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  1. #1
    Registered User dte's Avatar
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    Glutamine=ammonia?

    I'm reading Michael Colgan's (old, 1993) Optimum Sports Nutrition book, in which he says that glutamine degrades into ammonia, hindering recovery.

    His solution is ornithine alpha-ketogluterate. Has anybody ever heard of this?
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    Oral glutamine supplementation can potentially produce undesirable levels of ammonia in the body. Ornithine alpha-ketogluturate as an alternative has been used to elevate glutamine status without ammonia buildup when taken orally
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    Registered User dte's Avatar
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    That's exactly what it said; it amazes me. I'd never heard such a thing about glutamine-- only that it aided recovery. I don't understand how this isn't widely known...unless I've just been in the dark.
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    wait...so besides the fact that it produces ammonia.....does it aid in recovery?? this is first time ive ever heard of this....every source ive ever come across has said that glutamine supplementation aids in muslce recovery
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    Originally Posted by Bull-Dog View Post
    Oral glutamine supplementation can potentially produce undesirable levels of ammonia in the body. Ornithine alpha-ketogluturate as an alternative has been used to elevate glutamine status without ammonia buildup when taken orally
    that's a load of **** noob. Glutamine actually protects AGAINST hyperammonemia. Glutamine is just the storage form of ammonia in the body.
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    Originally Posted by dte View Post
    That's exactly what it said; it amazes me. I'd never heard such a thing about glutamine-- only that it aided recovery. I don't understand how this isn't widely known...unless I've just been in the dark.
    You're being bamboozled.
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  7. #7
    Registered User dte's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UCFBuilder View Post
    wait...so besides the fact that it produces ammonia.....does it aid in recovery?? this is first time ive ever heard of this....every source ive ever come across has said that glutamine supplementation aids in muslce recovery
    Colgan suggests staying away from it: "If you use glutamine, you whack your body with amonia./ Unless kept absolutely dry, glutamine powder degrades into ammonia and pyroglutamic acid. It degrades even if you put it in solution only a few minutes before you drink it, and even in the stomach if you take it dry. Consequently, glutamione is not used with catabolic patients becuase it adds to their ammonia burden and jopardizes recovery."

    He goes on to suggest ornithine alpha-ketogluterate, as the substrate for glutamine, minus the ammonia, adding that alpha-ketogluterate and ornithine act as an ammonia scavengers.

    Ornithine alpha-ketogluterate in conjunction with arginine hyrdrochloride is also, according to the book, the most powerful arginine combination for increasing GH levels.
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    Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Colgan suggests staying away from it: "If you use glutamine, you whack your body with amonia./ Unless kept absolutely dry, glutamine powder degrades into ammonia and pyroglutamic acid. It degrades even if you put it in solution only a few minutes before you drink it, and even in the stomach if you take it dry. Consequently, glutamione is not used with catabolic patients becuase it adds to their ammonia burden and jopardizes recovery."

    He goes on to suggest ornithine alpha-ketogluterate, as the substrate for glutamine, minus the ammonia, adding that alpha-ketogluterate and ornithine act as an ammonia scavengers.

    Ornithine alpha-ketogluterate in conjunction with arginine hyrdrochloride is also, according to the book, the most powerful arginine combination for increasing GH levels.
    That is not true. Glutamine is used with critially ill patients and it is given orally as well an intravenously.
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    Registered User dte's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    that's a load of **** noob. Glutamine actually protects AGAINST hyperammonemia. Glutamine is just the storage form of ammonia in the body.

    "From 1971 to 1982, Michael Colgan, Ph. D., CCN, was a senior member of the Science Faculty of the University of Auckland, New Zealand... Dr. Colgan has been a consultant to the US National Institute on Aging and the New Zealand Government. His professional memberships include the American College of Sports Medicine, the New York Academy of Sciences, and the British Society for Nutritional Medicine. He is on the COuncil of the INternational and American Association of Clinical Nutritionists, the certifying authority for nutrition, and on the Editorial Board of the Journal of Applied Nutrition... [Colgan and the Colgan Institute] have published numerous professional paers, two university texts, andfive books... Dr. Colgan writes monthly articles for Muscular Development Magazine. "

    rhizome is not a forum newb.

    Guess that settles it.
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    that's a load of **** noob. Glutamine actually protects AGAINST hyperammonemia. Glutamine is just the storage form of ammonia in the body.

    I know Glutamine is used in the liver & kidney to make urea & ammonia which are normal breakdown products of protein, which are then excretted as Gllutamine participates in the detoxification of the ammonia.

    What i meant is excessive Glutamine CAN elevate rather than decrease ammonia levels, as it should do.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Bull-Dog View Post
    I know Glutamine is used in the liver & kidney to make urea & ammonia which are normal breakdown products of protein, which are then excretted as Gllutamine participates in the detoxification of the ammonia.

    What i meant is excessive Glutamine CAN elevate rather than decrease ammonia levels, as it should do.
    Why don't you guys use a glutamine ester such as N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine?
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by dte View Post
    "From 1971 to 1982, Michael Colgan, Ph. D., CCN, was a senior member of the Science Faculty of the University of Auckland, New Zealand... Dr. Colgan has been a consultant to the US National Institute on Aging and the New Zealand Government. His professional memberships include the American College of Sports Medicine, the New York Academy of Sciences, and the British Society for Nutritional Medicine. He is on the COuncil of the INternational and American Association of Clinical Nutritionists, the certifying authority for nutrition, and on the Editorial Board of the Journal of Applied Nutrition... [Colgan and the Colgan Institute] have published numerous professional paers, two university texts, andfive books... Dr. Colgan writes monthly articles for Muscular Development Magazine. "

    rhizome is not a forum newb.

    Guess that settles it.
    Technically he is not wrong but you are misinformed. Chemically speaking any amino acid can be broken down to ammonia and or urea it just depends on whether it is chemically favorable. Glutamine and creatine monodrate are some of the most closely watch supps there are and are used in hospitals all the time in renal patients where ammonia is a constant problem. It may break down to that but who cares your body takes care of it and excretes it in the urine or feces end of discussion.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by daveburton View Post
    Why don't you guys use a glutamine ester such as N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine?
    because with their logic it would not matter it would get broken down by an esterase to glutamine. but their logic is off.
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