THE......Definitive Runner's Thread!

[whatevergirl]

If you've run fasted, that distance, or close to it, during your training ...then, it probably won't be a problem to do so tomorrow, I'd imagine. Hope it goes well, whatever you choose to do.

[IrishPilot]

1:52:00. In the books! Besides crowd hang ups, only stopped once (beer and Baconaid stand!). Incredible amount of fun.

[mcours2006]

Nice going, Irish. I've only run a race once, and that was a HM. Lots of fun.

[whatevergirl]

Good job, Irish Pilot! Nice time!

[BC02]

biked 9 miles ran 1.5

[MrBungle11]

1:52:00. In the books! Besides crowd hang ups, only stopped once (beer and Baconaid stand!). Incredible amount of fun.

Awesome time for a first HM!

Only clocked up 15km in the past week so far...I need to work out a better time to run other than the small window between 5:30am-6am so I can run longer.

[Plateauplower]

3.9 miles this morning on the treadmill 2% incline (thunderstorms outside). Felt good...

[euronewbie]

Slowly getting back to it. 10.2 miles so far this week plus a 40 mile bike. Hope to put in a longish run this weekend and see how it goes. I'd be happy finishing up with 25 for the week.

[ajdahlheimer]

3.5 miles yesterday. Still getting over my cold, but I think forcing myself to run actually speeds up the recovery.

[FitnessFan76]

I was wondering, does the whole progressive overload thing only really count when you're just starting out your fitness, as opposed to building it back up? Before I started lifting, I was able to run for 15km - then I focused too much on weights, leading to my CV fitness going out of the window - I couldn't even manage 15 minutes. Recently however, it's ramped up really quickly - for example I did 30mins one week, 40mins the next week, and then an hour the week after. This week I still did an hour but felt as though I could've carried on for ten or twenty more minutes. Is it OK to continue rapid progress like this until I reach my previous level of fitness and then probably remain around that level as I know that too much cardio impacts on muscle?

One other thing - if I do two runs of approx 10km per week, will that impact upon my muscle tissue significantly? Right now I'm on a cut which should be over in the next two months.

[ajdahlheimer]

FF76--I think people who put on muscle from lifting and then try to get back into running later on forget that they added weight (even if it was good weight/muscle). It's simply more to haul around when running. I ran a sub-6 minute mile (5:58) as a senior in high school at about 200 pounds. I don't think I could run sub-7 minute mile today, even though I am a lot stronger/muscular than back then. Just too heavy to run as fast, even though my lung capacity feels great.

[mcours2006]

I was wondering, does the whole progressive overload thing only really count when you're just starting out your fitness, as opposed to building it back up? Before I started lifting, I was able to run for 15km - then I focused too much on weights, leading to my CV fitness going out of the window - I couldn't even manage 15 minutes. Recently however, it's ramped up really quickly - for example I did 30mins one week, 40mins the next week, and then an hour the week after. This week I still did an hour but felt as though I could've carried on for ten or twenty more minutes. Is it OK to continue rapid progress like this until I reach my previous level of fitness and then probably remain around that level as I know that too much cardio impacts on muscle?

Can't comment on how the cardio will impact on muscle gain, but as far as progressing with your running after a layoff, it depends on how long the layoff was. You likely have not lost all your aerobic fitness, but do be careful on ramping up the mileage too quickly. Going from 15 to 60-minute runs in a few weeks is asking for trouble. Your aerobic system may be able to handle to load, but your musculo-skeletal system may not. That's how you get injured.

[mcours2006]

One other thing - if I do two runs of approx 10km per week, will that impact upon my muscle tissue significantly? Right now I'm on a cut which should be over in the next two months.

All right, I will comment. Take it for what it's worth from one individual, but my weekly mileage is around 45 miles (that's 72km). I've maintained this mileage for a number of years. I've also maintained my bodyweight for a number of years, and likely similar body composition. But I do lift heavy most of the time. It is possible to run and maintain muscle mass.

[FitnessFan76]

Can't comment on how the cardio will impact on muscle gain, but as far as progressing with your running after a layoff, it depends on how long the layoff was. You likely have not lost all your aerobic fitness, but do be careful on ramping up the mileage too quickly. Going from 15 to 60-minute runs in a few weeks is asking for trouble. Your aerobic system may be able to handle to load, but your musculo-skeletal system may not. That's how you get injured.

Thanks for the heads up - I was on 30min runs for some time, then it began to ramp up. Ok I'll either back it off for a bit, maybe 40min or just keep it as it is for a month or so.

[mcours2006]

Perhaps due to your lifting background and stronger bones, muscles, connective tissues, etc. you might be better able to handle the stress of 60-minute runs. But just remember in that hour you're hitting the hard pavement about 10,000 times! That's 5000 each side with the force 4x your body weight. That's a lot of pounding.

[whatevergirl]

Ran most of this week, gotta update with stats. Nice to see everyone getting their runs in.

[FitnessFan76]

Perhaps due to your lifting background and stronger bones, muscles, connective tissues, etc. you might be better able to handle the stress of 60-minute runs. But just remember in that hour you're hitting the hard pavement about 10,000 times! That's 5000 each side with the force 4x your body weight. That's a lot of pounding.

Yeah, that's a good point. I always wear knee supports on both knees when running or squatting; I did hurt my knee a couple of years back but since wearing the supports, I've had no knee issues when running.

My new girlfriend wants to get into jogging as well; she wants to lose some weight and improve her fitness. I'm going to start her on the C25k plan; I don't know of any previous knee issues but should she wear knee supports from the start as well to avoid the chance of knee issues? And what's your take on the debate about requiring different running shoes depending on the arch of your foot (I require stability shoes apparently). Since she'll only be running very short distances on the C25k at first, will any old pair of running shoes do for now? Of course I'll also be helping her out with resistance work.

Thanks for your help mate.

[mcours2006]

Yeah, that's a good point. I always wear knee supports on both knees when running or squatting; I did hurt my knee a couple of years back but since wearing the supports, I've had no knee issues when running.

My new girlfriend wants to get into jogging as well; she wants to lose some weight and improve her fitness. I'm going to start her on the C25k plan; I don't know of any previous knee issues but should she wear knee supports from the start as well to avoid the chance of knee issues? And what's your take on the debate about requiring different running shoes depending on the arch of your foot (I require stability shoes apparently). Since she'll only be running very short distances on the C25k at first, will any old pair of running shoes do for now? Of course I'll also be helping her out with resistance work.

Thanks for your help mate.

The main thing is to not try to do too much too soon. Do a few miles a week and see how the body feels. Keep that mileage for few weeks, then back off for a week. Then add a few miles the next week. It could just be lengthening a run by a few more minutes. Much like weight training, you have to stress the system, then give it rest to let it recover properly.

Conventional wisdom says that you should not increase your mileage more than 10% per week, and then only for a few weeks in a row. But it's just a guideline. Pay close attention to what your feeling, and when in doubt do less, not more.

As far as stability shoes goes, I am not completely convinced it's not a marketing ploy by the shoe companies. I wear stability shoes, but I started out with neutral ones and I can't tell the difference. I've put over a 1000 miles on some pairs of shoes. But perhaps as a relative beginner runner you should wear the shoes with some arch support just to be safe. I'm just one anonymous guy on the internet giving advice. You can take my words for what they're worth. :-)

[FitnessFan76]

Thanks, you've been very helpful. I would say I'm outside the beginner stage as I was up to 15km before I started lifting. My girlfriend on the other hand is pretty much a beginner so will be taking it easy - hence choosing the C25k. In the first week I think it goes run 1min, walk 90secs repeat 8 times and do three times a week.

[mcours2006]

Thanks, you've been very helpful. I would say I'm outside the beginner stage as I was up to 15km before I started lifting. My girlfriend on the other hand is pretty much a beginner so will be taking it easy - hence choosing the C25k. In the first week I think it goes run 1min, walk 90secs repeat 8 times and do three times a week.

Yes, I was referring to your G/F as a relative new beginner. Walking breaks are good to break up the effort, especially for beginners who've never run before. You'll want to start lengthening those reps, and eventually eliminate them altogether. You don't want to become dependent on them as it teaches your body to expect these breaks after a certain period of running.

Good luck.

[FitnessFan76]

Yes, I was referring to your G/F as a relative new beginner. Walking breaks are good to break up the effort, especially for beginners who've never run before. You'll want to start lengthening those reps, and eventually eliminate them altogether. You don't want to become dependent on them as it teaches your body to expect these breaks after a certain period of running.

Good luck.

Thanks. That's why I've chosen the C25k because it starts you slowly, with walk breaks between runs that eventually become shorter and shorter in comparison to the running periods. By the penultimate week, it's designed to have you running fifteen minutes with a walk break, and then another fifteen minutes; the last week is a full thirty minute run. All I have to do now is find a printable version of the programme! I used to have a copy in Men's Health mag (yeah I know...) which I've since chucked away; damnation. If I'm lucky, I have a copy on my external drive somewhere.

For me, the danger is 'the Zone'. Last time I hurt my knee, I was so in 'The Zone' that I didn't listen to the clear 'go home you idiot' signs... now I make a point of consciously monitoring any twinges that may come along especially when in 'The Zone'.

[JRT6]

I find cross training helps new runners too because you get your cardio in while giving your joints and muscles a break from all the new demands.

[mcours2006]

I find cross training helps new runners too because you get your cardio in while giving your joints and muscles a break from all the new demands.

True. And I find that lifting weights also helps with staving off injury. That and just being lucky.

[virtualbrian]

I'm a long time runner who at one point in my running "career" was plagued by injury for many years. I've had it all. Runners Knee, IT band syndrome, achilles tendonitis, and plantar fasciitis. During all of those injuries I was always trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I mean, I knew guys who were running double the weekly mileage that I was able to do.

It all changed when I read the book Chi Running. This book literally changed my life. It turns out my running form was completely wrong. I started to make minor tweaks and changes to my form. It was like I was a brand new runner again but I took my time and eventually totally changed my running form.

Since reading that book I'm proud to say that my injuries are gone. I get aches and pains from time to time but nothing like before.

When I was in my injury phase I'd run the local 5 and 10Ks. Since reading Chi Running I've run two marathons. The San Diego Rock and Roll Marathon and the Pikes Peak Marathon and many more half marathons.

My advice to any runner is pick up the book Chi Running. You'll be glad you did.

[whatevergirl]

Since starting my own business, my schedule is my own (clients come first though), so today, already got my run in. 6.25 miles, feels good!

Hope everyone here has a wonderful weekend! Make it fun.

[ajdahlheimer]

I'm a long time runner who at one point in my running "career" was plagued by injury for many years. I've had it all. Runners Knee, IT band syndrome, achilles tendonitis, and plantar fasciitis. During all of those injuries I was always trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I mean, I knew guys who were running double the weekly mileage that I was able to do.

It all changed when I read the book Chi Running. This book literally changed my life. It turns out my running form was completely wrong. I started to make minor tweaks and changes to my form. It was like I was a brand new runner again but I took my time and eventually totally changed my running form.

Since reading that book I'm proud to say that my injuries are gone. I get aches and pains from time to time but nothing like before.

When I was in my injury phase I'd run the local 5 and 10Ks. Since reading Chi Running I've run two marathons. The San Diego Rock and Roll Marathon and the Pikes Peak Marathon and many more half marathons.

My advice to any runner is pick up the book Chi Running. You'll be glad you did.

What kind of tweaks did you make, if you don't mind me asking?

[virtualbrian]

What kind of tweaks did you make, if you don't mind me asking?

My specific problems were many.

First of all my strides were way too long. As a result I was landing hard on my heal for every step I took. This was the cause of most of my injuries.

My posture was slouched.

I expended A LOT of energy with side to side movement. My arms would regularly cross the centerline of my chest.

I expended A LOT of energy with up and down movement. Pushing off with my toes in a bouncing fashion.

I actually have a picture of myself during a 10 mile run that I ran with a friend of mine. He's 11 years older than I am, ran just as much and never had any injuries. The comparison of our two running styles was eye opening. He was relaxed, upright with proper strides. I was all over the place.

The first thing I did was correct my posture. Instead of my legs doing the work I started to lead with my chest. A minor adjustment but this one thing put other things in place. It shortened my stride and made me land on the middle of my foot instead of my heal.

I then focused on not crossing my centerline with my arms. All of my energy was directed at moving me forward.

I then relaxed everything below my knees and made an effort to not bounce. No pushing off with my toes.

Imagine standing upright and jogging in place.

Now lean forward from your ankles with your chest. This lean propels your forward. Each step your catching yourself from falling. If you want to run faster, lean more. This increases the turn over of your steps not the length of your strides.

I'm sure that I'm missing a lot but these are the things that I think about during a run.

I hope this helps.

[whatevergirl]

I've read that book as well, (edited my post without reading through fully, and noticed you were speaking of Chi running lol)
Yes, very helpful.

[mcours2006]

It's kind of strange that we have to be 'taught' how to run properly, and I say that without any tone of condescension whatsoever. One of my own kids has a 'funny' looking gait when he runs, so it goes to show you that it's perhaps not as natural a movement as one might assume.

[ajdahlheimer]

My specific problems were many.

First of all my strides were way too long. As a result I was landing hard on my heal for every step I took. This was the cause of most of my injuries.

My posture was slouched.

I expended A LOT of energy with side to side movement. My arms would regularly cross the centerline of my chest.

I expended A LOT of energy with up and down movement. Pushing off with my toes in a bouncing fashion.

I actually have a picture of myself during a 10 mile run that I ran with a friend of mine. He's 11 years older than I am, ran just as much and never had any injuries. The comparison of our two running styles was eye opening. He was relaxed, upright with proper strides. I was all over the place.

The first thing I did was correct my posture. Instead of my legs doing the work I started to lead with my chest. A minor adjustment but this one thing put other things in place. It shortened my stride and made me land on the middle of my foot instead of my heal.

I then focused on not crossing my centerline with my arms. All of my energy was directed at moving me forward.

I then relaxed everything below my knees and made an effort to not bounce. No pushing off with my toes.

Imagine standing upright and jogging in place.

Now lean forward from your ankles with your chest. This lean propels your forward. Each step your catching yourself from falling. If you want to run faster, lean more. This increases the turn over of your steps not the length of your strides.

I'm sure that I'm missing a lot but these are the things that I think about during a run.

I hope this helps.

Thanks a lot. I know my running form is bad, but it seems hard to correct being such a big guy. I feel like I'm gonna always just look like a lumbering idiot running around.