AEN does it Again

[Frank-Castle]

Today was my first day on the new updated Presurge. Ive used pretty much every pre-work out product out there, and im not exaggerating. Its great to see a company constantly tweeking their products to be better and not resting until they have something truly great.

Todays experience with presurge was awesome to say the least. My strength was def way up, the pump was great and the energy was very smooth and lasted throughout the day. The minimum does (6 pills) was def enough for me. The older version of Presurge was great but this new one blows it away. AEN is def becoming a company you can trust and rely on to produce great, effective products.

Keep up the good work guys! Cant wait till you guys come out with a post-workout product!

[DaveGabe24]

Awesome, great to start hearing some feedback on the new PreSurge. We're expecting more reviews very similar to this to start pouring in.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

Today was my first day on the new updated Presurge. Ive used pretty much every pre-work out product out there, and im not exaggerating. Its great to see a company constantly tweeking their products to be better and not resting until they have something truly great.

Todays experience with presurge was awesome to say the least. My strength was def way up, the pump was great and the energy was very smooth and lasted throughout the day. The minimum does (6 pills) was def enough for me. The older version of Presurge was great but this new one blows it away. AEN is def becoming a company you can trust and rely on to produce great, effective products.

Keep up the good work guys! Cant wait till you guys come out with a post-workout product!

Great review, thanks for taking the time. More people should try PreSurge, there is NOTHING like it in the pre-workout category!

[haiz69]

Looking forward to giving the new one a shot. I ended up using 8-9 caps of the old one for amazing results, but sounds like 6 will be plenty for this one.

AEN puts out some great products. I've yet to be dissapointed.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

Looking forward to giving the new one a shot. I ended up using 8-9 caps of the old one for amazing results, but sounds like 6 will be plenty for this one.

AEN puts out some great products. I've yet to be dissapointed.

We aim to never disappoint and want people to know with confidence that can try any AEN product and get great results. We are about quality not quantity!

[jyear]

Is the 6 caps still recommended for someone who is around 150lbs?

[joakman]

Today was my first day on the new updated Presurge. Ive used pretty much every pre-work out product out there, and im not exaggerating. Its great to see a company constantly tweeking their products to be better and not resting until they have something truly great.

Todays experience with presurge was awesome to say the least. My strength was def way up, the pump was great and the energy was very smooth and lasted throughout the day. The minimum does (6 pills) was def enough for me. The older version of Presurge was great but this new one blows it away. AEN is def becoming a company you can trust and rely on to produce great, effective products.

Keep up the good work guys! Cant wait till you guys come out with a post-workout product!

Wait, your strength was way up on the first day of using it

[Frank-Castle]

Im very judgemental with all supplements and I try to take an unbiased approach to everything i use. Today after taking presurge i felt awesome in the gym. Im very strict with my diet and training. Im also very aware of the placebo effect of a supplement. Ive been lifting and taking supps long enough that there really is no more placebo effect. Today even my workout partner was amazed how much i increased wieght on shoulder press (+20 lbs). Now i dont attribute that completely to presurge, im not that nieve but i will def say it helped. I just really feel its an awesome product. Awesome enough that i decided to write a reveiw about it. I have never taken the time to write a review about any product ive used before.

[joakman]

Im very judgemental with all supplements and I try to take an unbiased approach to everything i use. Today after taking presurge i felt awesome in the gym. Im very strict with my diet and training. Im also very aware of the placebo effect of a supplement. Ive been lifting and taking supps long enough that there really is no more placebo effect. Today even my workout partner was amazed how much i increased wieght on shoulder press (+20 lbs). Now i dont attribute that completely to presurge, im not that nieve but i will def say it helped. I just really feel its an awesome product. Awesome enough that i decided to write a reveiw about it. I have never taken the time to write a review about any product ive used before.

Increased your shoulder press by 20 lbs in one workout? Coming from a guy that says he has used methyl-test and 4-AD in the past, I don't buy it honestly. There is a disconnect from saying you are very strict on diet and training, but went up that much in workout with past steroid use, not happening.

Not questioning the product by any means because I am very interested in it.

[Frank-Castle]

Judge if you want, i just feel its a great product. Like i said i dont attribute it all to presurge but it def helped. I have shoulder probs so for me it was great and i would not have attempted it had i not felt so good. Someone on here is always trying to find fault with something.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

Is the 6 caps still recommended for someone who is around 150lbs?

It's less about body weight and more about sensitivity to the stim aspect, which aren't often related. The formula is properly dosed at 6 caps(one serving) but since there's always variability in people's sensitivity to stims, we give the dosage range of 1-2 servings. Most won't go over 1.5 servings though.

Trial and error will be your best bet. Compared to the previous version, I find 6 caps equal to 7-8!

[luckyali]

Looking forward to giving the new one a shot. I ended up using 8-9 caps of the old one for amazing results, but sounds like 6 will be plenty for this one.

AEN puts out some great products. I've yet to be dissapointed.

I think 6 should be more than enough considering its effectiveness and strength.

[Dedicated37]

Great review! I'm wondering how the new PreSurge is compared to SuperPump250...

[purefitness]

Had you used the original version before, and if so how many caps did you need to feel the effects?

I am also sceptical about the initial strength boost, as many of the ingredients require longer to kick in, however I do believe you...sometimes just the extra motivation and drive from a great stimulant alone can provide you with those type of immediate strength increases.

[knappj69]

At the moment I'm taking 7 caps with the older version and have to admit the energy boost is not there but I love the pump. Does the new version offer some type of energy and is it available for purchase now?

[joakman]

Judge if you want, i just feel its a great product. Like i said i dont attribute it all to presurge but it def helped. I have shoulder probs so for me it was great and i would not have attempted it had i not felt so good. Someone on here is always trying to find fault with something.

I am not trying to find a fault in anything, it just bothers me when someone says they increased a lift by 20 lbs in one workout when their diet is perfect as well as their training who has used steroids in the past. You don't jump 20 lbs in one workout unless you are on steroids, and even then it is a rare case.

I looked at the review because I am interested in the product. The only thing I learned in this thread is that their is a new version of the product.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

Great review! I'm wondering how the new PreSurge is compared to SuperPump250...

Check out the feedback!- http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112232981

Had you used the original version before, and if so how many caps did you need to feel the effects?

I am also sceptical about the initial strength boost, as many of the ingredients require longer to kick in, however I do believe you...sometimes just the extra motivation and drive from a great stimulant alone can provide you with those type of immediate strength increases.

Yeah, exactly, mood and aggression alone can cause pretty large strength increases. He already said he didn't attribute it all to the product.

Likely just a strong day, combined with the extra stim aspect of PreSurge, nothing too hard to believe at all.

At the moment I'm taking 7 caps with the older version and have to admit the energy boost is not there but I love the pump. Does the new version offer some type of energy and is it available for purchase now?

Yes, we strengthened the stim aspect, which was the only area that people sometimes mentioned needed improvement at one serving. It's available NOW at bb.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/presurge.html

I am not trying to find a fault in anything, it just bothers me when someone says they increased a lift by 20 lbs in one workout when their diet is perfect as well as their training who has used steroids in the past. You don't jump 20 lbs in one workout unless you are on steroids, and even then it is a rare case.

I looked at the review because I am interested in the product. The only thing I learned in this thread is that their is a new version of the product.

There are many variables on why he could have. The most obvious, he perhaps had not been pushing himself to the max on that exercise for quite a while and felt strong that particular workout and gave it his all. More of overcoming a psychological barrier than anything. He could have warmed up better, the list goes on and on.

And YES caffeine brings about ACUTE strength increases, so that's not difficult to believe either.

It's also the shoulder press, 20lbs is not like increasing 20lbs on dumbell curls in workout or anything.

[joakman]

There are many variables on why he could have. The most obvious, he perhaps had not been pushing himself to the max on that exercise for quite a while and felt strong that particular workout and gave it his all. More of overcoming a psychological barrier than anything. He could have warmed up better, the list goes on and on.

And YES caffeine brings about ACUTE strength increases, so that's not difficult to believe either.

It's also the shoulder press, 20lbs is not like increasing 20lbs on dumbell curls in workout or anything.

I hoped you wouldn't chime in to try justifying his response. Try having someone log a PH/DS and see how often they go up 20 lbs in a workout and have others believe them, now do the same with a pre-workout product. Not going to happen. There are no variables in the world large enough for me to believe that he increased the weight 20 lbs from this product in one workout after being experienced with steroids, no way. Unless he is also on a steroid now.

Lost all interest if you seriously tried defending that.


EDIT: Oh and by the looks of his posts he just finished "The One" about a week ago. On PCT and threw up 20 more lbs, mhmm

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

I hoped you wouldn't chime in to try justifying his response. Try having someone log a PH/DS and see how often they go up 20 lbs in a workout and have others believe them, now do the same with a pre-workout product. Not going to happen. There are no variables in the world large enough for me to believe that he increased the weight 20 lbs from this product in one workout after being experienced with steroids, no way. Unless he is also on a steroid now.

Lost all interest if you seriously tried defending that.

I'll chime in whenever I want. And strength from one workout to another can vary regardless of any supplements. His increase could be completely unrelated to the supplement, it's in no way in impossibility.

I studied exercise physiology for 4 years and have a pretty good idea of how much strength can vary even from early AM workout to night workouts.

[joakman]

I'll chime in whenever I want. And strength from one workout to another can vary regardless of any supplements. His increase could be completely unrelated to the supplement, it's in no way in impossibility.

I studied exercise physiology for 4 years and have a pretty good idea of how much strength can vary even from early AM workout to night workouts.

I didn't ask for your credentials, I could care less. Don't try justifying to me that he increased shoulder presses by 20 lbs in a week based on his history, you won't sway my opinion other than now not trying the product.

Im also very aware of the placebo effect of a supplement. Ive been lifting and taking supps long enough that there really is no more placebo effect.

Right. Diet spot on, training spot on, past use of steroids, but somehow this product increased his lift by 20 lbs in one workout on his first dose. You believe that? Hah

You can get all pissy and say whatever you feel, but try this on any proven lifter on the forum with those same credentials and I would guarantee that most wouldn't put on 20 lbs on their shoulder press in a month (unless on a hormonal product), period.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

I didn't ask for your credentials, I could care less. Don't try justifying to me that he increased shoulder presses by 20 lbs in a week based on his history, you won't sway my opinion other than now not trying the product.

Right. Diet spot on, training spot on, past use of steroids, but somehow this product increased his lift by 20 lbs in one workout on his first dose. You believe that? Hah

You can get all pissy and say whatever you feel, but try this on any proven lifter on the forum with those same credentials and I would guarantee that most wouldn't put on 20 lbs on their shoulder press in a month (unless on a hormonal product), period.

Eitherway, I went to university for 4 years studying exercise physiology, which is why I think your comments are ignorant, ESPECIALLY when we know little to know variables of his situation. But that didn't stop you from jumping all over him. I am speaking specifically from an exercise physiology standpoint, NOT a supplement stand point in terms of strength gains.

Again, it could have ZERO to do with PreSurge, I am not debating that, you are just fixated on stating that he or myself are attributing the increase to PreSurge, when neither of us are. I'm also saying again, the increase could have ZERO to do with PreSurge and it's very possible, especially when he disclosed VERY little detail on his current situation.

As far as getting pissy, LOL, doesn't happen man, not in the least. It's actually fine that people question, you're giving yourself too much credit if you think in some way your questions have angered me.

Yes, other company reps, should not be doing what you are doing BUT, I actually believe you are being sincere in your comments and have no problem with your questions. You just need to see the full picture and the fact is we DO NOT know important details of his situation, that could EASILY make his strength increase possible, AGAIN it could have ZERO to do with PreSurge. It's not black and white like you are going on about

[joakman]

Eitherway, I went to university for 4 years studying exercise physiology, which is why I think your comments are ignorant, ESPECIALLY when we know little to know variables of his situation. But that didn't stop you from jumping all over him. I am speaking specifically from an exercise physiology standpoint, NOT a supplement stand point in terms of strength gains.

Again, it could have ZERO to do with PreSurge, I am not debating that, you are just fixated on stating that he or myself are attributing the increase to PreSurge, when neither of us are. I'm also saying again, the increase could have ZERO to do with PreSurge and it's very possible, especially when he disclosed VERY little detail on his current situation.

As far as getting pissy, LOL, doesn't happen man, not in the least. It's actually fine that people question, you're giving yourself too much credit if you think in some way your questions have angered me.

Yes, other company reps, should not be doing what you are doing BUT, I actually belive you are being sincere in your comments and have no problem with your questions. You just need to see the full picture and the fact is we DO NOT know important details of his situation, that could EASILY make his strength increase possible, AGAIN it could have ZERO to do with PreSurge. It's not black and white like you are going on about

My comments are ignorant, wow. I didn't jump all over him, I simply stated the facts to the situation. Even if he was on Superdrol I would have a hard time believing he went up 20 lbs on shoulder presses on one workout. I could care less what product he used to have that increase, nothing would justify it other than steroids, that is my point.

If you are not pissy, then damn sure arrogant. Again you posted your credentials, doesn't mean anything to me or to the situation. I know plenty of people with the same credentials and then some and would simply laugh at this.

Company reps should not be doing what I am doing? Explain exactly what I am doing? I was interested in the product, hence I look at a review and it smells like complete bull**** to be blunt. I am looking at the big picture and saying that nothing in the situation of an experienced bodybuilder (spot on diet, spot on training, steroid use) would cause an increase of 20 lbs, regardless if it was from 115 to 135 or 315 to 335. I am not crediting/discrediting anything to your product, just saying regardless of what he used it wouldn't happen without steroids.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

My comments are ignorant, wow. I didn't jump all over him, I simply stated the facts to the situation. Even if he was on Superdrol I would have a hard time believing he went up 20 lbs on shoulder presses on one workout. I could care less what product he used to have that increase, nothing would justify it other than steroids, that is my point.

If you are not pissy, then damn sure arrogant. Again you posted your credentials, doesn't mean anything to me or to the situation. I know plenty of people with the same credentials and then some and would simply laugh at this.

Company reps should not be doing what I am doing? Explain exactly what I am doing? I was interested in the product, hence I look at a review and it smells like complete bull**** to be blunt. I am looking at the big picture and saying that nothing in the situation of an experienced bodybuilder (spot on diet, spot on training, steroid use) would cause an increase of 20 lbs, regardless if it was from 115 to 135 or 315 to 335. I am not crediting/discrediting anything to your product, just saying regardless of what he used it wouldn't happen without steroids.

Man, I don't know how many times I need to say this, his increase could have had NOTHING to do with the supplement and it's very possible, especially not knowing all the details.

This is actually the first time in 3-4 years being on here, I have mentioned my credentials and I didn't post them to impress or act cocky, I actually could care less and am usually annoyed when people do the same. But I did NOT mention them for these reasons, i mentioned them becuase I know exercise physiology damn well and know how many variable can impact strength, be it training status, time of day, mood and MANY more variables. Has NOTHING to do with supplements.

Yes, read the rules on the forum, in a nutshell companies should not be talking negative about eachothers products! But, I actually don't care about that(with a few exceptions) and don't have a problem with your questions, so no need to get defensive.

My point is, you are LOCKED into thinking only ONE way on his post, I am trying to give you another way to view things and actually a way that is VERY plausable. In general, I am pretty conservative/moderate, especially when talking about science, so when i say what I am, it's not even REMOTELY a leap of logic. You just need to really read what I'm stating instead of repeating the same thing over and over.

I FULLY understand what you are stating and I AGREE with saying PreSurge or ANY supplement would not cause that increase in ONE workout, though the stim aspect likely helped. But damn man lol, you're not reading or seeing my perspective at all. If you were, I doubt you would be disagreeing, unless you know very little about exercise physiology, particularity from a neuromuscular perspective.

[joakman]

Man, I don't know how many times I need to say this, his increase could have had NOTHING to do with the supplement and it's very possible, especially not knowing all the details.

This is actually the first time in 3-4 years being on here, I have mentioned my credentials and I didn't post them to impress or act cocky, I actually could care less and am usually annoyed when people do the same. But I did NOT mention them for these reasons, i mentioned them becuase I know exercise physiology damn well and know how many variable can impact strength, be it training status, time of day, mood and MANY more variables. Has NOTHING to do with supplements.

Yes, read the rules on the forum, in a nutshell companies should not be talking negative about eachothers products! But, I actually don't care about that(with a few exceptions) and don't have a problem with your questions, so no need to get defensive.

My point is, you are LOCKED into thinking only ONE way on his post, I am trying to give you another way to view things and actually a way that is VERY plausable. In general, I am pretty conservative/moderate, especially when talking about science, so when i say what I am, it's not even REMOTELY a leap of logic. You just need to really read what I'm stating instead of repeating the same thing over and over.

I FULLY understand what you are stating and I AGREE with saying PreSurge or ANY supplement would not cause that increase in ONE workout, though the stim aspect likely helped. But damn man lol, you're not reading or seeing my perspective at all. If you were, I doubt you would be disagreeing, unless you know very little about exercise physiology, particularity from a neuromuscular perspective.

I am not stating anything about the supplement, and damn sure haven't said anything negative about it. So, don't try pulling that by me questioning this guys review is somehow against any rules and by you stating you welcome questioning makes you look like the good guy. I am not defensive in the least bit, you are simply standing behind his claim because it would make your product look great. If it was the opposite, I am damn sure you would be in here stating there are many variables that could have affected your workout prior to the reverse of your first post.

I assume you now see my point of calling you arrogant considering you feel the same way when people post their "credentials". Yes, many variables can change things, I don't see it happening in this guys case. Here is what we do know; spot on training, diet, has run at the least 3 steroids, and is in PCT currently. If a guy has run at the least 3 steroids and is increasing his shoulder press by 20 lbs in PCT put him on-stage on the Olympia, get my point?


EDIT: Wouldn't advise your reps to neg me either, that is quite pointless and makes your company look pretty mad/sad.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

I am not stating anything about the supplement, and damn sure haven't said anything negative about it. So, don't try pulling that by me questioning this guys review is somehow against any rules and by you stating you welcome questioning makes you look like the good guy. I am not defensive in the least bit, you are simply standing behind his claim because it would make your product look great. If it was the opposite, I am damn sure you would be in here stating there are many variables that could have affected your workout prior to the reverse of your first post.

Seriously man, I have REPEATEDLY stated that PreSurge may not be the reason at all, how does that make our product look great, lol!

I assume you now see my point of calling you arrogant considering you feel the same way when people post their "credentials". Yes, many variables can change things, I don't see it happening in this guys case. Here is what we do know; spot on training, diet, has run at the least 3 steroids, and is in PCT currently. If a guy has run at the least 3 steroids and is increasing his shoulder press by 20 lbs in PCT put him on-stage on the Olympia, get my point?


EDIT: Wouldn't advise your reps to neg me either, that is quite pointless and makes your company look pretty mad/sad.

Yes, I do see you point and agree, I find it pretentious and condescending, which is why I never mention them but did in this case for different reasons I mentioned above.

You're making many assumptions based off little data and what you think. I 100% disagree with you and most people that I know that have studied and understand exercise physiology would agree with me.

Again, this has little to NOTHING to do with supplements, steriods at this point, just exercise physiology and us not knowing all of his variables, nothing more dramatic than that.

And you have NO clue about me, if you ever think I would ever have my reps neg rep you. If I wanted to, I would neg you, not have my reps do it! But I wouldn't do that either, I'm not that petty.

Who neg repped you btw, SHOWTIME? he can get a little edgy at times!

[joakman]

Seriously man, I have REPEATEDLY stated that PreSurge may not be the reason at all, how does that make our product look great, lol!

Yes, I do see you point and agree, I find it pretentious and condescending, which is why I never mention them but did in this case for different reasons I mentioned above.

You're making many assumptions based off little data and what you think. I 100% disagree with you and most people that I know that have studied and understand exercise physiology would agree with me.

Again, this has little to NOTHING to do with supplements, steriods at this point, just exercise physiology and us not knowing all of his variables, nothing more dramatic than that.

And you have NO clue about me, if you ever think I would ever have my reps neg rep you. If I wanted to, I would neg you, not have my reps do it! But I wouldn't do that either, I'm not that petty.

The REVIEW will make the product look great, Jesus Christ.

Yes, people may agree with you, but people would also laugh in your face. You can 100% disagree with me all you want, again, I could care less. My assumptions are based on some truth, you are basing yours on variables that you are saying could have some implication with no background on what they may be. Let me know all the people who have run more than 3 steroids, steady diet and training, who just throw up 20 lbs more on shoulder presses during a PCT. You should look at the big picture.

I never said you had your reps neg me, I said I would advise them not to, as it makes your company look "petty". But, one indeed did.

Again if this was a negative view you would have taken a complete different approach and brought variables into question. But, since it is a positive review you state.

"Great review, thanks for taking the time. More people should try PreSurge, there is NOTHING like it in the pre-workout category!"

Do you get it yet?

[Frank-Castle]

Honestly joakman i dont get what your problem is. Ive tired to explain this the best that i can throughout this post. Ill try again... I really messed up my shoulder about 6 yrs ago and was very lucky to avoid surgery. It took about 2 years to get it back to even close to where it was (through physical therapy). Ever since then ive been very cautious with it and have very very slowing increased the amount of weight i was able to do on shoulder press. Reason being because everytime i go heavy with it, the next day its extremely painful. Now i know normally a 20lbs increase on a lift sounds crazy no matter what anyone takes. However the 20lbs I added was weight I was doing a while back and I was impressed that I was able to get back close to the point where i was. Like i stated above I dont contribute that all the a pre-workout supp, that would be rediculous. I just know that i felt great yesterday after taking the product and felt i could attempt it. Strength is def a mental and physical thing. Again i just feel its a great product so I wrote the review. Your trying to make it seem like all my lifts increased after one dose. I guess I should have clarified myself in the begining and given you my medical backround so you didnt turn this post into something unhderhanded. Ive taken alot of dif supps in the past just like hundreds of people on here, including PH's. I dont see what that has to do with anything in this post. Its simply a post to say i really enjoyed a product and I really like the company for producing great products. Its that simple.

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

The REVIEW will make the product look great, Jesus Christ.

Yes, people may agree with you, but people would also laugh in your face. You can 100% disagree with me all you want, again, I could care less. My assumptions are based on some truth, you are basing yours on variables that you are saying could have some implication with no background on what they may be. Let me know all the people who have run more than 3 steroids, steady diet and training, who just throw up 20 lbs more on shoulder presses during a PCT. You should look at the big picture.

I never said you had your reps neg me, I said I would advise them not to, as it makes your company look "petty". But, one indeed did.

Again if this was a negative view you would have taken a complete different approach and brought variables into question. But, since it is a positive review you state.

"Great review, thanks for taking the time. More people should try PreSurge, there is NOTHING like it in the pre-workout category!"

Do you get it yet?

Ok, this is going nowhere!

And, while I appreciate it, there's no reason to advise me how to run my company on the forum. We have been on here for years and do just fine and rarely if ever get into forum drama!

And NO, I would not have taken a different view had the review been different, seriously man, you really fabricate alot. You're likely not familiar with my posting style if you really think this and yeah, I know you don't care ect ect.

People can say whatever they want about our products and when they say negatives, that's fine as well and no I do not blame diet and training like many of the companies do on here if they are not happy with how someone reviewed their product.

Bottom line, it's not up to us(the company) to decide on how good a product is, it's the consumer who will ultimately decide. Of course, I'm going to believe and support our products but, people know and should always take company owner/reps ect point of view with a grain of salt.


And please don't beat the dead horse anymore, we can simply agree to disagree.

[JJ22]

The OP and AEN both stated that it isn't all attributed to Presurge.

When I first dosed Phenadrine I increased my shoulder press by 20lbs... but again I didn't totally credit Phenadrine for it, a lot of other variables were in play that can't be overlooked. Likewise, neither the OP or AEN are saying Presurge is 100% responsible for the increase.

I don't see what the argument is here?

[ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION]

Honestly joakman i dont get what your problem is. Ive tired to explain this the best that i can throughout this post. Ill try again... I really messed up my shoulder about 6 yrs ago and was very lucky to avoid surgery. It took about 2 years to get it back to even close to where it was (through physical therapy). Ever since then ive been very cautious with it and have very very slowing increased the amount of weight i was able to do on shoulder press. Reason being because everytime i go heavy with it, the next day its extremely painful. Now i know normally a 20lbs increase on a lift sounds crazy no matter what anyone takes. However the 20lbs I added was weight I was doing a while back and I was impressed that I was able to get back close to the point where i was. Like i stated above I dont contribute that all the a pre-workout supp, that would be rediculous. I just know that i felt great yesterday after taking the product and felt i could attempt it. Strength is def a mental and physical thing. Again i just feel its a great product so I wrote the review. Your trying to make it seem like all my lifts increased after one dose. I guess I should have clarified myself in the begining and given you my medical backround so you didnt turn this post into something unhderhanded. Ive taken alot of dif supps in the past just like hundreds of people on here, including PH's. I dont see what that has to do with anything in this post. Its simply a post to say i really enjoyed a product and I really like the company for producing great products. Its that simple.

This is exactly a variable to the situation that we didn't know and makes your feedback completely possible.

This is why I kept stating, WAY too much was being assumed and sure enough and here's an explanation.

The OP and AEN both stated that it isn't all attributed to Presurge.

When I first dosed Phenadrine I increased my shoulder press by 20lbs... but again I didn't totally credit Phenadrine for it, a lot of other variables were in play that can't be overlooked. Likewise, neither the OP or AEN are saying Presurge is 100% responsible for the increase.

I don't see what the argument is here?

Agreed, just shows, don't jump to conclusions without knowing or even asking to hear the full story.