Settled on this 4-day split: Adequate for "getting in shape"?

[Babylon1023]

Both my wife and I will follow this routine. Goals are simple: lose weight, increase CNS strength, enhance everyday function and stability, "get in shape". We are both on caloric deficits so building muscle, for now, is NOT a goal due to this handicap. Again, we are not bodybuilding or competing. Because of this I'll make the assumption that hitting each muscle with 1 exercise per week will be adequate, and the time saved will be better spent with cardio to get bodyfat down.

OK, here we go:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: 45-50 minutes cardio only
Tuesday: Chest (Flat BB Bench Press) / Biceps (Dumbbell Curls) / Cardio
Wedesday: Rest
Thursday: Upper Back (Lat Pulldown, Wide Grip Cable Row) / Triceps (Rope Pushdown) / Cardio
Friday: Shoulders (DB Press) / Abs (Weighted Crunch, Planks) / Cardio
Saturday: BB Deadlift, Back Extensions, Leg Press, Calf Raises (on leg press), Leg Curls / NO cardio

Since the last thread I brought up didn't suggest there was any real strategic pairing of muscle groups, I put them in groupings based on where clusters of gym equipment is located. If there is a good reason to do certain exercises together (or not together) let me know so I can switch it up. Also if I should add a critical exercise or two to make this more "well rounded" let me know. Otherwise, any opinions on how this looks for our goals?

[romans535]

Both my wife and I will follow this routine. Goals are simple: lose weight, increase CNS strength, enhance everyday function and stability, "get in shape". We are both on caloric deficits so building muscle, for now, is NOT a goal due to this handicap. Again, we are not bodybuilding or competing. Because of this I'll make the assumption that hitting each muscle with 1 exercise per week will be adequate, and the time saved will be better spent with cardio to get bodyfat down.

OK, here we go:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: 45-50 minutes cardio only
Tuesday: Chest (Flat BB Bench Press) / Biceps (Dumbbell Curls) / Cardio
Wedesday: Rest
Thursday: Upper Back (Lat Pulldown, Wide Grip Cable Row) / Triceps (Rope Pushdown) / Cardio
Friday: Shoulders (DB Press) / Abs (Weighted Crunch, Planks) / Cardio
Saturday: BB Deadlift, Back Extensions, Leg Press, Leg Extensions, Leg Curls / NO cardio

Since the last thread I brought up didn't suggest there was any real strategic pairing of muscle groups, I put them in groupings based on where clusters of gym equipment is located. If there is a good reason to do certain exercises together (or not together) let me know so I can switch it up. Also if I should add a critical exercise or two to make this more "well rounded" let me know. Otherwise, any opinions on how this looks for our goals?

looks good, only one thing Legs and back on the same day IMO would be too much. Why don't you split Mondays cardio to say like 25min with legs and on Saturday do 25min cardio followed by back. I think this my benifit you more, Good luck

[Babylon1023]

looks good, only one thing Legs and back on the same day IMO would be too much. Why don't you split Mondays cardio to say like 25min with legs and on Saturday do 25min cardio followed by back. I think this my benifit you more, Good luck

I used to do all those with a 2 day split, (and at one point on a full body day), so it doesn't seem like too much to me. If it is then I can rearrange it. I personally cannot put in more than 60 minutes total gym time during the week so that's why M-F workouts are so minimal. On the weekend I can go full bore with legs and skip cardio b/c legs won't want anything to do with it that day.

Actually now that I'm looking at it, can the leg extensions be cut out since I'm doing deads and leg presses? Enough hamstring stimulation there? Also should I bother with calf exercises or are they being stimulated enough with what I'm doing?

[Babylon1023]

Version 2 now up. Leg extensions out, calf raises in. I figured if my but is in the leg press, why not do calf raises right there?

BTW - If you're wondering why squats are absent, it's because I strained my back 3 weeks ago and I don't want to attempt them again until I strengthen my lower back with extensions and deads. Also wifey is not comfortable with them yet.

[Babylon1023]

Just bumpin it before I go to work. Workout starts tomorrow so I'm trying to get as much input as possible so I get off on the right foot. Thanks!

[romans535]

Version 2 now up. Leg extensions out, calf raises in. I figured if my but is in the leg press, why not do calf raises right there?

BTW - If you're wondering why squats are absent, it's because I strained my back 3 weeks ago and I don't want to attempt them again until I strengthen my lower back with extensions and deads. Also wifey is not comfortable with them yet.

Why dont you after every leg press set also due calves with the same weight, IMO the leg press machine is one of the best and safest way to work out your calves.

Opps never mind you had already thought of the calves with the leg press machine, besides that how about dumbbell squats they work great specially on the quads. Goos luck

[-Lucifer]

That's my routine lol.

Looks good to me.

[Babylon1023]

Thanks. The only concern I had is that on the leg press I don't think there's a way to get the heels to flex below the toes like traditional calf machines, or is the downward part not as important?

Also, how's that routine working for you Dark Lucifer? Good to know somebody else is doing something similar and I didn't completely pull it out of my ass.

Keep the opinions coming!

[-Lucifer]

Also, how's that routine working for you Dark Lucifer? Good to know somebody else is doing something similar and I didn't completely pull it out of my ass.

I'm happy with it so far but only started doing it 7 days ago. It's my new one. Of course, mine has more sets than yours but it's the same body parts each day.

Mon: Back(9) + Tricep(5) + Forearms(4) + Cardio
Tue: OFF
Wed: Shoulder(11) + Forearms(4) + Abs(4) + Cardio
Thu: OFF
Fri: Chest(7) + Bicep(5) + Forearms(4) + Abs(4) + Cardio
Sat: Legs(8) + Calves(4)
Sun: OFF

[Babylon1023]

I'm happy with it so far but only started doing it 7 days ago. It's my new one. Of course, mine has more sets than yours but it's the same body parts each day.

But you're bulking so those extra sets will pay off, right? I realize I'm on a bodybuilding site but there's not much info as the differences between lifting on a deep cut (when building muscle just doesn't happen to any significant degree) and lifting to bulk.

[-Lucifer]

But you're bulking so those extra sets will pay off, right? I realize I'm on a bodybuilding site but there's not much info as the differences between lifting on a deep cut (when building muscle just doesn't happen to any significant degree) and lifting to bulk.

Your lifting does not change while cutting. The only thing that changes is your diet and cardio. So, you will be eating fewer calories ~ 500 and doing more cardio.

[Babylon1023]

Your lifting does not change while cutting. The only thing that changes is your diet and cardio. So, you will be eating fewer calories ~ 500 and doing more cardio.

I dunno, that doesn't make sense to me. If the muscle is not going to grow, what's the difference between hitting it with 3 sets per week vs 9 sets per week? As soon as I hit my CNS barrier that's that, and I'll be at this for many many months before I get to the point where I can attempt a bulk. For my wife, probably close to 2 years! Unless there's something I'm missing.

[Babylon1023]

Good Monday Morning!

Any thoughts on the above? It's one of those questions that's been nagging me since I started working out.

[drapstar]

Both my wife and I will follow this routine. Goals are simple: lose weight, increase CNS strength, enhance everyday function and stability, "get in shape". We are both on caloric deficits so building muscle, for now, is NOT a goal due to this handicap. Again, we are not bodybuilding or competing. Because of this I'll make the assumption that hitting each muscle with 1 exercise per week will be adequate, and the time saved will be better spent with cardio to get bodyfat down.

OK, here we go:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: 45-50 minutes cardio only
Tuesday: Chest (Flat BB Bench Press) / Biceps (Dumbbell Curls) / Cardio
Wedesday: Rest
Thursday: Upper Back (Lat Pulldown, Wide Grip Cable Row) / Triceps (Rope Pushdown) / Cardio
Friday: Shoulders (DB Press) / Abs (Weighted Crunch, Planks) / Cardio
Saturday: BB Deadlift, Back Extensions, Leg Press, Calf Raises (on leg press), Leg Curls / NO cardio

Since the last thread I brought up didn't suggest there was any real strategic pairing of muscle groups, I put them in groupings based on where clusters of gym equipment is located. If there is a good reason to do certain exercises together (or not together) let me know so I can switch it up. Also if I should add a critical exercise or two to make this more "well rounded" let me know. Otherwise, any opinions on how this looks for our goals?

I don't get your splits at all. Your not going to see any muscle mass gains on the program your working because your working related muscle groups on every lift day. Your working your triceps m-w-f. You need to stick more to push pull splits.

I would suggest a program more like this. Your muscles need rest to grow, which will aid in your overall fat loss goal.

Monday- Cardio
Tuesday - Chest, shoulders, tri's
Wednesday - Cardio
Thurday - Legs / cardio
Friday - Back / Bi's / abs / cardio
Saturday - Cardio
Sunday - Rest

Or if you want to add an extra day of lifting in a week eliminate a cardio only day an go to the next body part session. I have been working this routine since Jan 1st and have lost 35 lbs of fat and had significant strength gains. My bench went from 240 max up to 335.

[Babylon1023]

I don't get your splits at all. Your not going to see any muscle mass gains on the program your working because your working related muscle groups on every lift day. Your working your triceps m-w-f. You need to stick more to push pull splits.

I would suggest a program more like this. Your muscles need rest to grow, which will aid in your overall fat loss goal.

Monday- Cardio
Tuesday - Chest, shoulders, tri's
Wednesday - Cardio
Thurday - Legs / cardio
Friday - Back / Bi's / abs / cardio
Saturday - Cardio
Sunday - Rest

Or if you want to add an extra day of lifting in a week eliminate a cardio only day an go to the next body part session. I have been working this routine since Jan 1st and have lost 35 lbs of fat and had significant strength gains. My bench went from 240 max up to 335.

I was originally thinking push/pull was the recommended course of action but when I asked for suggested split programs a while back hardly anybody suggested that, but rather keeping exercises where a particular muscle was the main driver (say triceps for tricep pushdowns) away from exercises the muscle assists in (say triceps for chest presses). It was appealing to me because by time I got to bicep curls they were not at 100% due to their involvement in lat pulldowns and wide grip cable rows. However, if spacing them out like this means they won't recover properly then I'll go back to the drawing board and group them together.

[Babylon1023]

Possible Version 3:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: 45-50 minutes cardio only
Tuesday: PUSH I: Flat BB Bench Press, Incline DB Bench Press, Tricep Rope Pushdown / Cardio
Wedesday: Rest
Thursday: PULL I: Lat Pulldown, Wide Grip Cable Row, DB Bicep Curls / Cardio
Friday: DB Shoulder Press, DB Front Raise, Weighted Crunch, Planks / Cardio
Saturday: BB Deadlift, Back Extensions, Leg Press, Calf Raises (on leg press), Leg Curls / NO cardio

Does this look like a more effective pairing? Also does a shoulder press and a front raise work the shoulders enough, or should I ditch the press and go with front, lateral, and bent over rear delt raises?

[Babylon1023]

Possible Version 4:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: 45-50 minutes cardio only
Tuesday: PUSH I: Flat BB Bench Press, Incline DB Bench Press, Tricep Rope Pushdown / Cardio
Wedesday: Rest
Thursday: PULL I: Lat Pulldown, BB Rows, DB Bicep Curls / Cardio
Friday: DB Shoulder Press, DB Lateral Raise, Crunch + Planks to failure/ Cardio
Saturday: BW Back Extensions, BB Deadlift, BB Back Squats, DB Lunges, Lying Leg Curls / NO cardio

What's changed: Generally trying to work in more functional free weight compound exercises. Wide Grip Cable Rows/Leg Press/Seated-Weighted Back Extensions/Calf Raises OUT, BB Rows/Squats/BW Back Extensions/DB Lunges IN.

That kicks the machines and cables out of every "major" exercise except the lat pulldown. Kept the tricep pushdowns and lying leg curls in because I haven't found a free weight tricep exercise yet that I liked and/or felt hit my triceps hard enough, and my weak hammies could use a little curling assist. I also opted out of the seated back extension machine after reading how murderous it is for lower back discs. I'll go with this instead just to help it along with the other compounds:



Otherwise this seems to be evolving nicely. I'd love to hear some more feedback, especially if you think I need to add something in or take out something redundant.

EDIT: Forgot to write in that I ditched the front raises for lateral raises. Fixed.

[chazzy1864]

Can't reply at the moment, about to leave. But bookmarked so I can check it out later.

[Babylon1023]

Thanks man! Also current brain farts:

Tricep Cable Pushdown:
Should I keep them or force myself how to do skullcrushers or dips (both wifey and I may be a bit too weak and fat for the latter at this point)

Lying Leg Curls:
Should I even bother when I'm doing squats and deads?

DB Lunges:
Best functional assist for quads, or should I do step-ups or something different? Having a hard time getting form down on this one so I'd like to know if I should just stick with it until I get it right or consider something even "better".

Just to reiterate the goal is improving functional day-to-day task strength and health while stimulating our bodies enough to keep our LBM during our "tour de fat loss" over the next serveral months. No hypotrophy expected due to calorie cut, but CNS gains desired. Also must be compatible with n00bs in the learning phase trying to work up weight and get form down correctly in order to prevent injury. Do you see anything redundant or not beneficial given our situation?

[chazzy1864]

Thanks man! Also current brain farts:

Tricep Cable Pushdown:
Should I keep them or force myself how to do skullcrushers or dips (both wifey and I may be a bit too weak and fat for the latter at this point)

Lying Leg Curls:
Should I even bother when I'm doing squats and deads?

DB Lunges:
Best functional assist for quads, or should I do step-ups or something different? Having a hard time getting form down on this one so I'd like to know if I should just stick with it until I get it right or consider something even "better".

Just to reiterate the goal is improving functional day-to-day task strength and health while stimulating our bodies enough to keep our LBM during our "tour de fat loss" over the next serveral months. No hypotrophy expected due to calorie cut, but CNS gains desired. Also must be compatible with n00bs in the learning phase trying to work up weight and get form down correctly in order to prevent injury. Do you see anything redundant or not beneficial given our situation?

Tricep cable pressdowns are a great tri exercise. No erason to dump them fi you are enjoying them.

I'd keep lying leg curls if you have extensions, or your quad exercises outnumber your ham exercises. However if you are doing squats (either deep or wide stance), that will hit your glutes and hams quite well. Deadlifts hits them decently.

DB Lungse are a great exercise, but not required. Step ups are good as well. More glute involvement (generally) than lunges, unless you take very long steps on lunges. I personally like to do them both. They are fun to me.

[Babylon1023]

Thanks Chazzy! What do you think about the rest of the routine two posts up?

[Babylon1023]

Monday bumpage. You there Chazzy?

[Babylon1023]

Probable Version 5:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: 45-50 minutes cardio only
Tuesday: Flat BB Bench Press, Incline DB Bench Press, Assisted Dips (working to BW dips) / Cardio
Wedesday: Assisted Pull-Ups (working to BW PU's), BB Rows, DB Bicep Curls / Cardio
Thursday: Standing DB Shoulder Press, DB Lateral Raise, Woodchops, Crunch + Planks to failure/ Cardio
Friday: Rest
Saturday: BB Deadlift, BB Back Squats, DB Lunges, Lying Leg Curls / NO cardio

I think that just about finishes it, unless one particular exercise just "doesn't work" for me. I kept a few isolation assists in there for kicks, but otherwise have all the oft-skipped "must haves" covered. How's it look?

[chazzy1864]

Monday bumpage. You there Chazzy?

Sorry, with the search function not working right, I don't see a lot of threads I'm involved with, since my hours are opposite of most.

Version 4 seemed good, but leg day might be a bit much. But you've put out version 5. so let me read that.



Version 5 seems fine. I know you are trying to use as many compounds over isolations as possible. In that theme, I would say get rid of your lateral raises, and use wide grip upright row.

[Babylon1023]

Sorry, with the search function not working right, I don't see a lot of threads I'm involved with, since my hours are opposite of most.

Version 4 seemed good, but leg day might be a bit much. But you've put out version 5. so let me read that.



Version 5 seems fine. I know you are trying to use as many compounds over isolations as possible. In that theme, I would say get rid of your lateral raises, and use wide grip upright row.

I chose the raises because I've heard from several around here that high rows are semi-notorious for leading to shoulder problems. Could be broscience, but I dunno. Although I do have to say I felt a funny discomfort in my elbow joints while doing lateral raises as well, as if they were not meant to support a load from that angle. On that same note, do you think the leg curls are overkill with the other compounds? I kept them because it seemed the hams were playing as assists vs really getting worked directly (but then again I don't know if working hams directly should be a priority here since I'm working them for functionality and strength, not size). I gotta work on their flexibility too now that I think about it, but don't have much planned in that department apart from stretching at the moment.

[chazzy1864]

I chose the raises because I've heard from several around here that high rows are semi-notorious for leading to shoulder problems. Could be broscience, but I dunno. Although I do have to say I felt a funny discomfort in my elbow joints while doing lateral raises as well, as if they were not meant to support a load from that angle. On that same note, do you think the leg curls are overkill with the other compounds? I kept them because it seemed the hams were playing as assists vs really getting worked directly (but then again I don't know if working hams directly should be a priority here since I'm working them for functionality and strength, not size). I gotta work on their flexibility too now that I think about it, but don't have much planned in that department apart from stretching at the moment.

close grip upright rows, are what are known for RC issues. Wide grip, not so much. Close grip is mainly a trap exercise, while wide grip is a middle delt.

I was thinking your leg curls is overkill. Not sure of your lunge strides, or the width of your squats. But hamstrings will still get hit at least adequately with that exercise line up. If you take longer steps on lunges or a wide stance on squats, then they will be hit quite well.

[Babylon1023]

close grip upright rows, are what are known for RC issues. Wide grip, not so much. Close grip is mainly a trap exercise, while wide grip is a middle delt.

I was thinking your leg curls is overkill. Not sure of your lunge strides, or the width of your squats. But hamstrings will still get hit at least adequately with that exercise line up. If you take longer steps on lunges or a wide stance on squats, then they will be hit quite well.

Thanks for that, I'll give the WGURs a try next time I go. As for my lunge strides, I haven't perfected form yet but I'll aim to keep them as generally instructed having each leg form a 90* angle between knee and thigh with front thigh parallel and rear thigh perpendicular to the floor. As for squats, I'll have to see on that one. When I had a closer "just wider than shoulder width" stance, I tended to lean forward more with my knees going over my toes. I eventually took a wider stance with my thighs being at a near right angle to each other or 45* out from straight ahead. That seemed to bring the balance back as well as hit my glutes and hams more than my quads and I stuck with that for a few weeks before straining my lumbars and taking a hiatus. Now I'm going back to them starting light to get the form spot on before heading back to my old working weights, so I may go a tad narrower depending on how it affects my lower back rounding and balance. Still have some hamstring tightness issues that are playing against me there. Once again, thanks for the analysis.

[chazzy1864]

Thanks for that, I'll give the WGURs a try next time I go. As for my lunge strides, I haven't perfected form yet but I'll aim to keep them as generally instructed having each leg form a 90* angle between knee and thigh with front thigh parallel and rear thigh perpendicular to the floor. As for squats, I'll have to see on that one. When I had a closer "just wider than shoulder width" stance, I tended to lean forward more with my knees going over my toes. I eventually took a wider stance with my thighs being at a near right angle to each other or 45* out from straight ahead. That seemed to bring the balance back as well as hit my glutes and hams more than my quads and I stuck with that for a few weeks before straining my lumbars and taking a hiatus. Now I'm going back to them starting light to get the form spot on before heading back to my old working weights, so I may go a tad narrower depending on how it affects my lower back rounding and balance. Still have some hamstring tightness issues that are playing against me there. Once again, thanks for the analysis.

To find your natural squat stance. Once you're warmed up, do 3-4 unweighted jump squats. After the last one, look down, and see where your feet landed. That is where your body wants to naturally squat from. Generally it is just outside of shoulder width with toes pointed slightly out.

however you can change your stance based on your goals.

Also I'd suggest trying low bar and high bar squats. Some body types get better use out of different ones.

Most people use a low bar squat with a wide stance and a PL style squat (sit back), while those who use high bar tend to be closer with an Oly style squat (drop down).

I personally mix it up and found a wide stance squat with a high bar works best for me.

Also, do not worry about knees going past your toes. That isn't something to really worry about. The main thing is make sure your knees stay in line with your toes. If you sit back (pl style) then yeah, your knees shouldn't be traveling ahead. However if you drop down, there is a good chance your knees will go past toes. Also...what if you have short feet? You could be at a disadvantage.

[Babylon1023]

About the upright rows, I found some instruction on dumbbell upright rows (as opposed to the closer grip barbell rows I see sometimes) and it looks like it meets your parameters, and EXRX specifically mentions the problems with close grip and pointing elbows forward instead of keeping them straight out:



^ That it?

[chazzy1864]

Yeah, that is a wide grip upright row. You can use it with a barbell, or ez bar. Just whatever you prefer.