Diabetic nutrition question

[OHIOSTEVE]

My buddy just called me and told me what happened to him today.
He is diabetic and a diabetic nutritionist told him today that he should only eat 3 ounces of meat a day. I asked how she recommended he get the balance of his protein and he said she told him THAT WAS ALL A MAN NEEDS! I told him he HAD to be mistaken and he claims he questioned her and she got very irritated and insisted she was right and that was all the protein he needs a day. I asked if she meant RED meat and again he claims to have ask her that and again she became indignant that he questioned her. I asked him how she recommended he get enogh calories in and according to him she didn't, just kept on about not eating meat.
I think he HAS to be mistaken but he swears he went over it THREE times to be sure of what she was saying.

[thruxton]

Originally Posted by OHIOSTEVE

My buddy just called me and told me what happened to him today.
He is diabetic and a diabetic nutritionist told him today that he should only eat 3 ounces of meat a day.

HAHA! i would have fallen out of my consultation chair... and then, of course, fired her ass

[blastertech70]

Not sure of her reasoning, good protein don't carry carbs, the limit would be startch,fruits and milk.

Don't worry, I'm an electrician and my ex-wife still explains to me that if an appliance is plugged in it is using electricity regardless of if it is on or off. LMAO

Sometimes it's easier to be kind then right...LMAO

[DaddyR]

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/articl...0012281eac____

Provides an interesting alternative view. Dieticians all have their own particular theories that they like to promote. The above article was a very interesting read, IMO. Shows that the current "diet" recommended by the ADA is designed to perpetuate diabetes and keep people dependent on prescription drugs.

Believe what you want to believe, but it seems obvious that the no meat recommendation is total nonsense, and after reading that article I am thinking perhaps the old conventional wisdom about limiting carbs is the best advice to take.

[Gr3g_Lycan]

"Nutritionist" does not mean registered dietitian.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/2/321S
"On the basis of these data, the American Diabetes Association (ADA), which had previously recommended that 12-20% of energy in the diabetic diet should come from protein (~1.0-1.8 g protein/kg of adult body weight), noted in 1986 that Americans in general consume too much protein and advised diabetic adults to reduce their protein intake to 0.8 g/(kg?d)."

So for an average 80kg man, 0.8*80=64g to 1.8*8.0=144.
ie the American diabetes association recommends 64g to 144g protein.

Red meat is 20% protein, so the American Diabetes Association recommends 320g to 720g red meat (if that is you protein source). 3oz red meat is 75g, so your "nutritionist" is an idiot.

Thats why I refuse to see anybody regarding nutrition, I have had too much time dealing with idiots.

[micro wave]

Originally Posted by OHIOSTEVE

My buddy just called me and told me what happened to him today.
He is diabetic and a diabetic nutritionist told him today that he should only eat 3 ounces of meat a day. I asked how she recommended he get the balance of his protein and he said she told him THAT WAS ALL A MAN NEEDS! I told him he HAD to be mistaken and he claims he questioned her and she got very irritated and insisted she was right and that was all the protein he needs a day. I asked if she meant RED meat and again he claims to have ask her that and again she became indignant that he questioned her. I asked him how she recommended he get enogh calories in and according to him she didn't, just kept on about not eating meat.
I think he HAS to be mistaken but he swears he went over it THREE times to be sure of what she was saying.

lol, another vegetarian pushing their religion. I would have laughed and walked out. Gave me a new sig idea though.

"Diabetic and surviving meat" however, that doesn't sound so good....

[JOHN GARGANI]

Originally Posted by micro wave

lol, another vegetarian pushing their religion. I would have laughed and walked out. Gave me a new sig idea though.

"Diabetic and surviving meat" however, that doesn't sound so good....

EXACTLY! you can sniff this one out a mile away....she has an AGENDA.....

a diabetic having only 3 ounces of meat a day is going to end up eating a TRUCKLOAD of carbs.....

[OHIOSTEVE]

This was a dietician / nutritionist. My buddy has a lot of health issues. I told him my opinion and he agreed the woman was nuts. I explained that he needs a certain caloric level and eliminating protein means the calories have to come from either fat or carbs and being diabetic he needs to limit carbs soooooo. I think it will make no difference as he is the most self destructive person I know but I just thought you guys would appreciate the lunacy.

[phil b]

Just look at the physiques of these morons in the healthcare field, doctors, dieticians or otherwise, then look at the great physiques of people on these boards, young or old, male or female, those who subscribe to the 1-1.5 grams per pound guidelines, and that should be more than enough evidence to convince you of what is the right answer.

[Gr3g_Lycan]

Originally Posted by phil b

Just look at the physiques of these morons in the healthcare field, doctors, dieticians or otherwise, then look at the great physiques of people on these boards, young or old, male or female, those who subscribe to the 1-1.5 grams per pound guidelines, and that should be more than enough evidence to convince you of what is the right answer.

About 80% of registered dietitians are female, and I would say 100% are naturally thin. They dont know hard it can be if you are overweight, they just like to preach dogma rather than science. The "big carb" companies like Kellogs & even McDonalds sponsor the dietitians associations, they are in bed with the devil.

[micro wave]

Originally Posted by Gr3g_Lycan

About 80% of registered dietitians are female, and I would say 100% are naturally thin. They dont know hard it can be if you are overweight, they just like to preach dogma rather than science. The "big carb" companies like Kellogs & even McDonalds sponsor the dietitians associations, they are in bed with the devil.

I dont know, I see a lot of overweight RD's. Makes you think, "Yeah I'll do that, seems to be working for you..."

[thunderchild]

OK. I am a diebetic. My doctor has me on a diet that is basically the Atkins diet. No I don't eat alot of fat and butter. However, I eat lean chicken, beef, fish and lamb (my favorite). The trick is to eat a large quantity of green and raw vegtables with every meal. NO potatoes, white rice, sugar, bread and low alcohol. He say's I can have a belt or 2 from time to time (every 2 weeks). So I have my sugar levels under control. If I were your friend, I would find another doctor ASAP!!

[DaddyR]

Originally Posted by thunderchild

OK. I am a diebetic. My doctor has me on a diet that is basically the Atkins diet. No I don't eat alot of fat and butter. However, I eat lean chicken, beef, fish and lamb (my favorite). The trick is to eat a large quantity of green and raw vegtables with every meal. NO potatoes, white rice, sugar, bread and low alcohol. He say's I can have a belt or 2 from time to time (every 2 weeks). So I have my sugar levels under control. If I were your friend, I would find another doctor ASAP!!

IMO your doctor is on the right track. Kudos to him for bucking the trend and intentionally ignoring the pro-drug industry ADA advice to just eat your carbs and take your drugs like a good little peon.

[thunderchild]

Originally Posted by DaddyR

IMO your doctor is on the right track. Kudos to him for bucking the trend and intentionally ignoring the pro-drug industry ADA advice to just eat your carbs and take your drugs like a good little peon.

Yeah it was a blessing finding him. He keeps me off most carbs, especially processed carbs. His words to me, and I quote:

"if it has the "OSE" in it, stay away from it. Fructose, glucose etc, etc...

It has kept my reading so low I was beginning to wonder if he was wrong about me being diabetic!! But when I get off of it like... say... having some pizza, I can see the level climb until I get it down again with some exercise and proper diet. People don't believe that you can eat good food on this diet but I can tell you, I love to cook and the GRILL is your best friend!!

mmmmmmmmm.....

Oh I forgot... I am no longer on D meds!! He took me off awhile ago. I see him every 6 weeks to make sure I won't need them again but I have been doing good so NO MORE MEDS!!!!

[Hey-Iwas51]

Originally Posted by thunderchild

OK. I am a diebetic. My doctor has me on a diet that is basically the Atkins diet. No I don't eat alot of fat and butter. However, I eat lean chicken, beef, fish and lamb (my favorite). The trick is to eat a large quantity of green and raw vegtables with every meal. NO potatoes, white rice, sugar, bread and low alcohol. He say's I can have a belt or 2 from time to time (every 2 weeks). So I have my sugar levels under control. If I were your friend, I would find another doctor ASAP!!

My diabetic wife follows the same "nearly Atkins" diet... that is, when she is not cheating...

She is an RN, and is a diabetic case manager.

Dan

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by DaddyR

Shows that the current "diet" recommended by the ADA is designed to perpetuate diabetes and keep people dependent on prescription drugs.

The ADA is now cautiously advising diabetics to consider lowering carb intake. Of course they can't come right out and say that the very thing they've been saying to eat turns into the very thing the diabetic can't handle, without lawsuits up the wazoo. Too many people have died from the complications of diabetes and the ADA recommended diet of 60% carbs.

[thunderchild]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

The ADA is now cautiously advising diabetics to consider lowering carb intake. Of course they can't come right out and say that the very thing they've been saying to eat turns into the very thing the diabetic can't handle, without lawsuits up the wazoo. Too many people have died from the complications of diabetes and the ADA recommended diet of 60% carbs.

60% carbs is crazy!!! Carbs are what you are supposed to cut back on. What are these people thinking??!! This stuff turns into glucose in your blood stream... urgo, SUGAR!!! I am glad I did not take the ADA's advice. I would be on the med's right now if I had!!

[Minotaur]

Yep, that's been their recommendation.

I'm insulin resistant, and following keto. I've been on metformin for a few years, but I usually forget to take it now. My blood sugar is sometimes in the 80s, usually the 90s. I'm going to stop the metformin completely for a week or so and check my blood sugar regularly (something else I'm not diligent about). If it remains as stable as it has been, "buh-bye metformin".

[RedMaster]

It depends on underlying issues your friend has. If he is experiencing any type of renal failure or issues greatly reducing his protein intake is the exact thing he needs. If he has no kidney problems I see no reason why his protein intake should be so limited.

[lauren921]

I saw a RD not too long ago, but she was not your typical RD; she was an athlete, weight lifter and CSCS. She did not recommend 60% carbs, but did suggest 40% carbs which is a bit higher than a lot of people on the forums consume, but it was nice to talk with someone who understood the needs of someone who exercises.

[RDFinders]

i am quite offended b/c i am a registered dietitian and we are not idiots like most have spouted here. i cannot imagine any RD saying a man only needs 3 oz of meat per day as a sole source of protein. not all dietitians specialize in bbing, but that does not mean we have no clue about nutrition as spend our lives studying and teaching the public about it. and most information that has could about with bbing nutrition has been built on nutrition programs recommended for diabetics. joslin and american diabetes association have plenty of RDs working for them, so if you are going to quote them, please do not make a blanket statement about all dietitians being idiots. some of us take our craft very seriously.

[RDFinders]

Originally Posted by thunderchild

60% carbs is crazy!!! Carbs are what you are supposed to cut back on. What are these people thinking??!! This stuff turns into glucose in your blood stream... urgo, SUGAR!!! I am glad I did not take the ADA's advice. I would be on the med's right now if I had!!

ADA, AACE or Joslin are not recommending 60%. Joslin is the lowest with 40-45%, but don't think that carbs are the only culprit to elevating serum insulin levels. it is really about timing and activity with diabetes.

[Gr3g_Lycan]

Originally Posted by thunderchild

OK. I am a diebetic. My doctor has me on a diet that is basically the Atkins diet. No I don't eat alot of fat and butter. However, I eat lean chicken, beef, fish and lamb (my favorite). The trick is to eat a large quantity of green and raw vegtables with every meal. NO potatoes, white rice, sugar, bread and low alcohol. He say's I can have a belt or 2 from time to time (every 2 weeks). So I have my sugar levels under control. If I were your friend, I would find another doctor ASAP!!

Sounds like excellent advice.

[KyleAaron]

Originally Posted by RDFinders

i am quite offended b/c i am a registered dietitian and we are not idiots like most have spouted here. i cannot imagine any RD saying a man only needs 3 oz of meat per day as a sole source of protein.

Well, we don't have the person's exact quote, but this is what the OP said,

Originally Posted by ohiosteve

He is diabetic and a diabetic nutritionist told him today that he should only eat 3 ounces of meat a day. I asked how she recommended he get the balance of his protein and he said she told him THAT WAS ALL A MAN NEEDS!

So it may be that the nutritionist was saying this was all the meat he needed, and that the balance of his protein could come from the rest of his diet. After all, a rice-cooker-cup of dry rice, 140g, will when cooked have some 9-10g protein. A handful of almonds some 20g protein. Porridge, 20g. A glass of milk, 8g. And so on.

I don't think we ought to put down what someone has said unless we actually hear what they say. At the moment we have the dietician saying something to a client who said something to his buddy who then posted it on the internet. Chinese whispers, and all that.

In forum discussions, I find it's pretty common for people to respond to what you've said but... they didn't respond to what you said, they scanned over it and misread it. And in forum discussions, we have the exact words we can go back and look at. You don't have that in a verbal conversation. So I would say it's very likely that the original guy misunderstood the dietician, that she was saying he didn't need more than 3oz meat daily so long as the rest of his diet was balanced.

Which you may or may not agree with, but you have to agree it's not as crazy as what everyone else is thinking the dietician said.

[thruxton]

Originally Posted by KyleAaron

....So I would say it's very likely that the original guy misunderstood the dietician, that she was saying he didn't need more than 3oz meat daily so long as the rest of his diet was balanced.

...you have to agree it's not as crazy as what everyone else is thinking the dietician said.

3oz is the serving size of half your palm. that's only 10g of complete protein, and you think the rest can be made up for with rice, almonds, and milk?

your argument about hearsay started strong but then you took a left turn down crazy street.

[thomasale]

Originally Posted by thunderchild

Yeah it was a blessing finding him. He keeps me off most carbs, especially processed carbs. His words to me, and I quote:

"if it has the "OSE" in it, stay away from it. Fructose, glucose etc, etc...

It has kept my reading so low I was beginning to wonder if he was wrong about me being diabetic!! But when I get off of it like... say... having some pizza, I can see the level climb until I get it down again with some exercise and proper diet. People don't believe that you can eat good food on this diet but I can tell you, I love to cook and the GRILL is your best friend!!

mmmmmmmmm.....

Oh I forgot... I am no longer on D meds!! He took me off awhile ago. I see him every 6 weeks to make sure I won't need them again but I have been doing good so NO MORE MEDS!!!!

I hope you mean 6 months...regular blood checks at home would point out any rises in sugar that can then be addressed with the doc.

My endocronologist is GREAT. Steers me away from processed carbs, stresses healthy fats and protein. He goes daily to my gym, he is in GREAT shape. He is diabetic! Type 1. I do what he says and my A1C is consistently 6 or less.

When I first started working out the trainer I had was a BIG vegetarian. She wanted me to use alot of Soy based products and very little good quality protein. I am glad I fired her. Your nutritionist is NOT for YOU...get another!

[jmac66]

With all due respect to the Nutritionist, who I'm sure has the patient's best interest at heart, I would never suggest that my diabetic patients adopt a nutrition plan where most of their calorie intake is from carbs, complex or not. And especially in someone who is exercising regularly and strenuously. The 3 oz's of meat for an adult male don't come close to being enough protein, and it would be very difficult (though not impossible) to make up the difference with vegetable sources. We of course don't know from the information given if the nutritionist discussed vegetable protein to add to the animal protein.

I've worked with diabetic specialists and have had great success with putting my patients on Southbeach, though I ask them to avoid phases one and two because they are too low carb in my opinion. The more even distribution of proper fats, complex carbs and proteins does wonders for their blood sugars and HgB A1C.

Of course as a medical provider I can't give any "official" medical advice over this or any other website. So I'd suggest your friend or anyone else that this discussion applies to seek the advice of his or her primary care provider and discuss this in depth...diet and exercise are the mainstay of treatment for diabetes, and a solid relationship between provider and patient is crucial to successful treatment.

[DaddyR]

Originally Posted by RDFinders

i am quite offended b/c i am a registered dietitian and we are not idiots like most have spouted here...

...please do not make a blanket statement about all dietitians being idiots. some of us take our craft very seriously.

If I offered offense please accept my apology. As in any profession, RDs are a mixed group. There are good ones and there are bad. It's definitely unfair to characterize them all as incompetent.

The need to limit carbs is just so basic to diabetes. Heck I learned about it from my grandmother who fought diabetes for decades. While I think it's important to note that carbs are not the only issue, they are obviously a big one, and I think recently perhaps the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the opposite direction these days, with some folks saying you can have more than may be good for some. The need for physical activity and weight control is very important, and not just for immediate control of blood glucose since adipose tissue is for many the main cause of insulin resistance.

[thunderchild]

Originally Posted by thomasale

I hope you mean 6 months...regular blood checks at home would point out any rises in sugar that can then be addressed with the doc.

My endocronologist is GREAT. Steers me away from processed carbs, stresses healthy fats and protein. He goes daily to my gym, he is in GREAT shape. He is diabetic! Type 1. I do what he says and my A1C is consistently 6 or less.

When I first started working out the trainer I had was a BIG vegetarian. She wanted me to use alot of Soy based products and very little good quality protein. I am glad I fired her. Your nutritionist is NOT for YOU...get another!

Oops... Mis-type! I meant 6 month's. I do have the blood test kit and check it every morning and evening. Low carbs is the way to go for me according to my doctor. After he put me on this diet, my sugar levels stayed in the normal range.

[thunderchild]

Originally Posted by Gr3g_Lycan

Sounds like excellent advice.

It has worked geat for me. Level blood sugar levels in the normal range for almost 2 years now!!