Jones agrees to fight Silva in Octagon, UFC prez White says no

[Squizzy]

Way to contribute to the thread, champ! *Thumbs up*

[Gomi]

Of course you wouldn't agree to it. Hey, just an off-hand question: You dating much these days Gomi? Didn't think so.

my gf lives with me

what does dating have to do with anything?

and no i dont agree to it. i gave reason why, of course they are open to debate.

i just dont think everything is about the almighty dollar

[Mrs Grudge]

Uh-oh. Now you've done it.

Well it's not like he use to be the WCW champion .

Just saying, that's really all he had going coming into the first UFC. Big, muscular and a Pro Wrestler. Now he is a Division 1 champ, but that was many years ago such as RJJ being the best Boxer on the planet was. So in a sense that would cancel out. But in terms of drawing people to watch a fight, best middleweight boxer would draw more than a division 1 wrestler :-P .

[Squizzy]

brock lesnar at the end of his WWE days was a MUCH bigger draw than RJJ is currently...by far. Look at PPV buys and live crowds for WWE at that time versus RJJs last few fights...

I wouldn't go that far. Jones' fights against Trinidad and Calzaghe did very respectable numbers. I think the Trinidad fight did like 500,000+ PPV buys. Not too shabby for two over the hill fighters.

[Coach McGuirk]

Way to contribute to the thread, champ! *Thumbs up*

your right.... maybe i should tell everyone they are stupid and their posts suck and that they never get laid...

[Squizzy]

your right.... maybe i should tell everyone they are stupid and their posts suck and that they never get laid...

Now THAT'S the spirit.

[Squizzy]

my gf lives with me

Poor girl.

[Mrs Grudge]

brock lesnar at the end of his WWE days was a MUCH bigger draw than RJJ is currently...by far. Look at PPV buys and live crowds for WWE at that time versus RJJs last few fights...

Brock Lesnar left the WWE in the beginning of 2004. He then joined the UFC in 07 or 08. Wrestling fans have a pretty short memory, and also Lesnar was post Attitude Era so many wrestling fans had never heard of Brock Lesnar.

Post 2004, RJJ had the Rubber match with Antionio Tarver and then fought Felix Trinidad and Joe Calagzhe. A much bigger draw? I seriously question that.

I don't think that WWE buy rates were good back then either. They were producing so many PPV's that people had a difficult time purchasing them all.

[teamventure09]

If this article is true, then this doesn't make much sense money wise. I mean, Dana White would allow Brock Lesnar to fight but not RJJ? That doesn't make sense to me. The chances of RJJ beating Silva are pretty low, so I have no idea why Dana White would not take this.

I can see Silva trying to out box Jones though. So I guess there is some concern in that manner.

that's my guess as to why dana doesn't want them to fight. silva wants to prove that mma'ists are techinical strikers too and i think he would try to out box jones.

[BPP]

I wouldn't go that far. Jones' fights against Trinidad and Calzaghe did very respectable numbers. I think the Trinidad fight did like 500,000+ PPV buys. Not too shabby for two over the hill fighters.

jones v. yahoo #2 rated Calzaghe at the time only drew 225,000 buys, HALF of what they expected

jones v. sheika gave tickets away for free to sell out, and i cant find a single figure for # of buys


lesnar's v. herring and lesnar v. mir sold 600,000 buys...lesnar v. couture sold 1.1 million buys

[Coach McGuirk]

Well it's not like he use to be the WCW champion .

Just saying, that's really all he had going coming into the first UFC. Big, muscular and a Pro Wrestler. Now he is a Division 1 champ, but that was many years ago such as RJJ being the best Boxer on the planet was. So in a sense that would cancel out. But in terms of drawing people to watch a fight, best middleweight boxer would draw more than a division 1 wrestler :-P .

your missing the point.

there is that whole boxing vs mma thing that dana white is trying to avoid (for good reason)....

brock being a wwe star is great but he really was a great D1 wrestler.... win or lose everyone always lumps wrestling in with mma (unlike boxing) so if brock fails no big deal and if he wins they just say "he won because of his wrestling ability"....

now if jones won against a. silva it would not be "he won because of his boxing" it would would be "boxing is better than mma"...

see what im saying???

EDIT: and it has nothing to do with how long ago he wreslted vs how long ago jones boxed.... even if it did jones is old brock is still in his prime..

[Squizzy]

Post 2004, RJJ had the Rubber match with Antionio Tarver and then fought Felix Trinidad and Joe Calagzhe. A much bigger draw? I seriously question that.

I don't think that WWE buy rates were good back then either. They were producing so many PPV's that people had a difficult time purchasing them all.

You're right on the money Grudge.

[BPP]

Brock Lesnar left the WWE in the beginning of 2004. He then joined the UFC in 07 or 08. Wrestling fans have a pretty short memory, and also Lesnar was post Attitude Era so many wrestling fans had never heard of Brock Lesnar.

Post 2004, RJJ had the Rubber match with Antionio Tarver and then fought Felix Trinidad and Joe Calagzhe. A much bigger draw? I seriously question that.

I don't think that WWE buy rates were good back then either. They were producing so many PPV's that people had a difficult time purchasing them all.

check the stats

http://corporate.wwe.com/news/2003/2003_11_17.2.jsp

2003 was the time Lesnar became HW champ and the big star


the first quarter of 2003 had 2 pay per views. between these two they had 1.5 million buys


jones-tarver III had just over 400k buys...jones-calzaghe had 225k

[Mrs Grudge]

jones v. yahoo #2 rated Calzaghe at the time only drew 225,000 buys, HALF of what they expected

jones v. sheika gave tickets away for free to sell out, and i cant find a single figure for # of buys


lesnar's v. herring and lesnar v. mir sold 600,000 buys...lesnar v. couture sold 1.1 million buys

Now you're going all over the place in terms of time lines. I'm a little confused here. You originally said that, Lesnar at the end of his WWE career was a bigger draw than RJJ. I don't think that is true, Omar Sheika and Joe Calaghe were pretty recent fights.

Now RJJ, crossing over into MMA. It brings the whole entire 'What if' presence as well. A bigger what if presence then it would Lesnar (or atleast arguably; again my point is that they are comparable). They are both 'freak' show type of fights, but the question is - why give Lesnar a shot and not RJJ?

Also, Omar Shieka is a nobody and RJJ had just come off a loss.

Also, doesn't the first Quarter for the WWE consist of Royal Rumble, No Way Out and Wrestlemania? 2 of those are their biggest PPV's.

[Gomi]

your right.... maybe i should tell everyone they are stupid and their posts suck and that they never get laid...

whats funny is i was getting laid a year after he was born

kids are funny sometimes when they think they know more than they really do

[Coach McGuirk]

whats funny is i was getting laid a year after he was born

kids are funny sometimes when they think they know more than they really do

please never post here again gomi!!!! you dont get laid enough!!!!!

[Gomi]

Poor girl.

you're 23

you'll grow up someday. maybe.

[BPP]

Now you're going all over the place in terms of time lines. Also, Omar Shieka is a nobody and RJJ had just come off a loss.

really? both Lesnar's wwe time and his first 3 UFC fights have drawn more than any recent RJJ fight, tarver and calzaghe included

check my other post

[Squizzy]

jones v. yahoo #2 rated Calzaghe at the time only drew 225,000 buys, HALF of what they expected

jones v. sheika gave tickets away for free to sell out, and i cant find a single figure for # of buys


lesnar's v. herring and lesnar v. mir sold 600,000 buys...lesnar v. couture sold 1.1 million buys

Fair enough. But if they "expected" half a million PPV buys for Joe/Jones they better have expected to win the lottery as well! It's pretty well documented that Calzaghe isn't a draw outside of the UK, so I don't think you could put that squarely on Jones Jr. Besides, didn't that fight sell out MSG? So one way or the other, it wasn't an entire bust. Also, didn't both Lesnar/Herring and Lesnar/Mir appear on cards as co-main events? If so, it's possible that people were buying the fights not solely to watch them fight. As a matter of fact, Lesnar/Herring occurred on St. Pierre/Fitch, and I'm sure people weren't buying it to see Lesnar fight, let's put it that way. Jones Jr. does have drawing power still. His fight with Tito was VERY evident of that. And if you have to point to the Sheika fight, I'd say your basis for argument is pretty weak.

[Gomi]

please never post here again gomi!!!! you dont get laid enough!!!!!

i was thinking the same thing

maybe i should post on pr0n forums like our good friend sqeezie does

[hittman]

Brock trained for over a year with Militich before fighting, and wasnt given the P4P #1 on his first fight

this. plus he also had 100+ fights as a college wrestler. brock knows what he's doing. RJJ couldn't learn a substantial ground game in 'months'... unless he is BJ Penn. He'd completely have to change his style, no flashy leading strikes and running away... that would be a bore to watch. He's too far past his prime and this isn't what the UFC is about... it's about pitting skilled mixed martial artists against one another... those who love to fight... not those who love to fight for money like the majority of boxers.

[Squizzy]

really? both Lesnar's wwe time and his first 3 UFC fights have drawn more than any recent RJJ fight, tarver and calzaghe included

check my other post

That's not even a credible argument here though. People don't order UFC PPVs strictly for the main event. And as a matter of fact, for the most part, there's usually co-main events. It's a different type of PPV in boxing. Nobody is going to argue that Brock Lesnar isn't a draw. Of course he is. But to write Jones Jr. off entirely would be nothing short of foolish! He still has drawing power, whether you want to admit it or not!

[Mrs Grudge]

really? both Lesnar's wwe time and his first 3 UFC fights have drawn more than any recent RJJ fight, tarver and calzaghe included

check my other post

Perhaps you're right. But it's hard to rate the WWE in terms of drawing power. Also, that's essentially a whole corporation against 1 (I suppose 2 if you include RJJ's opponent) people. Also, Lesnar was a huge star but he was not the biggest star in the WWE. I'm not sure what the time frame is for the first quarter, but if it is January-April then that isn't a fare comparison since that is when WWE shelves out their biggest events.

Also, we have the whole debate - does boxing sell as much as it use to? Wrestling doesn't sell as much as it use to and boxing sure as heck don't. But a cross over appeal would attract old and new fans of Boxing/MMA.

Lesnar was brought in to fight, because he is a spectacle. He is a has been Pro Wrestler, but Wrestling fans still wanted to see him fight. It apparently worked since the PPV he debuted on sold so much. I don't see why it wouldn't be any different with Roy Jones JR.

[BPP]

That's not even a credible argument here though. People don't order UFC PPVs strictly for the main event. And as a matter of fact, for the most part, there's usually co-main events. It's a different type of PPV in boxing. Nobody is going to argue that Brock Lesnar isn't a draw. Of course he is. But to write Jones Jr. off entirely would be nothing short of foolish! He still has drawing power, whether you want to admit it or not!

way to put words in my mouth

please show me where I said jones ISN"T a draw?

I said he's not as big of a draw as Lesnar was when he entered the sport

I've posted numerous stats to back this claim

[Squizzy]

Also, we have the whole debate - does boxing sell as much as it use to? Wrestling doesn't sell as much as it use to and boxing sure as heck don't. But MMA on the other hand will continue to grow. Lesnar was brought in to fight, because he is a spectacle. Many people paid to see him fight. I don't see why it wouldn't be any different with Roy Jones JR.

Exactly. There's no true barometer to even gauge exactly who is the bigger draw. Regardless, the Silva/Jones fight should be made, and Dana is an idiot for not making this fight. He's not only depriving the fans of a fight they want to see, he's depriving the UFC of HUGE revenue. What an idiot.

[BPP]

top 10 PPV buys of 2008:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/12/1...h-american-ppv

Lesnar is #2,4,5...WWE is #3.. trinidad v. jones is #8



heres the buyrates for Dec 2006-Nov 2007:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums...d.php?t=178092

RJJ obviously isnt a HUGE draw on his own anymore, as you can see where he is on the list when he doesnt fight a top name

[Squizzy]

I said he's not as big of a draw as Lesnar was when he entered the sport

I've posted numerous stats to back this claim

You can give me all the numbers in the world, but there's no way to truly gauge that. Jones Jr. has to sell PPVs on his name ALONE. Brock had both the WWE and HAS the UFC to back up his PPV appearances. It's a different ballgame altogether. So therefore, I don't think your numbers count for too much to be quite honest.

[BPP]

Exactly. There's no true barometer to even gauge exactly who is the bigger draw. Regardless, the Silva/Jones fight should be made, and Dana is an idiot for not making this fight. He's not only depriving the fans of a fight they want to see, he's depriving the UFC of HUGE revenue. What an idiot.

I see...so after the stats prove you wrong, THEN they're blown off as worthless and unuseable, and we go back to a fact-less argument

gjdm

[Squizzy]

RJJ obviously isnt a HUGE draw on his own anymore, as you can see where he is on the list when he doesnt fight a top name

You are 100% correct. But what were talking about here, is a fight with Anderson Silva, who is also a draw. The fight would make money, and would be worth the risk for Dana and the UFC. No matter how you slice it, everyone wins. I don't know why ANYONE would be opposed to it. That's just me though.

[Mrs Grudge]

Also, 400 K buys is massive (which is what Jones Jr and Antinio Tarver 3 got). Most WWE PPV's do not break that. The only PPV that gets well over 1.0 is Wrestlemania.

Outside of Summerslam, WrestleMania and Royal Rumble - All these PPVs are below 1.0. If you look at the time frame that Lesnar was active in, they were all below 1.0 (aside from WM etc).

Lesnar really isn't that big of a draw. When he wrestled, Wrestling was no longer hot and was considered played out.

http://100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling...f/wwfppvbr.htm

Also, Roy Jones Jr and Felix Trinidad hit 500,000k if I recall correctly. I'll try and find a site for that.