The Squat and Leg Press Debate

[Crusier]

I read here and notice at the gym that there is an on going debate between whether it is better to do squats or leg presses. Right now I just do squats, and being fairly new to lifting I may not know what I am talking about. Squats from everything I read and hear is the better lift for strength. Leg presses while can help with strength are great for building size. So instead of just doing one or another why not incorperate both in a routine. Maybe alot of people do and I just haven't noticed but to me it makes sense.

Correct me if I am wrong. I am still a newbie and learning.

[thomasale]

Use both.

[creb]

You can create a lot more tension using free weight squats (provided you squat deep). Leg press is much lower tension, so you have to do a lot more reps to make up the difference if that is even possible.

Strength is not an absolute quality either. To get stronger at squats, do squats; to get stronger at leg presses do leg presses.

Size comes from eating more food. You can hamper your size by doing too much work in the gym. You need to stimulate the muscle then go home and recover.

[halogenic]

I do both, plus Hack Squats and Leg Extensions. I can actually lift more weight with extensions than I can with squats.

[skiboy1955]

creb said it all and the best thing is eating for recovery.

Each person has his or her preference in leg development, mine is squats since I powerlifting. If you do bodybuilding then leg press. There are other supplemental lifts too but these 2 are the basics.
Each has its benefits and and disadvantages.
Squats has definitely helped me in my leg size and glutes and hams have increased a lot.

[kathyfit]

I do both, plus Hack Squats and Leg Extensions. I can actually lift more weight with extensions than I can with squats.

What? That's crazy!

[halogenic]

What? That's crazy!

I've almost maxed out the leg extension machine at 150kg. It doesn't go any higher that. So I guess squats will eventually catch up. But I find with squats I'm limited, not so much by how much my legs can lift, but how much weight you can carry on your shoulders.

[beancntr]

I just did leg presses for the longest time when I first started lifting as I was scared to do squats since I have a bad knee. Then after educating myself with a lot of research, I decided to give squats a try. Now after about 2 months, I love squats (no ill effects on the knee if i make sure to go deep). I think they work my legs (and my whole body for that matter) much better than leg presses.

However, 2 weeks ago I actually started doing leg presses again after I do my squats. Totally kicked my a*s. So I'm a proponent of doing both.

[snoack]

I do both. I keep my rep rang around 10 because I have enough mass, just after the burn and the endurance at this point.

Currently, with the way my current program is structured, my leg presses are out pacing my squats by 100+ pounds.

[Mark1T]

If there is a debate on which exercise is better, it is an ignorant debate. Both exercises are very good. But, they are different. For me, I periodize on Squats, and when I feel I cannot progress anymore, I switch to the Leg Press for a progressive period.

To stick with one exercise for the rest of your life, when there are other 'similar' but different movements, will limit your overall development. The main reason is because when you reach your maximum reps with your maximum weight, how are you going to progress further?

[kemar7856]

I do both but I find squats so much harder

[halogenic]

I'm only squatting 240 but leg pressing 700 pound, which seems like a big difference. I've been stuck 700 for awhile now and gone from extreme dread and lots of groaning to doing it comfortably and ready to push ahead, ultimately aiming for 800, hopefully before the end of this year. I was looking at the leg press machine earlier this week, working through my leg routine, thinking "that evil bit$h is next", but it wasn't such a big deal.

Hack squats which I've only been doing for a few months are around the 440 mark.

[bodyhard]

I do both, plus Hack Squats and Leg Extensions. I can actually lift more weight with extensions than I can with squats.

You must have one weak ass squat man. I never EVER heard of anyone anyone having a stronger leg extension than squat.

[ironwill2008]

I can actually lift more weight with extensions than I can with squats.

While I realize that machines vary from one to the other in their loads, it's highly unusual to be able to lift more with leg extensions than you can squat . But if your training is producing the results you seek, then continue to march.

[Dave76]

I'm only squatting 240 but leg pressing 700 pound, which seems like a big difference...

It's not as big of a discrepancy as you think. Consider that when you squat, you have to lift your entire body weight. Add your 200 lb body weight to the 240 lb squat and it's 440 lbs.

If the leg press is at a 45 degree angle, you're only having to lift about 70% of that 700 lbs, or about 490 lbs.

Considering that you have to stabilize the squat, those numbers are close. My math is rough but you get the idea.

[ironwill2008]

It's not as big of a discrepancy as you think. Consider that when you squat, you have to lift your entire body weight. Add your 200 lb body weight to the 240 lb squat and it's 440 lbs.

If the leg press is at a 45 degree angle, you're only having to lift about 70% of that 700 lbs, or about 490 lbs.

Considering that you have to stabilize the squat, those numbers are close. My math is rough but you get the idea.

^^^I'd figure it at about the same.

[Tallgntlmn]

I never EVER heard of anyone anyone having a stronger leg extension than squat.

I couldgo for reps with 295 (machine max) on extensions. That's just 20lbs lighter than my 5th squat set. But I'm about shot after squats, SLDL, leg press and lying leg press to even want to go that high.

I always figured LP was a higher weight than squats. I think I am just under double squat weight on LP.

[Marius_Ursus]

I read here and notice at the gym that there is an on going debate between whether it is better to do squats or leg presses. Right now I just do squats, and being fairly new to lifting I may not know what I am talking about. Squats from everything I read and hear is the better lift for strength. Leg presses while can help with strength are great for building size. So instead of just doing one or another why not incorperate both in a routine. Maybe alot of people do and I just haven't noticed but to me it makes sense.

Correct me if I am wrong. I am still a newbie and learning.

Your answer will depend on your specific goals for training. I have no use for leg presses, but some people use them for producing a more aesthetic physique as aesthetics are defined in pro bodybuilding.

[jdtemple]

I do both. If I had to give up one, I'd give up leg press.

[fredarn]

If you wan't strength that you can use other places then the gym (for example in sports..) then there is no debate - Squat beats Leg press by a mile...

[Tallgntlmn]

leg press IS NOT squat strength, especially when you take into account that most people you see on the leg press that have low squat numbers generally use an extremely limited ROM...

leg press's from my experience is just a tool to pad the ego for someone who's really not willing to put some weight on their shoulders and do some real work in the rack...

The quote I was referring to was regarding leg extensions, not leg press.

You're probably right about the tool to pad the ego. I've seen what you speak of. Guys packing the LP with weight and only squatting 250, if that.

I love squats, but now I am getting to the point where they are getting heavy. I am not sure how much further I want to take it really. I am thinking 350 might have to be a point where I may not go higher for safety reasons.

[thomasale]

The quote I was referring to was regarding leg extensions, not leg press.

You're probably right about the tool to pad the ego. I've seen what you speak of. Guys packing the LP with weight and only squatting 250, if that.

I love squats, but now I am getting to the point where they are getting heavy. I am not sure how much further I want to take it really. I am thinking 350 might have to be a point where I may not go higher for safety reasons.

That is exactly where I am and bellieve me I think about that often...

[Coach_P]

The quote I was referring to was regarding leg extensions, not leg press.

You're probably right about the tool to pad the ego. I've seen what you speak of. Guys packing the LP with weight and only squatting 250, if that.

I love squats, but now I am getting to the point where they are getting heavy. I am not sure how much further I want to take it really. I am thinking 350 might have to be a point where I may not go higher for safety reasons.

Don't give up on squats because they get heavy. Practice dropping the bar. The hardest part about squatting is the fear that it will fall on you. If you're using a squat rack (a fair assumption, I would add), then practice drops the next time you're in there. Then when you need to push yourself, and you fail in the rep, you'll have a better idea how to deal with it.

Put some weight on the bar, squat down, start up and let it go as you step ahead and up away from the bar. That's what squat racks are for.

I NEVER use a spotter when I squat. I think that a guy directly behind me when I have 500 lbs on my back is more likely to get hurt. I only have help when, after I finish a rep, to help me walk back to the rack.

[mikieson]

Both are needed to have all around good workouts...BUT...to me, having a bad back, IF I had a legpress...I would only use it and drop squats.

I dont care how well you perform squats if you have a bad back its just not good to have a lot of weight on your shoulders..

[1968SS396]

leg press IS NOT squat strength, especially when you take into account that most people you see on the leg press that have low squat numbers generally use an extremely limited ROM...

leg press's from my experience is just a tool to pad the ego for someone who's really not willing to put some weight on their shoulders and do some real work in the rack...

i like how you think.

I dont get it, I can watch a guy do almost a thousand pounds on the leg press.........

Then he cant even go ATG with 225..........

I call it the EGO press and I dont touch the thing.

[Do_Somethin]

I've almost maxed out the leg extension machine at 150kg. It doesn't go any higher that. So I guess squats will eventually catch up. But I find with squats I'm limited, not so much by how much my legs can lift, but how much weight you can carry on your shoulders.

When you max out the machine do the extensions unilaterally.

[flatlinePL]

do both... but rotate them. if you have been doing the squat heavy for a while and your feeling a little beat up, rotate the leg press in and give your back a break.

[KyleAaron]

My feeling is that free weights used by a healthy person with good form are better than machines in every case. That's because you recruit so many supporting muscles, develop your balance and so on. Also, machines usually have a dead-straight range of motion, whereas the human body naturally moves in arcs.

If you want to think of the practical application of your strength, digging holes, lifting boxes, throwing balls, tackling other sports players, lifting up kids, moving furniture for cleaning, massaging your spouse and that sort of thing, when you do that you won't have a neat straight groove in a machine to help you, you'll have to rely on your own balance and control; for that, free weights are better training.

However, not all of us have perfect health, we sometimes have things making the free weights harder. For example, I have a slight lumbar scoliosis. That was okay when I was 21 but of course it's worsened over the years - so putting an extra strain on my lower back won't help. That means squats and deadlifts are out, leg presses, chins, DB rows and the like are in. Other people might have shoulder or knee trouble from past sports injuries, and so on. So there'll be certain health things that take us away from free weights, either while we're recovering from some injury or long-term.

Good form is actually pretty rare in most gyms, in my experience. The back is bent round during squats and deadlifts, benches are done with the feet in the air so the person has no base of support, barbell curls are done by swaying the back, and so on. A person with crappy form is likely to injure themselves with free weights. So either they should get good form, or if they are a typical young male and refuse to listen to good advice, they should use machine instead.

It's true that we can get stuck with an exercise. But there are a lot of other free weight exercises we can go to rather than some machine. We can of course do both free weights and machines, but unless bodybuilding's our profession, most of us have to choose, we don't have three hour workouts where we can do everything.

[boathead]

It's not as big of a discrepancy as you think. Consider that when you squat, you have to lift your entire body weight. Add your 200 lb body weight to the 240 lb squat and it's 440 lbs.

If the leg press is at a 45 degree angle, you're only having to lift about 70% of that 700 lbs, or about 490 lbs.

Considering that you have to stabilize the squat, those numbers are close. My math is rough but you get the idea.

not as rough as you think. the vertical component on a 45 degree leg press is .707 (the cosine of 45) x weight.

i've been alternating between squat and leg press. my squats seem to hit hamstrings, glutes, and inner thigh more. about 3 or 4 days later, i hit the leg press, with much lower weight with feet low and close on the platform to isolate quads a bit. squats don't seem to hit quads noticably for me (feet a bit wide, toes out at 30 degrees).

[Sackett]

It really depends on your goals. Squats are the king of all lifts and should be included in all routines but there is no harm in doing both.

Here are two options:

Leg workout once a week:

Barbell squats 5x5
Leg presses 3x10-12
Walking lunges 3X50 feet
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 3X8-10 reps
Seated calf raises 4X10 reps

Leg workout twice a week:

Monday:
3x5 Squat
Walking lunges 3X50 feet
3x8-10 Stiff-Leg Dead Lift


Thursday:
3x5 Front Squats
1x5 Dead Lifts
3x8-12 Leg Press