16 y/o reccomended TRT

eXeCuTe · 06-02-2009, 06:26 PM

I saw my endocrinologist today for a checkup. I've lost about 100 pounds since the last time I had seen her, and was seeing her because I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes which has since subsided.
She has a hypothesis that I am suffering from hypogonadism and delayed puberty considering my testosterone levels have never truly spiked as they should have (may have to do with my previous obesity), which blood tests are on their way to confirm or deny.

If I was to accept the therapy of 100mg testosterone enthanate / week, would I have to remain on it for the rest of my life, or could I stop after results are seen and my growth plates are closed.

hardasnails1973 · 06-02-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXeCuTe

I saw my endocrinologist today for a checkup. I've lost about 100 pounds since the last time I had seen her, and was seeing her because I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes which has since subsided.
She has a hypothesis that I am suffering from hypogonadism and delayed puberty considering my testosterone levels have never truly spiked as they should have (may have to do with my previous obesity), which blood tests are on their way to confirm or deny.

If I was to accept the therapy of 100mg testosterone enthanate / week, would I have to remain on it for the rest of my life, or could I stop after results are seen and my growth plates are closed.

16 years old and giving testosterone is absurb unless you are primary. Losing your weight and also looking at your estrodial levels as they may be elevated. If they are elevated then your body will stop production of testosterone so given an AI or armidex in this case all might be needed. If obesity is a problem then high e2 is most likely the culprit. Why did you become obesse was there any depression associated with this? If so then proper nutrition and counseling as well as properly balancing the hormone with out TRT. I had a client do the same thing at the age of 12 stopped 50 mgs of testosterone for 6 month then cold turkey stopped it and now 21 years old and has total T of 200.. With proper nutritional intervention and also back filling the missing gaps with nutrients his was able to get up to 600. If the dr was trained in TRT she would do a clomid challenge to see if you respond ..If you do then try clomid for 8 weeks then stop see if you start..If not use HCG if you are not primary (clomid test will rule this out)..honestly i would lookf for second opinon on this. If you want one and are in the north eastern usa pm me and i be glad to assist you the best i can..

BJE · 06-02-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

If obesity is a problem then high e2 is most likely the culprit.

What E2 level would you consider high?

jeff3kids · 06-02-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXeCuTe

I saw my endocrinologist today for a checkup. I've lost about 100 pounds since the last time I had seen her, and was seeing her because I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes which has since subsided.
She has a hypothesis that I am suffering from hypogonadism and delayed puberty considering my testosterone levels have never truly spiked as they should have (may have to do with my previous obesity), which blood tests are on their way to confirm or deny.

If I was to accept the therapy of 100mg testosterone enthanate / week, would I have to remain on it for the rest of my life, or could I stop after results are seen and my growth plates are closed.

Thousand's of young men go through the exact protocol your Dr has prescribed for the very same reason. Almost all are able to stop and produce their own testosterone after treatment.

eXeCuTe · 06-02-2009, 08:36 PM

Obesity isnt the problem anymore, it just was when I was 272 now. I'm a healthy 178-180 w/ 12% BF right now. I'm 17 in July and my growth plates confirm that my bone age is also 17, which puts me under the assumption I don't have long until my growth plates close and puberty is long gone.
Thank you for the assurance Jeff, do you agree with the dosage?

hardasnails1973 · 06-02-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXeCuTe

Obesity isnt the problem anymore, it just was when I was 272 now. I'm a healthy 178-180 w/ 12% BF right now. I'm 17 in July and my growth plates confirm that my bone age is also 17, which puts me under the assumption I don't have long until my growth plates close and puberty is long gone.
Thank you for the assurance Jeff, do you agree with the dosage?

Get second opinon
Rule out primary vs secondary hypogonadism
Why give T when their own nuts work makes no sense and in long run can be more harm then good.? Think about it.

BRH · 06-03-2009, 02:05 AM

If you are primary (IE: your nuts don't work) then you have no choice anyway - at which point you will be grateful to have a doctor actually willing to prescribe T to such a young guy.

Having said that, starting out TRT without first finding out if your own body can be prompted into producing T naturally is crazy.

**ratmonkey** · 06-03-2009, 05:32 AM

exhaust all other options before taking testosterone, it is a sentence for life.

eXeCuTe · 06-03-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmonkey

exhaust all other options before taking testosterone, it is a sentence for life.

Other options you reccomend I push for?

**ratmonkey** · 06-03-2009, 05:57 AM

restart for one. clomid, nolvadex, hcg...etc.
get all the blood tests you can done, full blood, thyroid, liver, hormone panels. i mean everything. get them done at different times of the day and redo them after a couple weeks to see if there are any changes.

hopping on trt at any age under 30 unless primary is very irresponsible. and any doc that will do it is a quack and an *******...

user23960508710889 · 06-03-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmonkey

exhaust all other options before taking testosterone, it is a sentence for life.

All hormone replacement therapies are a life sentence.

Just like most illnesses, you get treated until you die.

hardasnails1973 · 06-03-2009, 07:34 AM

These guys are basically reinforcing everything I have already mentioned. If there is pitutary damage this needs to be investigated. Being over weight for so long could have lowered your thyroid and stressed other hormone in your system. Losing weight is great but it may have not been enough to balance out your hormones. An endo suggesting TRT to 16 year old with out further investigation to primary or secondary could be risking putting their medical licensce at risk. With in 7 days your endo could have their answer for what steps to take next. Give how unhealthy lifestyle, and prediabetic state would put your body into a starvation state where as body fat goes up so do demands for one minerals. The greater your body fat the more demand for nutrients as the body fat is now recognized as an organ.
When several mineral tests are run on indivudals that are obese even taking a multivitamin is not enough to cover their needs as they find out in lab results. This can be easily proven by fatter people are more likely to be vitamin D deficient and have to take large dosages of this vitamin in order for blood levels to rise. Has your endo even checked your vitamin D levels ? Most do not look into the cause of things and just use bandaid methods hoping that they correct them selve over time.

pmgamer18 · 06-03-2009, 09:03 AM

Read the AACE Guildlines and try an HCG or Clomid Stim. test.
http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

If your levels go up and your Estradiol is not to high best range is 10 to 30 most feel there best at 20. But this depends on where your SHBG is if low you need to keep your Estradiol lower then 20 I have an SHBG of 20 and try to keep my estradiol at 15.

Read this link don't go on T shots if the Stim. test bring up your levels use Clomid or HCG. Going on T shots will shut down your HPTA and It's dam hard to get you started again. I don't feel your Endo knows what he is doing any good Endo up on your problems would not put you on testosterone with out trying to find out if your Primary or Secondary.

hardasnails1973 · 06-03-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Read the AACE Guildlines and try an HCG or Clomid Stim. test.
http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

If your levels go up and your Estradiol is not to high best range is 10 to 30 most feel there best at 20. But this depends on where your SHBG is if low you need to keep your Estradiol lower then 20 I have an SHBG of 20 and try to keep my estradiol at 15.

Read this link don't go on T shots if the Stim. test bring up your levels use Clomid or HCG. Going on T shots will shut down your HPTA and It's dam hard to get you started again. I don't feel your Endo knows what he is doing any good Endo up on your problems would not put you on testosterone with out trying to find out if your Primary or Secondary.

Sad point is that over 90% of the endos would condemn is young guy to TRT when it is not necessary. This is why when I hear about young guys we get 19 and 20 years old on TRT when taken off TRT for 2-3 weeks When properly assessed as secondary or elevated e2 levels clogging up the receptors or in this case most likely being insulin resistant causes nutrients to become depleted resulting in hormonal imbalnaces because they do not have the proper building blocks to make it. TRT is a bandaid method in this case and thyroid and potential adrenals could also be out of balance adding more insult to injury. Checking DHEa, ft3,ft4, total t3, total t4, cortisol am, cortisol salvia 24 hours 4 point, shbg, e2 - sensitive would be the proper steps to take. Losing 100 lbs in great but how much was it muscle vs fat and water?

pmgamer18 · 06-03-2009, 09:56 AM

Yes this is so true but one needs to start with labs first finding out what the problem is then way. So as a good Dr. goes through the right tests he sould do what your saying. Most will not do them all at once. They go in stages and some are not any dam good they find one low on T and put them on TRT. Doing this makes it dam hard to find out why one is low in the first place. Keep posting what your doing I feel you are doing a great job you know a hell of a lot more then I do and have even helped me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

Sad point is that over 90% of the endos would condemn is young guy to TRT when it is not necessary. This is why when I hear about young guys we get 19 and 20 years old on TRT when taken off TRT for 2-3 weeks When properly assessed as secondary or elevated e2 levels clogging up the receptors or in this case most likely being insulin resistant causes nutrients to become depleted resulting in hormonal imbalnaces because they do not have the proper building blocks to make it. TRT is a bandaid method in this case and thyroid and potential adrenals could also be out of balance adding more insult to injury. Checking DHEa, ft3,ft4, total t3, total t4, cortisol am, cortisol salvia 24 hours 4 point, shbg, e2 - sensitive would be the proper steps to take. Losing 100 lbs in great but how much was it muscle vs fat and water?

eXeCuTe · 06-03-2009, 02:19 PM

Thank you everyone for the helpful responses I'm going to assemble a sheet of questions to ask the endocrinologist regarding this, using the information I've been provided here and from what I've read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

Sad point is that over 90% of the endos would condemn is young guy to TRT when it is not necessary. This is why when I hear about young guys we get 19 and 20 years old on TRT when taken off TRT for 2-3 weeks When properly assessed as secondary or elevated e2 levels clogging up the receptors or in this case most likely being insulin resistant causes nutrients to become depleted resulting in hormonal imbalnaces because they do not have the proper building blocks to make it. TRT is a bandaid method in this case and thyroid and potential adrenals could also be out of balance adding more insult to injury. Checking DHEa, ft3,ft4, total t3, total t4, cortisol am, cortisol salvia 24 hours 4 point, shbg, e2 - sensitive would be the proper steps to take. Losing 100 lbs in great but how much was it muscle vs fat and water?

I started at 272 42% Bodyfat at 15 years old. I'm now 180 roughly 12% bodyfat, so I lost about 90 pounds of fat and gained a pound of lean muscle. Also my lifts have nearly tripled. I wonder if having normal test levels would have made this easier, then I figure I really wouldnt have wanted it to be easier considering the discipline and dedication the whole experience has taught me.

hardasnails1973 · 06-03-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXeCuTe

Thank you everyone for the helpful responses I'm going to assemble a sheet of questions to ask the endocrinologist regarding this, using the information I've been provided here and from what I've read.

I started at 272 42% Bodyfat at 15 years old. I'm now 180 roughly 12% bodyfat, so I lost about 90 pounds of fat and gained a pound of lean muscle. Also my lifts have nearly tripled. I wonder if having normal test levels would have made this easier, then I figure I really wouldnt have wanted it to be easier considering the discipline and dedication the whole experience has taught me.

Lets not worry about what if, but rather what the situation is now. Numerous people send me last 3 years of labs ..I tell them I need to focus on the here and now. I just need to know what happened at that time with in 3-6 months.

Here are the questions that I ask them to prepare as well as filling out a questionaire of 158 questions
1) need bio - page of when this started what symptoms you were expereicing at the onset.
2) current lab test. last 3-6 months
3) supplement and med list
4) any current history of aliments
5) your current diet, workout,
6) list of what you want to accomplish
7) Prepare your list of questions
8) have your past jobs been around any toxic substances?
9) average usage of cell phones
10) Do you sleep with computer or TV, cell phone on near you in your room ( had several cases of EMF interrupting sleep, hormone, neurotransmitters production in people )
Removing the computer, cellphone, from bed room alleviated sleep problems as well as need for sleeping medications ..

Simple things like these need to be addressed.

Men are having their mid life crisis at average age of 19-25

jinxy285 · 06-03-2009, 04:23 PM

I know nothing about this subject except a common sense opinion... alot of you are suggesting a restart for this guy... I think the Dr believes as does he that he never actually started, producing adult levels of T, and this is a method to "trick" the body into producing on its own...it is the inverse of what happens to us old TRT guys... body senses high levels of T and then when it gets low it will attempt to put it back at that level... I suspected my son of delayed puberty and i believe this is the treatment course they suggested to jump start T production....

I really think you posted in the wrong forum... this is not a TRT situation as I dont think your Dr expects you to be on this for life... unfortunatly, you have gotten the cookie cutter warning every young guy gets on this forum becuase everyone thinks everyone is the same... as do many Drs unfortunalty... I do however agree that before you do anything get a second opinion... and get a second opinion from a Dr you find on your on... if your endo recomends another endo, you can pretty well figure the 2nd opnion will be very much like the 1st and you could just save your co pay and do what the first Dr said... hope that makes sense and good luck...

jeff3kids · 06-03-2009, 07:19 PM

eXeCuTe, I believe this closely describes what you've said your Dr would like to do. Sorry about the delay, I had to go do stuff in real life.

Testosterone Treatment in Adolescents with Delayed Puberty: Changes in Body Composition, Protein, Fat, and Glucose Metabolism1

Link to clinical study:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...urcetype=HWCIT

hardasnails1973 · 06-03-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff3kids

eXeCuTe, I believe this closely describes what you've said your Dr would like to do. Sorry about the delay, I had to go do stuff in real life.

Testosterone Treatment in Adolescents with Delayed Puberty: Changes in Body Composition, Protein, Fat, and Glucose Metabolism1

Link to clinical study:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...urcetype=HWCIT

The problem was solved short term but where are their levels after 6 months to a year stopping the T?

There was never a follow up. Once he stops the T he goes back to baseline and he is still hypogonadal for rest of his life? Where as if he was given clomid challege to see if he primary or secondary he could potentially have good test levels while maintaining natural production on his own for rest of his life. If he is primary thats a different story, but why shut down him down when there is no need to risking possible testicular damage. Studies look great on paper until you see the residual effects walking into the dr's office several years later complaining of not feeling well.

Supercows · 06-03-2009, 08:06 PM

so a moderate/low dosage of test boosters can combat delayed puberty?

hardasnails1973 · 06-03-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercows

so a moderate/low dosage of test boosters can combat delayed puberty?

In this kids case their needs to be medical intervention, but has to properly approach so he does not have any testicular damage or left with low T levels because he be left dry when ever they would stop treatment. For god sake he just had insulin resistance which causes exterme inflammation to the body as well as mess up the signal to produce testosterones. It is a known fact that insulin resistance lowers testosterone by altering the communication in the HPTA.

jeff3kids · 06-03-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercows

so a moderate/low dosage of test boosters can combat delayed puberty?

According to the highly respected endojournels, a low dose testosterone protocol is effective. In addition, the majority treated produce normal levels of testosterone after treatment, however I prefer someone else preform the search for that study. I can tell you that I have read it.

Dr's have been doing this successfully for decades.

Obviously, the gent with 20000+ hours of research who is in a PHD program hasn't heard of it. Don't be bothered by that, it is of no consequence.

Supercows · 06-03-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

In this kids case their needs to be medical intervention, but has to properly approach so he does not have any testicular damage or left with low T levels because he be left dry when ever they would stop treatment. For god sake he just had insulin resistance which causes exterme inflammation to the body as well as mess up the signal to produce testosterones. It is a known fact that insulin resistance lowers testosterone by altering the communication in the HPTA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff3kids

According to the highly respected endojournels, a low dose testosterone protocol is effective. In addition, the majority treated produce normal levels of testosterone after treatment, however I prefer someone else preform the search for that study. I can tell you that I have read it.

Dr's have been doing this successfully for decades.

Obviously, the gent with 20000+ hours of research who is in a PHD program hasn't heard of it. Don't be bothered by that, it is of no consequence.

So this would mean that if someone his age with naturally high testosterone levels would be at greater risk for side effects had that person consumed a test booster for even a short period of time?

jeff3kids · 06-04-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercows

So this would mean that if someone his age with naturally high testosterone levels would be at greater risk for side effects had that person consumed a test booster for even a short period of time?

I haven't seen a study that confirms or denies your statement, so this is pure speculation. If the high test young male has growth plates that have not sealed, then I guess it would be possible for them to close early. Having said that, I don't know enough about 17 year old's taking test boosters to be intelligent about it. I have read that guys that age are sometimes hypergonadal, so I'm not of extra damage.

eXeCuTe · 07-05-2009, 08:59 PM

Test results show that my test levels are 31 ng/dl which pretty much confirms delayed puberty over hypogonadism. Doctor is reccomending Testosterone treatment for ten weeks. What should I try to get prescribed?

hardasnails1973 · 07-05-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXeCuTe

Test results show that my test levels are 31 ng/dl which pretty much confirms delayed puberty over hypogonadism. Doctor is reccomending Testosterone treatment for ten weeks. What should I try to get prescribed?

I had patient that had the same thing happen that they put him on testosterone when he was 14 at 200 mgs a week for 6 months then they retested his level and said that he was fine. Now at the at of 21 his testosterone levels where at 191. With proper lifestyle changes, giving the body building blocks it needed (fats in right ratios) and nutrients to help the body make it on its own I was able to get it up to 500 with out any interventions. The next step was to add clomid at 25 mgs EOD. This resulted in T levels of being in 800 and he was feeling good. After 8 weeks on clomid he is holding at 650-700 average with good e2. No TRT needed at all and hes back to his normal levels. Your dr needs to look at your thyroid and cortisol levels as well before moving on to TRT.