What to do about fat people?

[NCK MIZ]

This is what the science says. It's not the only factor but it appears to be the largest.Well this is also what the science says. Conservatives are much more likely than others to be racist and prejudice against a wide range of groups, including fat people. Usually the reason is that they violate social norms, they don't live up to what conservatives think everyone should be like.

where?? What science?? You took a small bit of a psychological article and used it to establish science saying people's genetics are making people fat. That is not science. That article was geared towards attitudes about overweight individuals, it had nothing to do with the physiology behind being overweight. A very small portion, less than 1% of the population might have a genetic problem, how does that explain 65% of the population being overweight?

Also try finding a study that does not overfeed RATS and then starve them (which would F with anyone's metabolism) to back up your science.

64% of Americans were not born with genetic problems that make them overweight, eating more and exercising less, is what is making Americans overweight. Science does back that up. I mean come on if the extremely obese people on the Biggest Loser can lose all that weight how can you say that alot of Americans have genetic issues that cause them to be overweight?

The Brownfeld study focuses on yo-yo dieting and the problems it can cause in RATS.... if an individual is not obese to begin with there would be no problems, please supply some better "science" to back up your opinion that genetics is what is causing individuals to become obese and to remain obese.

[anonymous]

where?? What science?? You took a small bit of a psychological article and used it to establish science saying people's genetics are making people fat. That is not science. That article was geared towards attitudes about overweight individuals, it had nothing to do with the physiology behind being overweight. A very small portion, less than 1% of the population might have a genetic problem, how does that explain 65% of the population being overweight?

Also try finding a study that does not overfeed RATS and then starve them (which would F with anyone's metabolism) to back up your science.

64% of Americans were not born with genetic problems that make them overweight, eating more and exercising less, is what is making Americans overweight. Science does back that up. I mean come on if the extremely obese people on the Biggest Loser can lose all that weight how can you say that alot of Americans have genetic issues that cause them to be overweight?

The Brownfeld study focuses on yo-yo dieting and the problems it can cause in RATS.... if an individual is not obese to begin with there would be no problems, please supply some better "science" to back up your opinion that genetics is what is causing individuals to become obese and to remain obese.

Most people are either insulin resistant or succeptable to it (brought on from years of carb-heavy diets). Add the mega-cal, mega fat combinations to the 1000's of bad carbs and anyone is going to get fat.

Of course being predisposed to getting fat from too many carbs is hardly an excuse for being a disgusting fatbody, you just need to eat fewer carbs.

[Wowstrongcut]

give them a fair amount of time to lose weight then if they dont make progress kill them

[Dave P]

give them a fair amount of time to lose weight then if they dont make progress kill them

Like a fix-it-ticket for when your windows are tinted on your car.


"Get this fixed in the next year or else".

[NCK MIZ]

Most people are either insulin resistant or succeptable to it (brought on from years of carb-heavy diets). Add the mega-cal, mega fat combinations to the 1000's of bad carbs and anyone is going to get fat.

Of course being predisposed to getting fat from too many carbs is hardly an excuse for being a disgusting fatbody, you just need to eat fewer carbs.

But you are saying that they have become insulin sensitive do to eating an unhealthy diet on their part for many years. So that is not science saying that when they are born they are predisposed to be fat. Not everyone can have a fitness model body, but VERY few people have the right to claim medical/genetic problems for being obese. Most of these medical issues are brought on by them eating like crap in the first place.

I was extremely overweight as a child and in HS. Started watching what I ate and exercising regularly and I can control my weight perfectly. I am very sensitive to carbs, that just means I need to watch how many I eat, not that I have the right to be obese.

[anonymous]

oh I'm agreeing with you - the dormant genetic issues they have would never have become active if they'd not eating like **** for years.

the media, the government and the medical establishment all hold equal amounts of blame.. I dont blame the food industry because it's just trying to make a dollah - the other three groups should have held the food industry in check.... instead of taking it's checks

[Dave P]

You ever feel bad for cigarette smokers and how ostricized they've become yet the same people that ridicule smokers are often the first to come to the defense of fat people?

[NCK MIZ]

You ever feel bad for cigarette smokers and how ostricized they've become yet the same people that ridicule smokers are often the first to come to the defense of fat people?

I am totally for fat people being ridiculed the same way as cigarette smokers. I think until we start treating it as an issue and stop being so PC about it nothing will change.

[1veedo]

where?? What science?? You took a small bit of a psychological article and used it to establish science saying people's genetics are making people fat. That is not science. That article was geared towards attitudes about overweight individuals, it had nothing to do with the physiology behind being overweight. A very small portion, less than 1% of the population might have a genetic problem, how does that explain 65% of the population being overweight?

Also try finding a study that does not overfeed RATS and then starve them (which would F with anyone's metabolism) to back up your science.

64% of Americans were not born with genetic problems that make them overweight, eating more and exercising less, is what is making Americans overweight. Science does back that up. I mean come on if the extremely obese people on the Biggest Loser can lose all that weight how can you say that alot of Americans have genetic issues that cause them to be overweight?

The Brownfeld study focuses on yo-yo dieting and the problems it can cause in RATS.... if an individual is not obese to begin with there would be no problems, please supply some better "science" to back up your opinion that genetics is what is causing individuals to become obese and to remain obese.

Look back in the thread; the majority of scientific research points to biological factors being the most important for body weight. I have something like 15 studies referenced in that quote, many of them being metastudies (a study that takes every other study done on a topic and statistically draws conclusions, ie if 12 out of 13 studies show that fat people tend to eat less than everyone else then the general consensus sides with those 12 articles, not the one article showing that fat people eat more than everyone else).

Psychology also tells us that modern prejudice against fat people isn't any different than prejudice against black people.

[NCK MIZ]

Look back in the thread; the majority of scientific research points to biological factors being the most important for body weight. I have something like 15 studies referenced in that quote, many of them being metastudies (a study that takes every other study done on a topic and statistically draws conclusions, ie if 12 out of 13 studies show that fat people tend to eat less than everyone else then the general consensus sides with those 12 articles, not the one article showing that fat people eat more than everyone else).

Psychology also tells us that modern prejudice against fat people isn't any different than prejudice against black people.

Non of the articles you cite point to biological factors being the most important, they form hypotheses that these factors have a role at set points and I did not argue that, however you are arguing that a large majority of individuals have set points that are at obese and you have yet to support this claim.

Here is my analysis of each of the citations you claim to be science:

(Stunkard et al.,
1986) found that the body fat of children was highly correlated
with the biological parents' body fat, but uncorrelated with the
adoptive parents' body fat.

This article points to the idea that everyone has a "set point", but says nothing about genetics making individuals obese, they also don't give the correlation either, any correlation becomes significant with a large enough sample size, so that is not sufficient evidence to prove that biological factors cause obesity.

Garrow, J. (1974). Energy balance and obesity in man. New York: Elsevier.

Meta-Analysis is the correct term for compiling data from multiple studies, however that is a review of 12-13 studies from a book, not in a peer reviewed journal, so it is not a meta-analysis, but one person's subjective review. He also concluded that the results of the study found that obese people did not eat more during the study than "normal" weight individuals. Scientists have shown that once individuals become obese they do not need to eat much more than a normal individual to maintain that weight, just as normal weight individuals can eat at maintenance and maintain, so can obese individuals.

Those studies have no longitudinal data to support the fact that both obese and normal weight individuals were raised on the exact same caloric diet, until that study is done you have no data to support you.

Nisbett, R. E. (1972). Hunger, obesity, and the ventromedial hypothalamus.
Psychological Review, 79, 433-453

The Nisbett article you claim as a citation is from psychological review, I am sure you are not familiar with journals as I am, however psychological review consists of articles of theoretical frameworks, therefore no experiment/study was performed, however a hypothesis was developed through theory. That is not science, just theory. Until his hypothesis has data to support it you can not claim that as science.

So please as I said earlier, show me SCIENCE that points to the fact that individuals are predetermined to be obese even if they eat a healthy diet.

[1veedo]

I'm not talking about a "set point". You are putting words in my mouth. Genes interact with the environment so there are plenty of environmental factors that effect body weight, besides diet and exercize. For example, sleeping disorders are associated with obesity, and I would expect that sleep deprivation would be as well. Malnutrition also causes changes in your body so that at a latter point when you do have access to food your body will store more fat.

Genetics are also responsible for your appetite. A person with one set of genes will eat less simply because he feels less hungry. There are actually some genetic sequences that are known to directly effect how "hungry" a person feels.

A standard review of the scientific literature shows that obesity is not a function of being lazy or eating too much.

Is Fatness a Function of Willpower?

It is critical to point out at this juncture that the research does
not point to gluttony or sloth as the primary cause of fatness.
The majority of research evidence supports the notion that
body weight is the result of genetic and metabolic factors and
is only modestly related to dietary habits. For instance, in an
adoption study, Stunkard and his colleagues (Stunkard et al.,
1986) found that the body fat of children was highly correlated
with the biological parents' body fat, but uncorrelated with the
adoptive parents' body fat. To directly examine the overeating
hypothesis, Garrow (1974) reviewed 13 studies of body weight
and food intake, and in 12 of these, obese subjects ate the same
amount or less than normal weight subjects.

In addition, a number of studies have shown that a variety of
physiological factors make dieting both difficult and ineffective.
For example, after dieting, energy metabolism becomes increas-
ingly efficient (Brownell, Greenwood, Stellar, & Shrager, 1986)
and high-caloric foods become increasingly palatable (Nisbett,
1972). In short, the belief that fat people got that way primarily
from overeating and a lack of self-control does not properly rep-
resent the scientific data.

Instead, I propose the notion that holding antifat attitudes
serves a value-expressive function (Katz, 1960), reinforcing a
worldview consistent with the Protestant work ethic, self-deter-
mination, a belief in a just world, and the notion that people
get what they deserve. If ideology leads a person to chronically
attribute controllable causality to others, he or she will tend to
blame fat people for their weight and stigmatize them for it.

A similar argument has been made for racism in particular.
Many Whites hold Blacks accountable for their relatively poor
economic status (Ryan, 1971). The belief that individuals in dis-
advantaged groups are responsible for any negative aspects of
their situation is known as the "ultimate attribution error" (Pet-
tigrew, 1979). Several researchers have shown relatively consis-
tent individual differences in causal attributions (e.g., Ander-
son, 1983; Peterson & Seligman, 1984). These consistent attri-
butional styles might in turn lead to the derogation of any
disadvantaged group.

It's interesting that some of you are talking about fat people eating a lot as if it's "discussing" or something, "similar to smoking". Fat people on average eat less than everyone else so if a fat person shopping at a grocery store is "disgusting" why isn't a skinny person buying food "disgusting"; the skinny person is most likely buying more food than the fat person. To me it just seems like some of your are unnecessarily intolerant of fat people.

[NCK MIZ]

I'm not talking about a "set point". You are putting words in my mouth. Genes interact with the environment so there are plenty of environmental factors that effect body weight, besides diet and exercize. For example, sleeping disorders are associated with obesity, and I would expect that sleep deprivation would be as well. Malnutrition also causes changes in your body so that at a latter point when you do have access to food your body will store more fat.

Genetics are also responsible for your appetite. A person with one set of genes will eat less simply because he feels less hungry. There are actually some genetic sequences that are known to directly effect how "hungry" a person feels.

A standard review of the scientific literature shows that obesity is not a function of being lazy or eating too much.It's interesting that some of you are talking about fat people eating a lot as if it's "discussing" or something, "similar to smoking". Fat people on average eat less than everyone else so if a fat person shopping at a grocery store is "disgusting" why isn't a skinny person buying food "disgusting"; the skinny person is most likely buying more food than the fat person. To me it just seems like some of your are unnecessarily intolerant of fat people.

where is your evidence fat people eat less?? You are making this up. You continue to cite a psychological study that cites a book, that says studies have found "they don't eat more during the time of data collection", how does that validate your claim that they eat less?

Garrow (1974) reviewed 13 studies of body weight
and food intake, and in 12 of these, obese subjects ate the same
amount or less than normal weight subjects.

How was this data collected?? Self-report? I would say that in some of these studies that would be a valid assumption.

Also no one is arguing that environment does not interact with genetics, however you are saying genetics is the sole contributor to obesity. You are essentially arguing that if someone is born to be obese no amount of proper food intake/ exercise can change this. So basically they have no control over their bodyweight. If this is the case how are all these individuals on the Biggest Loser miraculously losing 200+ lbs? I mean they were genetically set to be obese, no amount of environmental change, should be able to fix that. right?

[anonymous]

where is your evidence fat people eat less?? You are making this up. You continue to cite a psychological study that cites a book, that says studies have found "they don't eat more during the time of data collection", how does that validate your claim that they eat less?

Garrow (1974) reviewed 13 studies of body weight
and food intake, and in 12 of these, obese subjects ate the same
amount or less than normal weight subjects.

How was this data collected?? Self-report? I would say that in some of these studies that would be a valid assumption.

Seriously, what is this nonsense? Obese people consume 1000's of excess calories a day from soda, chips and taco bell, that is why they are fat. Anyone who'd ever known an obese person will know they either sneak food, drink gallons of soda or just go hog wild and don't care who's watching.

Environmental stresses can play hell with your endocrine system, and jack up cortisol but that's maybe MAYBE a 5-10lb absolute max 'allowance' of fatness for a regular person.

As a matter of interest, why is a guy who weighs 127lbs defending the obese so much?

[1veedo]

where is your evidence fat people eat less?? You are making this up. You continue to cite a psychological study that cites a book, that says studies have found "they don't eat more during the time of data collection", how does that validate your claim that they eat less?

Garrow (1974) reviewed 13 studies of body weight
and food intake, and in 12 of these, obese subjects ate the same
amount or less than normal weight subjects.

How was this data collected?? Self-report? I would say that in some of these studies that would be a valid assumption.

You can review the 13 studies yourself if you wish. Either way it isn't too awfully import here. Other studies indicate that genetics are important in deciding someone's appetite; some people's genes actually make them feel hungrier than others despite similar food intake.

Also no one is arguing that environment does not interact with genetics, however you are saying genetics is the sole contributor to obesity. You are essentially arguing that if someone is born to be obese no amount of proper food intake/ exercise can change this. So basically they have no control over their bodyweight.

No, I am not. Nice straw man though. Also nice lack of scientific support for your position.

[user5145]

Genetics and Biology being the leading cause of obesity is a complete and utter crock of ****. A small minority of people genuinely have disorders that lead directly to obesity, but the great majority are that way because of inactivity and overeating. Our genetic characteristics have not changed to that large of an extent in the best three decades. Obesity is a direct result of societies increasing emphasis on technological entertainment and decreased emphasis on physical activity. Obesity rates are increasing throughout the world, and I'll be damned if 60% of America is overweight and/or obese because of genetics.

[brandon92]

Did not read everyone's post sorry if I copy anyone.

Just quit letting them be ''the norm''
Obese are getting handicap stickers and ****. Thats ridiculous. These are the things that lead to MORE problems. WTF? You don't exercise, here's a free pass to do less than you already don't do. You can park your fatass up front, because we would hate for you to burn a calorie or two walking the extra 15 feet.

You don't have to control the foods people eat, just control HOW MUCH they eat. Some people can handle the RESPONSIBILITIES of being a human being. As in, not eating fast food all day every day. Honestly, I think most (at least the ones who are at fault) deserve nothing like what theyre getting. They need a good ass kicking.

If you are obese, and this offended you: GOOD. now burn that handicap sticker and walk...you gotta start somewhere.

[user5145]

If you are questioning the fact that obese people eat like ****, go to your local Wal-Mart, sit by the cash registers, and watch people, note their size, and then look at what they have in their shopping carts.

[NCK MIZ]

You can review the 13 studies yourself if you wish. Either way it isn't too awfully import here. Other studies indicate that genetics are important in deciding someone's appetite; some people's genes actually make them feel hungrier than others despite similar food intake.No, I am not. Nice straw man though. Also nice lack of scientific support for your position.

You don't cite an article and then use those citations within the article to defend your position. Try citing an article that cites other articles in a paper, you will be ridiculed. In order for you to prove your point, you would need to read those studies and then cite them directly, since you did not provide a source of these studies, but instead cited a journal that then cites a book as a source, you do not have an argument.

Here is some scientific evidence to back up my argument that just because obese individuals do not eat more than normal weight individuals when the study is being conducted does not mean they have not eaten more in the past.

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 44, 779-787, Copyright ? 1986 by The American Society for Clinical Nutrition, Inc

"Socially determined factors such as a high calorie diet act in a permissive way in the development of obesity although the caloric intake of obese individuals may be no different from that of nonobese peers."

Food consumption (METHOD)
Burke’s (25) Dietary History Method as adapted by
Cubeau (26) and validated by Pequignot (27) was used to
record food consumption. Information was obtained by
experienced dieticians from the children themselves, their
mothers, and whenever appropriate from school cafeteria
attendants.
Food intake was estimated from the average weekly
consumption of 40 food items with allowances being made
for seasonal variations.For each food consumed, the weight
of a serving was estimated as well as the weekly frequency
of consumption; this value, in grams consumed per day,
was recorded for each of the 40 items on the questionnaire.
Only items consumed at least once every 2 wk were included
in the analysis.

There you have it, most studies that look at differences between obese and normal weight individuals use self-report data as there DV. Self-report data is extremely flawed, especially when asking an overweight individual how much they ate.


Also here you go....

"In other words, the daily diet that is typical of a social
group challenges the regulating capacities of
all individuals in the groups; the higher the
caloric value ofthe current diet, the larger the
number ofindividuals who fail to regulate because
of their constitutional features or particular
lifestyle. These individuals will fail to
maintain a normal weight although their feeding
behavior cannot be shown to be different
from that of their social or cultural peers." (Rolland-Cachera & Bellisle, 1986, pp. 785).

"A larger proportion of obese
subjects appear in groups where a large daily
intake is common or where overweight is relatively
well accepted (31) not because “genes
associated with obesity occurs unevenly across
the social spectrum” as remarked by Garrow
(41)" (Rolland-Cachera & Bellisle, 1986, pp. 786).

[anonymous]

as an aside, I just got back from Costco, which is apparently the place where they hide the obese here in west LA. I counted multiple 'doublewides' riding scooters, which is something I haven't seen since I lived in the Midwest

[matcoon]

Ok i definetly think some of you in here are taking this hated towards fat people WAY too far.

I don't really know what to say to those who think genetics don't influence physiology but even if genetics didn't play a role you still shouldn't have this attitue towards overweight/obese individuals.

You say its because they eat to much and exercise to little as if it is that simple. Obviously overwieght people know they need to do those things, now the question is then why don't they do those things?

You just say they eat to much without ever thinking about what the reasons for them eatting to much may be. Cost of food, preperation of food, knowing what to cook and how to cook it all play a role. Extremely busy lifestyles also play a very large role as Americans are also on the go, we tend to fit more into a day than we really should and eating properly is sometimes a sacrific that some must bake.

But here is the biggest problem, you are discriminating based on looks, tell me how this is any different than racism. And just like racism the negative views towards fat people comes from ingnorance and intolerance of others who are different from you.

I've seen some in here say this problem is unque to America which it is not. People's weight is based mostly on what people eat, yes. Now guess what many people's diets are based on, culture. Look at how we refer to different types of foods: chinese, mexican, italian, seafood...These is classified based on location, and guess what, we do see a different in the typical body types of people from each of these area's. People eat what they eat based on culture.

Also to go with culture people eat what they eat based on religion. Some won't eat certain types of foods or follow types of diets beased on religous beliefs.

Within the US alone we see difference in obesity rates between different race of people. Latinos, African Americans, Caucasians, and Asians all have different rates of obesity. Now can someone give me a reason to explain this if not cultural beliefs/practices?

So seeing that wieght is influenced by what we eat, and what we eat is influnced by culture how is this any different than racism? Intolerance and looking down on fat people is just another form of bigotry, i think some of you in here need to think twice about some of things you have said.

[NCK MIZ]

Ok i definetly think some of you in here are taking this hated towards fat people WAY too far.

I don't really know what to say to those who think genetics don't influence physiology but even if genetics didn't play a role you still shouldn't have this attitue towards overweight/obese individuals.

You say its because they eat to much and exercise to little as if it is that simple. Obviously overwieght people know they need to do those things, now the question is then why don't they do those things?

You just say they eat to much without ever thinking about what the reasons for them eatting to much may be. Cost of food, preperation of food, knowing what to cook and how to cook it all play a role. Extremely busy lifestyles also play a very large role as Americans are also on the go, we tend to fit more into a day than we really should and eating properly is sometimes a sacrific that some must bake.

But here is the biggest problem, you are discriminating based on looks, tell me how this is any different than racism. And just like racism the negative views towards fat people comes from ingnorance and intolerance of others who are different from you.

I've seen some in here say this problem is unque to America which it is not. People's weight is based mostly on what people eat, yes. Now guess what many people's diets are based on, culture. Look at how we refer to different types of foods: chinese, mexican, italian, seafood...These is classified based on location, and guess what, we do see a different in the typical body types of people from each of these area's. People eat what they eat based on culture.

Also to go with culture people eat what they eat based on religion. Some won't eat certain types of foods or follow types of diets beased on religous beliefs.

Within the US alone we see difference in obesity rates between different race of people. Latinos, African Americans, Caucasians, and Asians all have different rates of obesity. Now can someone give me a reason to explain this if not cultural beliefs/practices?

So seeing that wieght is influenced by what we eat, and what we eat is influnced by culture how is this any different than racism? Intolerance and looking down on fat people is just another form of bigotry, i think some of you in here need to think twice about some of things you have said.

I agree with alot of points you make and I don't think anyone is arguing that genetics does not play a role in weight, however most people are arguing that with a proper diet and exercise genetics can at most make a person overweight, not extremely obese.

While you make some valid arguments that compare the bigotry towards obese individuals as similar to racism I think you are missing some key differences and the reason for this thread being in this section. Being another race does not place a burdon on society (ie. if you are black you as an individual are no larger of a burdon on society than a white person). However obese individuals are raising our healthcare costs, hurting our organizations (productivity, attendance, worker's comp. claims, etc.) and many other things. Thus they are affecting society as a whole.

If someone formed a religion that believed they should live off the government and work was a waste of time, would you support this religion? Do you think everyone in society should tolerate this religion? I know it is an extreme example, just something to think about.

P.S. I in no way hate fat people, I do believe they have a problem and need help, I do however get upset when they refuse help and continue the exact same eating habits and exercise patterns that got them where they are in the first place and then expect healthcare to pay for their adult on-set diabetes medications, etc.

[SlammaJamma]

Within the US alone we see difference in obesity rates between different race of people. Latinos, African Americans, Caucasians, and Asians all have different rates of obesity. Now can someone give me a reason to explain this if not cultural beliefs/practices?

So seeing that wieght is influenced by what we eat, and what we eat is influnced by culture how is this any different than racism? Intolerance and looking down on fat people is just another form of bigotry, i think some of you in here need to think twice about some of things you have said.

LOL

Get that flame suit on broseph.

Seriously though, yes it's mostly due to culture, but how is that any excuse? So is your point that, because it is culturally ingrained, people are absolved of responsibility for their own health? This may be a valid excuse for some people in the US (ie, people who live in poverty and have no access to information or can't afford to eat well), but for a large portion it's not.

[matcoon]

I agree with alot of points you make and I don't think anyone is arguing that genetics does not play a role in weight, however most people are arguing that with a proper diet and exercise genetics can at most make a person overweight, not extremely obese.

While you make some valid arguments that compare the bigotry towards obese individuals as similar to racism I think you are missing some key differences and the reason for this thread being in this section. Being another race does not place a burdon on society (ie. if you are black you as an individual are no larger of a burdon on society than a white person). However obese individuals are raising our healthcare costs, hurting our organizations (productivity, attendance, worker's comp. claims, etc.) and many other things. Thus they are affecting society as a whole.

If someone formed a religion that believed they should live off the government and work was a waste of time, would you support this religion? Do you think everyone in society should tolerate this religion? I know it is an extreme example, just something to think about.

P.S. I in no way hate fat people, I do believe they have a problem and need help, I do however get upset when they refuse help and continue the exact same eating habits and exercise patterns that got them where they are in the first place and then expect healthcare to pay for their adult on-set diabetes medications, etc.

Well it's easy to blame overweight/obese people for the burden that they place on the rest of society but is that really where the blame should go? If we didn't have healthcare set up in a way where we all have to help pay for each other's personal choices would you still care if people are fat?

I said earlier i don't care if people are fat as long as it doesn't affect me. Now i do realize that other's being fat in reality does affect me but should this negativity really be placed on fat people or should it actually be placed on the healthcare system? It seems like people are saying how they don't like fat people because they end up having to pay more money to help with their medical costs. So if the real reason comes down to money then why not say that? Why say you dislike fat people instead of saying you dislike having to help pay for the cost of fat people? Seems like the dislike is shifted to fat people when i should be on the system we have.

Still, even though we have to help pay more because people are fat that is no reason to dislike them anymore than anyone else who uses medical insurance for anything else, why single out fat people? What about people who drink, smoke, do drugs, etc and as a result increase medical expenses? Now those aren't the best example because people who participate in those things also get called out on there lifestyle choices.

But what about other medical expenses? Take for example someone who broke there leg legs say skiing. Well we all contribute to the medical costs to help that person but i could use basically the same arguments. I shouldn't have to help pay for them, it was there choice to go skiing. Skiing can put you at a higher risk for injuries, it was their choice to take that risk why should i have to help pay to fix their problem? I mean they could have just stayed home where it is safe and then they wouldn't have broken there leg. It would be like saying i hate all skiier's because it puts them at a higher risk for having an injury that will result in me sharing in the expense for their treatment.

You could apply this to anything, people that pay sports get injured more than people that don't play sports, should i dislike people who play sports then because it may cost me more money? Not all people who are fat are going to need medical help so why the discrimination towards all fat people? Again this is essentially a form of racism. You don't know the person, why they are overweight, or if they even go to the doctor so how is it fair to group them all together?

A lot of the hate towards fat people is misdirected on them when i should instead be on what the real problem is: our health insurance system.

[SaviorSix]

Ok i definetly think some of you in here are taking this hated towards fat people WAY too far.

I don't really know what to say to those who think genetics don't influence physiology but even if genetics didn't play a role you still shouldn't have this attitue towards overweight/obese individuals.

You say its because they eat to much and exercise to little as if it is that simple. Obviously overwieght people know they need to do those things, now the question is then why don't they do those things?

You just say they eat to much without ever thinking about what the reasons for them eatting to much may be. Cost of food, preperation of food, knowing what to cook and how to cook it all play a role. Extremely busy lifestyles also play a very large role as Americans are also on the go, we tend to fit more into a day than we really should and eating properly is sometimes a sacrific that some must bake.

But here is the biggest problem, you are discriminating based on looks, tell me how this is any different than racism. And just like racism the negative views towards fat people comes from ingnorance and intolerance of others who are different from you.

I've seen some in here say this problem is unque to America which it is not. People's weight is based mostly on what people eat, yes. Now guess what many people's diets are based on, culture. Look at how we refer to different types of foods: chinese, mexican, italian, seafood...These is classified based on location, and guess what, we do see a different in the typical body types of people from each of these area's. People eat what they eat based on culture.

Also to go with culture people eat what they eat based on religion. Some won't eat certain types of foods or follow types of diets beased on religous beliefs.

Within the US alone we see difference in obesity rates between different race of people. Latinos, African Americans, Caucasians, and Asians all have different rates of obesity. Now can someone give me a reason to explain this if not cultural beliefs/practices?

So seeing that wieght is influenced by what we eat, and what we eat is influnced by culture how is this any different than racism? Intolerance and looking down on fat people is just another form of bigotry, i think some of you in here need to think twice about some of things you have said.

All I see is: "excuses, excuses, excuses" These are the excuses that lead to the obesity epidemic that we have now. Nobody takes personal responsibility - it's everybody elses fault for not teaching the fatties how to eat properly

Oh, and by the way....pick up a dictionary and look up the term 'racism' when you get a chance

[1veedo]

A small minority of people genuinely have disorders that lead directly to obesity

We're not talking about a disorder. Simple genetics influence things like appetite and metabolism. Presumably the evolutionary advantage is that if food is scarce, when it is available it is to your advantage to eat as much as possible and store as much as possible in fat. This simply makes sense from a biological perspective, so it's no wonder these genes are with us today.

but the great majority are that way because of inactivity and overeating.

Specifically, the research does not show this to be the case. If you have some peer-review indicating that this, specifically, is the primary cause for obesity then post it. Otherwise, don't make things up.

You don't cite an article and then use those citations within the article to defend your position. Try citing an article that cites other articles in a paper, you will be ridiculed.

I'm citing one article and pointing out that its position is well defended. Basically, you want to ignore this research completely. If there were a quicker way to get ridiculed I think simply ignoring the science would be one.

Here is some scientific evidence to back up my argument that just because obese individuals do not eat more than normal weight individuals when the study is being conducted does not mean they have not eaten more in the past.

Can you prove that the reasons for this are simply gluttony, and not influenced by genetics? If not, you have no argument here. The issue being disused isn't necessarily the direct cause of obesity, just that overeating and laziness is not usually a primary cause. If your genes make you more hungry and give you a larger stomach then it kind of puts you at a disadvantage. You can eat the same amount as person B but still be hungry.

[frankenstein]

better to be fat and strong then skinny and weak

How so? Lots of fat people are very weak, especially for their large size. They also are a burden on an untold number of people in their every day lives, let alone the burden they place on health care and lots of public places that try to accommodate them with bigger chairs, doorways, etc. The obese also have virtually no sex lives and can't complete ordinary tasks very well.

I have more respect for the 6ft 150 lb dude than the 6ft 300 lb dude automatically.

[grup910]

Is it wrong to suggest that with the rising unemployment and increasing obesity, we give them jobs riding stationary bicycles to generate energy?

Serious, I saw a segment about some company in Seattle I think it was that had their employees ride stationary bikes on Earth Day to generate power for their office. They were able to run all the computers and enough lights to run everything with no problem. And that was only a couple dozen people, taking shifts. We have millions unemployed! And a lot of them are obese. They would slim down, we would get the power -- win-win!

[NCK MIZ]

We're not talking about a disorder. Simple genetics influence things like appetite and metabolism. Presumably the evolutionary advantage is that if food is scarce, when it is available it is to your advantage to eat as much as possible and store as much as possible in fat. This simply makes sense from a biological perspective, so it's no wonder these genes are with us today.Specifically, the research does not show this to be the case. If you have some peer-review indicating that this, specifically, is the primary cause for obesity then post it. Otherwise, don't make things up.I'm citing one article and pointing out that its position is well defended. Basically, you want to ignore this research completely. If there were a quicker way to get ridiculed I think simply ignoring the science would be one.

Can you prove that the reasons for this are simply gluttony, and not influenced by genetics? If not, you have no argument here. The issue being disused isn't necessarily the direct cause of obesity, just that overeating and laziness is not usually a primary cause. If your genes make you more hungry and give you a larger stomach then it kind of puts you at a disadvantage. You can eat the same amount as person B but still be hungry.

Can I prove that?? No, but has anyone proven anything?? I realize you are young, but one can never prove anything, they can only fail to disprove. The citations you use have not proven anything they have only found evidence to support their position, when you realize science is finding evidence to support your position and stop looking at peer reviewed journals as the absolute truth you will have come a long way.

The problem with all the data that support the idea that obese individuals report being more hungry than normal weight individuals is the fact that they are already obese when the studies are being conducted. It only makes logical sense that someone who weighs more would report being more hungry than someone who does not weigh more.

If I did a study having one subject be a 125 lb male and the other a 225 lb bodybuilder. I feed them the exact same diet, 1600 calories. I ask them who feels more hungry at the end of the day? What do you think the results would be?

You have yet to cite evidence that genetics is the MAIN contributor to becoming obese (Which is your stance). All your evidence points to the fact that genetics is a large contributor in remaining obese (You will not find an argument from me here).


Once again, from a study that actually looks at differences between obese and normal weight individuals from a clincial nutrition journal (not a psychology journal). Here is the conclusion drawn from the results.


"Socially determined factors such as a high calorie diet act in a permissive way in the development of obesity although the caloric intake of obese individuals may be no different from that of nonobese peers."


The data from this study shows there is a difference in socioeconomic status and rates of obesity. In order for your genetics stance to be true you would have to believe that individuals in different socioeconomic classes have different rates of the genes that would make one more likely to become obese and that is obsurd.

[KRANE]

If you are questioning the fact that obese people eat like ****, go to your local Wal-Mart, sit by the cash registers, and watch people, note their size, and then look at what they have in their shopping carts.

I've never seen a fat person that didn't eat like a hog, then go take the elevator to go down one floor. The worst part is, I'm talking about my own family!

That's a pretty negative view of fat people. This is a pretty common view though (especially on this forum) and i find it rather sad. I mean there is personal responsibility on their end but can't you have some compassion i definitely don' think it is entirely their fault and definitely not in all cases.

These people don't need compassion, they need a lock and chain around their refrigerator!

What about people who have been fat since they were kids because of how their parents raised them?

Easily changed. I did it!

What about the role of genes and the influence they have in some cases?

Minor at best.

At a certain point overweight/obese people respond to hormones differently and no longer get the feeling of satiety.

Also easily changed. We're not talking about physiology these are psychological factors.

How about people who have injuries or disabilities that don't allow them to exercise or cause them to put on extra weight?

Eat less!

How about poor people who can't afford healthier foods?

Not possible in the U.S. Typically the most unhealthy foods are also the more expensive.

People with jobs and children don't always have time to prepare a healthy meal, fast for is more convenient and cheaper.

It' may be more convenient, but it's NOT cheaper.

There are lots of other reasons that go into the making of overweight people i just don't think its fair to automatically place the blame completely on them.

There may be many more reason, but none of them are significant. As long as the have a choice when when they open their mouth to eat, the blame will remain solely on them!

I still don't understand where the negativity towards them comes from too. Obviously its not good if someone is overweight, using a scooter, buying cigarettes...but why do you care so much?[/quote]He already told you: because it take away from those who really need them!

I really don't understand how this is much different from racism.

If that's true, then you have a lot of learning to do. Unlike losing (or gaining weight) you "race" cannot be changed.

It's not like people choose to be healthy, want to be overweight, look like a fat person, feel bad about themselves, and have lots of health problems.

Rather, it's just the result of their laziness and gluttony.

Obviously there is more to it than those people are just lazy.

It is...they eat too much too.

Do you think people really want to be fat and lazy or could there be more to it?

More too it? Like what? They want to eat constantly and stay then and healthy? It doesn't work like that.

[matcoon]

I've never seen a fat person that didn't eat like a hog, then go take the elevator to go down one floor. The worst part is, I'm talking about my own family!These people don't need compassion, they need a lock and chain around their refrigerator!

Easily changed. I did it!Minor at best.
Also easily changed. We're not talking about physiology these are psychological factors.
Eat less!

Actually i was talking about physiology, more specifically endocrinology. In short leptin is a hormone that signals that your full, obese people are found to have high levels of it circulating but become resitant to its effects. This makes sense in an evolutionary sense. The body is trying to make itself store more food which would ahve been very benifical to our ancestors when they lived in the wild. Consumming high amounts of fructose also can help lead to the development of this problem.

Also what about if a person has to take a medication that causes them to gain weight? This is a lot more common than you think.

Not possible in the U.S. Typically the most unhealthy foods are also the more expensive.It' may be more convenient, but it's NOT cheaper.There may be many more reason, but none of them are significant. As long as the have a choice when when they open their mouth to eat, the blame will remain solely on them!

I'm sorry but price per calories unhealthy food is obvisouly way less expensive you can't argue with that. Just look at how many calories are in those fast food meals and there super cheap.

I still don't understand where the negativity towards them comes from too. Obviously its not good if someone is overweight, using a scooter, buying cigarettes...but why do you care so much?

He already told you: because it take away from those who really need them!If that's true, then you have a lot of learning to do. Unlike losing (or gaining weight) you "race" cannot be changed.

Rather, it's just the result of their laziness and gluttony. It is...they eat too much too.More too it? Like what? They want to eat constantly and stay then and healthy? It doesn't work like that.[/QUOTE]

Well first of all i don't believe in telling other people how to live their life it is still there choice. Now looking down on them for being fat for whatever reason it may be is still a horrible thing.

A lot of people really do look down on fat people and unlike while racism it is usually thought of as ok. Just look at all these comments towards fat people, we all know what would happen if those same type of comments were said towards some race.