Do you have to carb up?

[wyntersmom]

I have no desire to carb up so I'm pretty much forcing it. I feel like its hindering my weight loss. Is it necessary to carb up? Are there different guidelines for women on keto? Also how long does it take to go into keto, do you go in and out around the carb up days or should you be staying in keto through those days? Sorry a lot of questions, I tried finding the answers before asking. Thanks.

[kornkulin]

Originally Posted by wyntersmom

I have no desire to carb up so I'm pretty much forcing it. I feel like its hindering my weight loss. Is it necessary to carb up? Are there different guidelines for women on keto? Also how long does it take to go into keto, do you go in and out around the carb up days or should you be staying in keto through those days? Sorry a lot of questions, I tried finding the answers before asking. Thanks.

Carbup days are ideal for those who want minimal muscle loss while still losing fat. If you don't care and want to lose as much weight as possible, don't do a carbup. Also, it takes roughly 2-3 days to get into keto, and I was wondering myself if you only get two or three keto days a week if you carbup since it kicks you out of keto and takes two to three days just to get into it.

[Facts1]

I don't understand why people do this. Ketosis means you are using fat and protein for energy instead of what it wants to use CHOs. Professional bodybuilders work hard to keep themselves out of ketosis. It is the easy way out and is very distructive to your body. It stresses your liver and actually lowers your metabolism for an extended period of time. For every pound of muscle you lose during your ketosis you will lose a total of 5 pounds (1lb of protein holds 4lb of water in the body). That's why people love the atkins diet. They think the pounds are just falling off. Just calculate your calories and monitor what you eat. There is no magic in a ketogenic diet. The diet was invented to starve the brain of energy so that epileptics would not have seziures but doctors have to monitor patients often because it is so damaging to the body.

Originally Posted by kornkulin

Carbup days are ideal for those who want minimal muscle loss while still losing fat. If you don't care and want to lose as much weight as possible, don't do a carbup. Also, it takes roughly 2-3 days to get into keto, and I was wondering myself if you only get two or three keto days a week if you carbup since it kicks you out of keto and takes two to three days just to get into it.

[kornkulin]

Originally Posted by Facts1

I don't understand why people do this. Ketosis means you are using fat and protein for energy instead of what it wants to use CHOs. Professional bodybuilders work hard to keep themselves out of ketosis. It is the easy way out and is very distructive to your body. It stresses your liver and actually lowers your metabolism for an extended period of time. For every pound of muscle you lose during your ketosis you will lose a total of 5 pounds (1lb of protein holds 4lb of water in the body). That's why people love the atkins diet. They think the pounds are just falling off. Just calculate your calories and monitor what you eat. There is no magic in a ketogenic diet. The diet was invented to starve the brain of energy so that epileptics would not have seziures but doctors have to monitor patients often because it is so damaging to the body.

Well there's people that are against it, like yourself, and their are people that believe in it because it has worked wonders for them.

[Buildinfortres]

Originally Posted by Facts1

I don't understand why people do this. Ketosis means you are using fat and protein for energy instead of what it wants to use CHOs. Professional bodybuilders work hard to keep themselves out of ketosis. It is the easy way out and is very distructive to your body. It stresses your liver and actually lowers your metabolism for an extended period of time. For every pound of muscle you lose during your ketosis you will lose a total of 5 pounds (1lb of protein holds 4lb of water in the body). That's why people love the atkins diet. They think the pounds are just falling off. Just calculate your calories and monitor what you eat. There is no magic in a ketogenic diet. The diet was invented to starve the brain of energy so that epileptics would not have seziures but doctors have to monitor patients often because it is so damaging to the body.

I take your point perfectly and actually kind agree but cutting with carbs is impossible for me, believe me I've tried almost everything, from different mixes of diets and cardio to carb cycle, fat burners, thyroid medicines, well almost everything and the ONLY thing that has worked for me effectively in a short period of time with success and minimal muscle loss is KETO. Thats why I NEED it on my cuts, I can't go below 11-12% BF without it.

I think everyone is different and what has worked for one person may not work for another.

[Facts1]

In the end it is always up to you to make your own choice. I went to college for dietetics and i still don't follow my own advice sometimes. Just know that it may hurt you in the long run. Your body was meant to run on carbs and fat and not protein. People in ketosis have decreased brain activity due to the fact the brain only runs on carbs not ketone bodies. If you are truly honestly in ketosis by definition you are burning that muscle you have worked for. I am just saying carbs are your friend and weight loss is all about total calories. Increasing cardio will actually do the same thing you are doing with ketosis with less damage. It will actually burn less muscle.

Originally Posted by Buildinfortres

I take your point perfectly and actually kind agree but cutting with carbs is impossible for me, believe me I've tried almost everything, from different mixes of diets and cardio to carb cycle, fat burners, thyroid medicines, well almost everything and the ONLY thing that has worked for me effectively in a short period of time with success and minimal muscle loss is KETO. Thats why I NEED it on my cuts, I can't go below 11-12% BF without it.

I think everyone is different and what has worked for one person may not work for another.

[benjaminclarke]

Carb ups are not necessary. If you are are able to workout effectively while on ketogenisis (with no carb up) then it is absolutely fine to do.

I personally do not carb up due to diabetes. I occasionally take carbs around workout time to compensate for this fact and keep my glycogen intact.

[Gishdream]

Originally Posted by Facts1

In the end it is always up to you to make your own choice. I went to college for dietetics and i still don't follow my own advice sometimes. Just know that it may hurt you in the long run. Your body was meant to run on carbs and fat and not protein. People in ketosis have decreased brain activity due to the fact the brain only runs on carbs not ketone bodies. If you are truly honestly in ketosis by definition you are burning that muscle you have worked for. I am just saying carbs are your friend and weight loss is all about total calories. Increasing cardio will actually do the same thing you are doing with ketosis with less damage. It will actually burn less muscle.

Cave men did ok for a few years on a keto type diet. They ate green veggies and meat out the ass. I am sure they had berries also but for the most part I don't think our bodies were necessarly meant to run on carbs. To each his own. Being overweight is just as big of a problem as anything keto will do to you.

[WorldStrike]

Then again, there's a good chance cavemen functioned on a a diet very similar to the warrior diet, and that's one that I really don't trust.

[Gishdream]

Originally Posted by WorldStrike

Then again, there's a good chance cavemen functioned on a a diet very similar to the warrior diet, and that's one that I really don't trust.

Humm... looking up Warrior diet.

[WorldStrike]

It's a pretty basic concept. Don't eat all day and then have one huge meal consisting of 2000-2500 calories in one sitting. I just don't trust it.

[wyntersmom]

We'll see what happens with no carb up.

[swimmer32]

Originally Posted by Facts1

In the end it is always up to you to make your own choice. I went to college for dietetics and i still don't follow my own advice sometimes. Just know that it may hurt you in the long run. Your body was meant to run on carbs and fat and not protein. People in ketosis have decreased brain activity due to the fact the brain only runs on carbs not ketone bodies. If you are truly honestly in ketosis by definition you are burning that muscle you have worked for. I am just saying carbs are your friend and weight loss is all about total calories. Increasing cardio will actually do the same thing you are doing with ketosis with less damage. It will actually burn less muscle.

The keto diet is meant to have your body run on fat........not protein as you said in your post. Many, many, many people will swear by the muscle sparing effects of the diet (myself included).

[skelooth]

Originally Posted by Facts1

I don't understand why people do this. Ketosis means you are using fat and protein for energy instead of what it wants to use CHOs. Professional bodybuilders work hard to keep themselves out of ketosis. It is the easy way out and is very distructive to your body. It stresses your liver and actually lowers your metabolism for an extended period of time. For every pound of muscle you lose during your ketosis you will lose a total of 5 pounds (1lb of protein holds 4lb of water in the body). That's why people love the atkins diet. They think the pounds are just falling off. Just calculate your calories and monitor what you eat. There is no magic in a ketogenic diet. The diet was invented to starve the brain of energy so that epileptics would not have seziures but doctors have to monitor patients often because it is so damaging to the body.

You don't understand, because you've never bothered to research anything or enlighten yourself. Buried for inaccuracy, negged for misleading.

[SophieM]

Originally Posted by skelooth

You don't understand, because you've never bothered to research anything or enlighten yourself. Buried for inaccuracy, negged for misleading.

To add on to this:

Ketone bodies are the preferred fuel of the heart, adrenal cortex, skeletal musculature and various parts of the brain; these tissues actually prefer to burn ketones, which conserves blood sugar (from refs in Eades & Eades, Protein Power, Bantam, 1998, p. 149)

Biochemically, ketones are the #1 preferred fuel of the following organs: the skeletal muscles, the heart, and the liver. (Cambridge International Institute for Medical Science)

I could post more references, but I think I made my point.

[weber25]

much thanks to the above post

[s.o.u.p]

Originally Posted by Facts1

I don't understand why people do this. Ketosis means you are using fat and protein for energy instead of what it wants to use CHOs. Professional bodybuilders work hard to keep themselves out of ketosis. It is the easy way out and is very distructive to your body. It stresses your liver and actually lowers your metabolism for an extended period of time. For every pound of muscle you lose during your ketosis you will lose a total of 5 pounds (1lb of protein holds 4lb of water in the body). That's why people love the atkins diet. They think the pounds are just falling off. Just calculate your calories and monitor what you eat. There is no magic in a ketogenic diet. The diet was invented to starve the brain of energy so that epileptics would not have seziures but doctors have to monitor patients often because it is so damaging to the body.

The body does not "want" to use carbs for energy, it's simply easier to break carbs down for energy than fats or protein, that's not neccessarily better, it's simply "the path of least resistance"

Professional bodybuilders do not "work hard" to keep out of ketosis, nobody has to do much to keep out of ketosis, just eat carbohydrates, also, many professional bodybuilders go carb free for many needs.

Ketosis is not an "easy way out" nor is it "destructive to the body" it is a natural metabolic state that ~given proper diet~ everybody enters into daily.

Ketosis does not stress the liver, nor dos it lower metabolism. This fact, as well as every fact you've claimed thus far is all derived from information gathered via starvation induced ketosis, dietary induced ketosis is safe, natural, and most importantly, healthy.

You do not lose "five pounds of water for every pound of muscle you lose during ketosis" you do not lose muscle in dietary induced ketosis, only starvation induced ketosis, and your information is still wrong, in that it's 5lb of water for every lb of glycogen stored in the muscle.

Ketosis does not "starve the brain of energy!" yes, there is a small area of the brain that only uses mitochondria for energy (as well as the inner layer of the kidneys) all other areas of the brain can run perfectly well (and in many cases better) from ketones and eventually directly from triglycerides.

We are a forum FULL of ketosis eaters, many of us for years, I myself will be coming into a year of eating under a ketosis style diet, and I have experienced nothing of what you are mentioning of this"bodily damage" you make mention of.

You are a fool.

Originally Posted by Facts1

In the end it is always up to you to make your own choice. I went to college for dietetics and i still don't follow my own advice sometimes. Just know that it may hurt you in the long run. Your body was meant to run on carbs and fat and not protein. People in ketosis have decreased brain activity due to the fact the brain only runs on carbs not ketone bodies. If you are truly honestly in ketosis by definition you are burning that muscle you have worked for. I am just saying carbs are your friend and weight loss is all about total calories. Increasing cardio will actually do the same thing you are doing with ketosis with less damage. It will actually burn less muscle.

The body does not run on protein in dietary induced ketosis.

The brain does not "run on carbs" as mentioned before..... and ketosis eaters do not have "lowered brain activity" you however might.

A proper ketosis diet will spare bodily muscle as the dietary intake is adequate for the needs of the person.

Carbs are not your friend, nor your enemy, they are a dietary element and need to be applied correctly, many ketosis eaters have tried other diets and they have not worked, ketosis diets are safe, effective and have many benefits over other diets.

Everything you've said is true of starvation induced ketosis, dietary induced ketosis is safe and effective, the mitochondrial areas of the body that you say require carbs actually don't, they require glycogen, the small amounts needed can be acquired through glycogenesis, as well as the cori and glucose~alanine cycles, 54% of the protein you eat and 10% of the fats are converted to glycogen, as well as the lactic acid from using muscles being converted back to glycogen aswell.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

[Jacob253]

Originally Posted by s.o.u.p

The body does not "want" to use carbs for energy, it's simply easier to break carbs down for energy than fats or protein, that's not neccessarily better, it's simply "the path of least resistance"

Professional bodybuilders do not "work hard" to keep out of ketosis, nobody has to do much to keep out of ketosis, just eat carbohydrates, also, many professional bodybuilders go carb free for many needs.

Ketosis is not an "easy way out" nor is it "destructive to the body" it is a natural metabolic state that ~given proper diet~ everybody enters into daily.

Ketosis does not stress the liver, nor dos it lower metabolism. This fact, as well as every fact you've claimed thus far is all derived from information gathered via starvation induced ketosis, dietary induced ketosis is safe, natural, and most importantly, healthy.

You do not lose "five pounds of water for every pound of muscle you lose during ketosis" you do not lose muscle in dietary induced ketosis, only starvation induced ketosis, and your information is still wrong, in that it's 5lb of water for every lb of glycogen stored in the muscle.

Ketosis does not "starve the brain of energy!" yes, there is a small area of the brain that only uses mitochondria for energy (as well as the inner layer of the kidneys) all other areas of the brain can run perfectly well (and in many cases better) from ketones and eventually directly from triglycerides.

We are a forum FULL of ketosis eaters, many of us for years, I myself will be coming into a year of eating under a ketosis style diet, and I have experienced nothing of what you are mentioning of this"bodily damage" you make mention of.

You are a fool.



The body does not run on protein in dietary induced ketosis.

The brain does not "run on carbs" as mentioned before..... and ketosis eaters do not have "lowered brain activity" you however might.

A proper ketosis diet will spare bodily muscle as the dietary intake is adequate for the needs of the person.

Carbs are not your friend, nor your enemy, they are a dietary element and need to be applied correctly, many ketosis eaters have tried other diets and they have not worked, ketosis diets are safe, effective and have many benefits over other diets.

Everything you've said is true of starvation induced ketosis, dietary induced ketosis is safe and effective, the mitochondrial areas of the body that you say require carbs actually don't, they require glycogen, the small amounts needed can be acquired through glycogenesis, as well as the cori and glucose~alanine cycles, 54% of the protein you eat and 10% of the fats are converted to glycogen, as well as the lactic acid from using muscles being converted back to glycogen aswell.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

Wow, I just started CKD and am more interested in it now more than ever.

[RoodyPooUS]

Originally Posted by s.o.u.p

The body does not "want" to use carbs for energy, it's simply easier to break carbs down for energy than fats or protein, that's not neccessarily better, it's simply "the path of least resistance"

Professional bodybuilders do not "work hard" to keep out of ketosis, nobody has to do much to keep out of ketosis, just eat carbohydrates, also, many professional bodybuilders go carb free for many needs.

Ketosis is not an "easy way out" nor is it "destructive to the body" it is a natural metabolic state that ~given proper diet~ everybody enters into daily.

Ketosis does not stress the liver, nor dos it lower metabolism. This fact, as well as every fact you've claimed thus far is all derived from information gathered via starvation induced ketosis, dietary induced ketosis is safe, natural, and most importantly, healthy.

You do not lose "five pounds of water for every pound of muscle you lose during ketosis" you do not lose muscle in dietary induced ketosis, only starvation induced ketosis, and your information is still wrong, in that it's 5lb of water for every lb of glycogen stored in the muscle.

Ketosis does not "starve the brain of energy!" yes, there is a small area of the brain that only uses mitochondria for energy (as well as the inner layer of the kidneys) all other areas of the brain can run perfectly well (and in many cases better) from ketones and eventually directly from triglycerides.

We are a forum FULL of ketosis eaters, many of us for years, I myself will be coming into a year of eating under a ketosis style diet, and I have experienced nothing of what you are mentioning of this"bodily damage" you make mention of.

You are a fool.



The body does not run on protein in dietary induced ketosis.

The brain does not "run on carbs" as mentioned before..... and ketosis eaters do not have "lowered brain activity" you however might.

A proper ketosis diet will spare bodily muscle as the dietary intake is adequate for the needs of the person.

Carbs are not your friend, nor your enemy, they are a dietary element and need to be applied correctly, many ketosis eaters have tried other diets and they have not worked, ketosis diets are safe, effective and have many benefits over other diets.

Everything you've said is true of starvation induced ketosis, dietary induced ketosis is safe and effective, the mitochondrial areas of the body that you say require carbs actually don't, they require glycogen, the small amounts needed can be acquired through glycogenesis, as well as the cori and glucose~alanine cycles, 54% of the protein you eat and 10% of the fats are converted to glycogen, as well as the lactic acid from using muscles being converted back to glycogen aswell.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

That was a good post. Why are you red though?

[Facts1]

As for the person who posted the article i just read it because i enjoy an argument (and not personal attacks) like one of the other responders gladly passed on. The article states that is it almost impossible for a human being to go into ketosis. So by posting that you have already negated your argument for it being a possible weight loss tool. I read the PDF written by the doctor from Cambridge and it was not peer reviewed nor did it have any references. The first half was also used as propoganda for the author which is the first sign of B.S. No study was involved and all he used was old medical books to make a hypothesis. I think people will always have their own opinion no matter what. If information came out that Keto diets were good for you and had no side effects dietitians would be able to recommend them unfortuatly in college we learned differently. (with peer reviewed sources to back that information.) I know lots of people are on this diet on this forum and I'm not trying to change it i would just like to know why so many people are unable to lose weight on a normal diet. I counsel athletes all the time and a normal diet has always worked. I have never hit a wall with anyone.

[s.o.u.p]

Originally Posted by RoodyPooUS

That was a good post. Why are you red though?

I disagreed with alan aragon over dextrose, so he negged me half a million points.

[skelooth]

Originally Posted by s.o.u.p

I disagreed with alan aragon over dextrose, so he negged me half a million points.

oh geez, my rep power was not enough..... ze goggles, zey do nothzing!

Fun fact, as a color blind person, on this monitor, i can not tell the difference between the positive and negative reps. Sucky.

[s.o.u.p]

Originally Posted by Facts1

As for the person who posted the article i just read it because i enjoy an argument (and not personal attacks) like one of the other responders gladly passed on. The article states that is it almost impossible for a human being to go into ketosis. So by posting that you have already negated your argument for it being a possible weight loss tool. I read the PDF written by the doctor from Cambridge and it was not peer reviewed nor did it have any references. The first half was also used as propoganda for the author which is the first sign of B.S. No study was involved and all he used was old medical books to make a hypothesis. I think people will always have their own opinion no matter what. If information came out that Keto diets were good for you and had no side effects dietitians would be able to recommend them unfortuatly in college we learned differently. (with peer reviewed sources to back that information.) I know lots of people are on this diet on this forum and I'm not trying to change it i would just like to know why so many people are unable to lose weight on a normal diet. I counsel athletes all the time and a normal diet has always worked. I have never hit a wall with anyone.

I'm sure many people with diabetes wished it were impossible to get into ketosis, that way they wouldn't fear their genetic predisposition from having them suffer from a bout of ketoacidosis.

And reading one article that you didn't believe doesn't disprove the hundreds of accounts of the effectiveness of ketosis, let alone the many hundreds of thousands of accounts on the internet at large.

As for working with athletes, well, start working with the general public and then bring us back your results. I think you'll find that your approach is rather one eyed.

[SophieM]

s.o.u.p- AWESOME post. repped.

FACTS1- I have no read the article, nor could I find it to see what it says. BUT I did find Eades & Eades website. They advocate a low carbohydrate diet. For example, from one of their blogs

"If, instead of starving, you?re following a low-carb diet, it gets even better. The protein you eat is converted to glucose instead of the protein in your muscles. If you keep the carbs low enough so that the liver still has to make some sugar, then you will be in fat-burning mode while maintaining your muscle mass, the best of all worlds. How low is low enough? Well, when the ketosis process is humming along nicely and the brain and other tissues have converted to ketones for fuel, the requirement for glucose drops to about 120-130 gm per day. If you keep your carbs below that at, say, 60 grams per day, you?re liver will have to produce at least 60-70 grams of glucose to make up the deficit, so you will generate ketones that entire time" Sound like someone who doesn't think you can be in ketosis? Didn't think so either.

Just because someone is trying to sell themselves in their PDF doesn't mean their facts aren't true. That just doesn't make sense.

Just sort of repeating what has been said. Here's an abstract (emphasis added): "During very low carbohydrate intake, the regulated and controlled production of ketone bodies causes a harmless physiological state known as dietary ketosis. Ketone bodies flow from the liver to extra-hepatic tissues (e.g., brain) for use as a fuel; this spares glucose metabolism via a mechanism similar to the sparing of glucose by oxidation of fatty acids as an alternative fuel. In comparison with glucose, the ketone bodies are actually a very good respiratory fuel. Indeed, there is no clear requirement for dietary carbohydrates for human adults. Interestingly, the effects of ketone body metabolism suggest that mild ketosis may offer therapeutic potential in a variety of different common and rare disease states. Also, the recent landmark study showed that a very-low-carbohydrate diet resulted in a significant reduction in fat mass and a concomitant increase in lean body mass in normal-weight men. Contrary to popular belief, insulin is not needed for glucose uptake and utilization in man. Finally, both muscle fat and carbohydrate burn in an amino acid flame."

I don't think everyone who is on this diet is on it to lose weight. Losing weight is easy, you eat less than you burn. Losing body fat while maintaining and/or gaining muscle mass is NOT easy but with ketosis, some have done just that.

[s.o.u.p]

Originally Posted by SophieM

s.o.u.p- AWESOME post. repped.

Thankyou, only 486,811 to go!

[magnum29464]

Originally Posted by Facts1

As for the person who posted the article i just read it because i enjoy an argument (and not personal attacks) like one of the other responders gladly passed on. The article states that is it almost impossible for a human being to go into ketosis. So by posting that you have already negated your argument for it being a possible weight loss tool. I read the PDF written by the doctor from Cambridge and it was not peer reviewed nor did it have any references. The first half was also used as propoganda for the author which is the first sign of B.S. No study was involved and all he used was old medical books to make a hypothesis. I think people will always have their own opinion no matter what. If information came out that Keto diets were good for you and had no side effects dietitians would be able to recommend them unfortuatly in college we learned differently. (with peer reviewed sources to back that information.) I know lots of people are on this diet on this forum and I'm not trying to change it i would just like to know why so many people are unable to lose weight on a normal diet. I counsel athletes all the time and a normal diet has always worked. I have never hit a wall with anyone.

By the time a peer reviewed article is released keto diets will have been pretty much varified as fact. the scientific community is always late to jump on the bandwagon. With science its always deny and laugh off until it can't be denied then its "yea, we knew this the whole time"... As a person with a condition that pretty much depends on the sicentific community you see this all the time. For some reason scientists are insanely skeptical about things they themselves didn't come up with or which goes against what they thought they knew.

[chasenwilliam]

I don't carb up. I tried it for a little bit, but it seemed to hinder my lifts, actually. I really, really like being in straight ketosis and not coming out of it. I feel much healthier and my moods are more stable.

[WorldStrike]

^See, and I'm quite the opposite. I've seen a lot of strength loss cutting on Keto. Usually I'd blame this on the caloric deficit, but I've cut with carbs before and it really hasn't hindered my lifting. My body is often tired...perhaps it's just too used to being dependant on carbs, but after 2 months I figured it would shape up. Also, my moods are much more chaotic on Keto.

[AndrewCa]

i just carb up today and i feel frigging bloated. i guess im going to try and not to carb up for two-three weeks... gees why does carbs have to hold water!!! bah

[jipp]

you'll lose it all in 2-3 days bro.