she decided to be a parent, why is he then forced to support her decision?

Everything you just said means nothing if the woman decides she doesn't want the child! If they have sex and she gets pregnant, what if he's really excited about having a baby and wants to raise it even if she wants nothing to do with it. She can still just abort it and tell him to go fukk off! So women have the right to turn down responsibility but men do not!

Actually he can go get a court order for her not to have an abortion

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by skier_

How so? I'm using the only real example of this I know, but my friend's dad did not want to be in her life at all, he has paid child support because he HAS to, but he is resentful of the whole situation and he has been a straight up dick since she was about 3. Now that she is 18 he doesn't talk to her at all.

and what good has come out of that situation?

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

Against his will be if the girl takes a guys sperm from a condom, freezes it then gets pregnant from it.

You as a human has a choice rather to have protected sex or not. If you choose unprotected sex with the girl, than that is your fault nobody made you have unprotected sex with the girl. If you dont want kids PERIOD in your life, then I wouldnt just trust a girl on BC to not get pregnant

If a couple makes a decision as a COUPLE they do not want kids, if BC fails and she gets preggo then the decision they made as a COUPLE should still stand! If she changes her mind (she has the right to do so) she should be capable of raising the child on her own.

skier_ · 06-17-2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

and what good has come out of that situation?

None, he was forced to be in her life and it would have been better for her if he had just been out like he wanted, made it clear the whole time it was because he had to.

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by fibraz-life

but the female can still reject that, and force a man to pay child support against his will

any man who has a child by a female can be legally forced by the mother and legal system to pay child support. there is nothing he can do to stop it if the female knows what she is doing

theres TWO ways to stop paying child support.

1.) be unemployed and make no money

2.) move to a different state and be very hard to track down

Now we are getting into the "IF" things. he said plain and simple that men have no rights, and I am showing him that they do, and you can get a judge to order over the signing of parental rights. been there done that

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

Actually he can go get a court order for her not to have an abortion

No he can't.

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Indestructible.

No he can't.

Ok bro, you obviously do not know what your talking about. It can be done, a lengthy and cost worthy process but it can be done

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by skier_

None, he was forced to be in her life and it would have been better for her if he had just been out like he wanted, made it clear the whole time it was because he had to.

How was he forced to be in her life?

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by qcomer

Birth Control states that its not 100% effective and its not guaranteed.

Condoms also state that they are not 100% or guaranteed.

Why anyone would assume the outcome is not their responsibility and they shouldnt have to deal with it? I have no idea.

So, If you still decide to play with fate and roll the dice, that means youre aware of the circumstances and are ready to man up for whatever happens.

Ok, but only men have to "man up". Because the woman has the ulimate power to "opt out". No matter what happens, the woman cannot be forced to take responsibility for ANYTHING. Nobody has a problem with that! Everyone only has a problem if a man doesn't want to take responsonsibility regardless of whether or not he said he didn't want to beforehand.

skier_ · 06-17-2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

How was he forced to be in her life?

Money wise, and he resented it. I'm not saying more guys wouldn't step up and end up enjoying fatherhood. But I just think if he wants nothing to do with it and the woman wants to keep the baby, it might end up being better for the child to just have mom

**DoubtErased** · 06-17-2009, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by skier_

Money wise, and he resented it. I'm not saying more guys wouldn't step up and end up enjoying fatherhood. But I just think if he wants nothing to do with it and the woman wants to keep the baby, it might end up being better for the child to just have mom

So he resented having to pay for a child? Thats fine so why did he even talk to the child? Nobody forced him to be there for the child besides having a monetary obligation

**6-SPEED** · 06-17-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by DJ-DuvalFLA

Ok bro, you obviously do not know what your talking about. It can be done, a lengthy and cost worthy process but it can be done

I've never heard of it happening and I'm damn sure it's not common.

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