THE......Definitive Runner's Thread!

[Analyst]

Thanks Analyst, Added! (please PM subsequent adds)

I added three supplements too, which runners may be interested in; BCAAs, glutamine, and beta-alanine.

Will do.

My favorite post-run nutrition is chocolate milk, by the way.

[djl_ottawa]

My goal is to see if I can run 1.5 miles under 10 minutes, but also that I can run 5k easily.

Currently my time for 1.5 minutes SUCKS donkey balls. Now remember I just started running and my best time is 1.5 miles in 22 minutes.

I am currently trying out the 5K in 9 weeks program (link below) and even with week one I surprised myself and did it with no issues.

http://www.djsteveboy.com/1day25k.html

I am only on week one, but have to start somewhere. I have gotten some good tips from you folks, about shoes and such, so I am glad I was able to find that info.

[dbx]

Will do.

My favorite post-run nutrition is chocolate milk, by the way.

PM received and link added. We can always argue the merits of any of the articles later on. For instance, since fat burning is a consideration for me, I won't ingest any carbs for approx 60-90mins after running, etc...

I am only on week one, but have to start somewhere. I have gotten some good tips from you folks, about shoes and such, so I am glad I was able to find that info.

Djl, I added this link too. I saw it somewhere recently, though I don't know much about it. I'm the kind of person though who never used a "program" from the TM. I push as hard as I can and give myself some slack when I have to. Not knocking them, as I know these things work great for many folks.

And remember this; running is an exercise that you can excel at faster than with most others. You'll improve easily... if you push yourself.

[snoack]

And remember this; running is an exercise that you can excel at faster than with most others. You'll improve easily... if you push yourself.

what he said. Just be smart, listen to your body, and have fun with it.

[dbx]

what he said. Just be smart, listen to your body, and have fun with it.

And I should probably add the disclaimer (I shouldn't have to, but..) that being smart about it means being familiar with your own limitations.

For example; when I started running in 06', I had approx 90 days to prepare for a 5K my son had goaded me into running with him. He wanted to see my fitness level increase, as he knew I was strong, but that smoking was a weakness for me. He was smart, but was also only 17, and he couldn't see the big picture, so to speak.

So, he had me doing some training stuff that his cross country coach had taught him, lol. He had me running repeated sprints... uphill, running fartleks (the best I could), and he'd cheer me on standing next to the treadmill when I was trying for a new distance and/or time PR (which was probably .75 mile and under 10 mins at the time ). Oh, and I was also using caffeine. Does anyone see a potential problem here? A 47yr old guy, been smoking since age 14, never ran before this particular year, and was practicing repeated uphill sprints...in Atlanta....in the summer . Heart attack or stroke was written all over that little recipe. I was lucky!

I'm the kind of dumb SOB who doesn't like boundaries, an I'd only stop running when I felt like I was seriously on the verge of a heart attack...not realizing...that I probably really was! Stupid!!!

So yes, you can increase VO2 (breathing efficiency) levels dramatically...even if you're a smoker...because running just lets us increase performance levels faster than say, adding weight to your benching or squats. That's just the way it is, so you have to be careful and kind of know when you might be pushing too far. Be careful!

[Bando]

Hi Runners,

I ran in HS, furthest run was around 10 miles, never really good at it but I loved the exercise, it helped me with Lacrosse, Karate and Wrestling as well.

Like DBX & Bhaputi I was a smoker on the Grim Reaper's short list. I began BB'ing almost 3 years ago and began long walks and short runs to help with losing the extra 35lbs I had. 2 Years ago almost to the day, I ran my first 5K around 28+. Last year I ran a couple in 26:00. Running will always take 2nd place to BB'ing for me, but for me it's the ultimate fat burner. I also love the thrill of race day, the energy and anticipation at the start, the camaraderie in the middle and the cheering at the end. When I finish I stand and cheer all the people I beat, we did it together.

I was pretty well coerced into my 1st race, so now I pay it forward. Last year I convinced a co-worker to run in a race, her family saw her training and joined in. I cheered as the whole family came across the finish line, one by one. Her daughter subsequently joined track and I'm nervous that this year she'll be the one applauding me as I finish. This year I was only able to convince one person to race, I'll be cheering the loudest as she completes her 1st 5K.

I'm running my 1st 5K of this year on Sunday, haven't trained much with a death in the family and Grad School demands, but I'll enjoy it no matter what. Ran 28:45 5K today and hoping for sub 27:00 on race day.

I started a prior thread [http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...p?t=106805021] on the subject that had a good 'run' but I'm glad DBX took the reigns and started a respectable one.

[cactusflower]

I downloaded info from HRM.... this is so coool!

Just wanted to share!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=1852

[dbx]

Hi Runners,

I'm running my 1st 5K of this year on Sunday, haven't trained much with a death in the family and Grad School demands, but I'll enjoy it no matter what. Ran 28:45 5K today and hoping for sub 27:00 on race day.

Good to see you, Bando! You will kick ass on Sunday. You know what the best part about having already run a few races? The fact that you KNOW you could run Sunday's race and at least finish, lol. The only thing you have to hope is that your time will be what you want it to be! And that's a cool place to be in.

... but I'm glad DBX took the reigns and started a respectable one.

I'm just glad to have a clean slate to start with, so to speak. However, I will need each of you to help me keep this together and respectable. Even when we talk about things we consider trivial, they might be important to another member or someone lurking.

Just coming here and reading a few posts before running can be inspiring for me, just like lifting. I'd like everyone to try to keep this in mind when they post about a run. And again, sure, some will be routine and we certainly won't always write something wonderful, but...you guys know what I mean.

I also suspect that now that the thread is stickied in this forum, that more members will stop in. Let's try to acknowledge each and every one. I'd like nothing more than to have some real world advanced runners part of our crew!

I downloaded info from HRM.... this is so coool!

OK, LOL! You've got to help me here;

Average heart rate bpm - 107
Maximum heart rate bpm - 187
Fat percentage of calories - 55%

--------------------------------------------------

Tonight's numbers:

Calories kcal - 433
Duration hh:mm:ss -1:30:53

Average heart rate bpm - 109
Maximum heart rate bpm - 182
Fat percentage of calories - 40%

With average HR numbers of 107 & 109...but peaks in the 180's...what in the world were you doing? . I saw the "talking" comment, but my point is this; if you had peaks in the 180's, you probably have close to a 195-200 max HR, OK? If that is the case, you were barely in the "healthy heart" range. You'd want to avg between 120 & 140 to be in the so-called "fat burning" zone. You see, these neat gadgets tell on you too!

[flywheel99]

Yea, why are the avg HR numbers so low? This was for running? My numbers are usually in the 130s - 140s this spring for running.

OK, LOL! You've got to help me here;

Average heart rate bpm - 107
Maximum heart rate bpm - 187
Fat percentage of calories - 55%

--------------------------------------------------

Tonight's numbers:

Calories kcal - 433
Duration hh:mm:ss -1:30:53

Average heart rate bpm - 109
Maximum heart rate bpm - 182
Fat percentage of calories - 40%

With average HR numbers of 107 & 109...but peaks in the 180's...what in the world were you doing? . I saw the "talking" comment, but my point is this; if you had peaks in the 180's, you probably have close to a 195-200 max HR, OK? If that is the case, you were barely in the "healthy heart" range. You'd want to avg between 120 & 140 to be in the so-called "fat burning" zone. You see, these neat gadgets tell on you too!

[EMISGOD]

I didn't read through the entire 8 million pages of the last thread , but is/was there a consensus on shoes?

I personally like the Saucony Grid Domain 3s for all around use and running, as I think they have excellent "spring" and I find the design very visually appealing, but the Saucony Grid Centergy, while not as good in those respects (certainly not bad, though), locks into my bicycle pedals a lot better...

What's everyone else using and why? Does color ever come into play on your decisions?

[Analyst]

OK, LOL! You've got to help me here;

Average heart rate bpm - 107
Maximum heart rate bpm - 187
Fat percentage of calories - 55%

--------------------------------------------------

Tonight's numbers:

Calories kcal - 433
Duration hh:mm:ss -1:30:53

Average heart rate bpm - 109
Maximum heart rate bpm - 182
Fat percentage of calories - 40%

With average HR numbers of 107 & 109...but peaks in the 180's...what in the world were you doing? . I saw the "talking" comment, but my point is this; if you had peaks in the 180's, you probably have close to a 195-200 max HR, OK? If that is the case, you were barely in the "healthy heart" range. You'd want to avg between 120 & 140 to be in the so-called "fat burning" zone. You see, these neat gadgets tell on you too!

I noticed the HR, too. Cactus, did you stay hydrated when doing your running? Water intake can make upwards of 15-20 bpm difference.

As for burning fat, it really depends. I wouldn't be surprised if many people come close to their max hr's doing HIIT, which according to the research is equal to slower steady-state cardio in terms of fat oxidation (much of the fat burning taking place outside the workout, though).

Alan Aragon's written about it here:
http://www.alanaragon.com/myths-unde...ed-cardio.html

I've frequently hit the 180's during intervals, and my max is 190 or a little above.

These days, I use my HRM to indicate whether I'm getting enough water intake and overall fitness level over time, and that's about it. From what I've read, a "talk test" is a much better indicator of how hard you're working.

[Analyst]

I didn't read through the entire 8 million pages of the last thread , but is/was there a consensus on shoes?

I personally like the Saucony Grid Domain 3s for all around use and running, as I think they have excellent "spring" and I find the design very visually appealing, but the Saucony Grid Centergy, while not as good in those respects (certainly not bad, though), locks into my bicycle pedals a lot better...

What's everyone else using and why? Does color ever come into play on your decisions?

I run with New Balance 992's (stability emphasis). I'll be getting my gait analyzed at a health screening at work next week, though.

[rpaul11]

I didn't read through the entire 8 million pages of the last thread , but is/was there a consensus on shoes?

I personally like the Saucony Grid Domain 3s for all around use and running, as I think they have excellent "spring" and I find the design very visually appealing, but the Saucony Grid Centergy, while not as good in those respects (certainly not bad, though), locks into my bicycle pedals a lot better...

What's everyone else using and why? Does color ever come into play on your decisions?

the consensus seems to be what ever works best for you and fits your running style Go to a runners specialty shop and have them analyze your running/walking stride and get you into the right shoes for you


Yes...color comes into play...I'm not gonna wear no ugly azz shoes

Most manufacturers cary a few different color options....

[bhaputi]

I didn't read through the entire 8 million pages of the last thread , but is/was there a consensus on shoes?

I personally like the Saucony Grid Domain 3s for all around use and running, as I think they have excellent "spring" and I find the design very visually appealing, but the Saucony Grid Centergy, while not as good in those respects (certainly not bad, though), locks into my bicycle pedals a lot better...

What's everyone else using and why? Does color ever come into play on your decisions?

It varies by person and need, ie: overpronator, underpronator, cushioning, high arch, low arch, distance run, etc.

I personally am neutral all the way, but need cushioning due to being a bigger guy, so I have worn Nike Air Vomeros, Mizuno Wave Creations, and my most recent are Mizuno Wave Riders. If you have a specialty running store near you, I recommend talking to them. It can save you a world of hurt.

As for color - it has never come into consideration for me, but it does for many. I have had white/blue, grey/orange, white/yellow/blue, red, and currently white/brown that I can think of. I have, I will admit, thought of getting a brown running shirt to match my current brown shoes for my first half marathon, though

[dbx]

Yea, why are the avg HR numbers so low? This was for running? My numbers are usually in the 130s - 140s this spring for running.

I'm guessing that she was really just using it the first night for a reg. workout, just to try it out. But the numbers weren't much different the second night. I'm betting that she's leaving it connected (still reading info) long after she's done performing any exercise thus, bringing the avg down so low.

I didn't read through the entire 8 million pages of the last thread , but is/was there a consensus on shoes?

What's everyone else using and why? Does color ever come into play on your decisions?

You'll never see a consensus with shoes. Never. It would be like asking what the best guitar is . It's all very personal. I'm on my 4th pair of Asics and love them. But truth be told, I've never tried another brand. When I started 3yrs ago, I was using $15 shoes from Wallyworld. It took my son a few months to convince me that quality shoes would make a difference. Wow . He'd used Asics, among several others, during HS running track & cross country, and he had a preference the Asics. But further, that shoes are not only so very individual, but that minor changes made to a company's particular "model" can quickly bring criticism or rave reviews. In other words, it can be hit & miss buying different models from the company you may have decided that was "best".

Oh, lol, and as far as color; funny you should ask! I recently ordered a "cheap" pair ($60) of Asics 2130 Gels for back-up (rain etc..). I was sure the price was so low because of the gaudy colors that they were trying to dump. It even stated the ugly color combo I was getting. Well, when they arrived, I was more than pleasantly surprised that they were a "normal" color combo . But truly, I didn't give a rat's ass what color they were. It's all about the feet...and the value for me.

As for burning fat, it really depends. I wouldn't be surprised if many people come close to their max hr's doing HIIT, which according to the research is equal to slower steady-state cardio in terms of fat oxidation (much of the fat burning taking place outside the workout, though).

Sure, if we're hitting it hard enough, we should be getting up to max HR during HIIT cardio. But be careful the way you interpret fat burning there. Actually, HIIT will burn fat at an accelerated rate. The concern is with what else it starts burning at that level on intensity. I respect Alan a great deal, but there are almost too many variables that make much of this whole subject all but moot. Read the article I linked on the 1st page/post here regarding HIIT Vs LISS (I think I posted it) for even more perspective.

From what I've read, a "talk test" is a much better indicator of how hard you're working.

Many times I've advised someone to use the "talk test" to be sure they're close to that supposed fat burning zone. However, it's pretty darn limited to gauge anything other than, "Can you talk without gasping?" A HRM is a much better tool. I suppose it's still a novelty of sorts for me, but I continue to discover fascinating information about how my body reacts under various conditions.

[cactusflower]

OK, LOL! You've got to help me here;

Average heart rate bpm - 107
Maximum heart rate bpm - 187
Fat percentage of calories - 55%

--------------------------------------------------

Tonight's numbers:

Calories kcal - 433
Duration hh:mm:ss -1:30:53

Average heart rate bpm - 109
Maximum heart rate bpm - 182
Fat percentage of calories - 40%

With average HR numbers of 107 & 109...but peaks in the 180's...what in the world were you doing? . I saw the "talking" comment, but my point is this; if you had peaks in the 180's, you probably have close to a 195-200 max HR, OK? If that is the case, you were barely in the "healthy heart" range. You'd want to avg between 120 & 140 to be in the so-called "fat burning" zone. You see, these neat gadgets tell on you too!

Last night I was running...and I know I was at 90-98% of my maximum which was the point. The testing that I have to go through you are pushing yourself at 90% - 100% of your HR. Mind you it isn't for a long time (like maybe a minute max). You literally switch from Aeorbic to Anaerobic within 2 minutes. The low heart rate was becasue I was standing there talking lol. I didn't even think to turn it off. For my age, weight etc at 80% my Target HR is 147.

Yea, why are the avg HR numbers so low? This was for running? My numbers are usually in the 130s - 140s this spring for running.

Mondays workout was weights only...so that's why my HR was low.

I didn't read through the entire 8 million pages of the last thread , but is/was there a consensus on shoes?

I personally like the Saucony Grid Domain 3s for all around use and running, as I think they have excellent "spring" and I find the design very visually appealing, but the Saucony Grid Centergy, while not as good in those respects (certainly not bad, though), locks into my bicycle pedals a lot better...

What's everyone else using and why? Does color ever come into play on your decisions?

I just got mizunos (I forget which nes though) and I LOVE them!

I noticed the HR, too. Cactus, did you stay hydrated when doing your running? Water intake can make upwards of 15-20 bpm difference.

As for burning fat, it really depends. I wouldn't be surprised if many people come close to their max hr's doing HIIT, which according to the research is equal to slower steady-state cardio in terms of fat oxidation (much of the fat burning taking place outside the workout, though).

Alan Aragon's written about it here:
http://www.alanaragon.com/myths-unde...ed-cardio.html

I've frequently hit the 180's during intervals, and my max is 190 or a little above.

These days, I use my HRM to indicate whether I'm getting enough water intake and overall fitness level over time, and that's about it. From what I've read, a "talk test" is a much better indicator of how hard you're working.

When I was running last night...I oculd not talk... maybe spit out a few words here or there but there was no way I could have conversation.

[dbx]

Last night I was running...and I know I was at 90-98% of my maximum which was the point. The testing that I have to go through you are pushing yourself at 90% - 100% of your HR. Mind you it isn't for a long time (like maybe a minute max). You literally switch from Aeorbic to Anaerobic within 2 minutes. The low heart rate was becasue I was standing there talking lol. I didn't even think to turn it off. For my age, weight etc at 80% my Target HR is 147.

It appears that my guess was right. And I hope you know that I was playfully ribbing you . But...ahem... read the article in this link (also posted in 1st page here) http://www.howtobefit.com/determine-...heart-rate.htm Now that you have a HRM, it's time to use it to more accurately calculate what your MAX HR is! The age thing don't cut it . Now, you may find it ends up being close, but there's also a chance, like with me, that it's at least 15 BPM off doing it that way. Hey, that's why you bought it, right? Have some fun with it.

[cactusflower]

It appears that my guess was right. And I hope you know that I was playfully ribbing you . But...ahem... read the article in this link (also posted in 1st page here) http://www.howtobefit.com/determine-...heart-rate.htm Now that you have a HRM, it's time to use it to more accurately calculate what your MAX HR is! The age thing don't cut it . Now, you may find it ends up being close, but there's also a chance, like with me, that it's at least 15 BPM off doing it that way. Hey, that's why you bought it, right? Have some fun with it.

Thanks for the link. As odd as it may aound I did not buy my HRM to ensure I was in my fat burning zone b/c that is not my goal. My HR recovered quite quickly so that was a good sign. I bought the HRM to make sure I was pushing myself out of my comfort zone (80-90-100%) and to see how long I was doing it.

[rpaul11]

Thanks for the link. As odd as it may aound I did not buy my HRM to ensure I was in my fat burning zone b/c that is not my goal. My HR recovered quite quickly so that was a good sign. I bought the HRM to make sure I was pushing myself out of my comfort zone (80-90-100%) and to see how long I was doing it.

this will still be a great link for you so you can assure you are getting your HR where you need it to be

[snoack]

How we all feeling today?

What's everybody doing today for training, or what has everybody already done? Personally, I'm after a 5 miler this evening, going to be running at an easy pace with a goal of 49-52 minutes. Saturday is race day. My best 3 mile time so far is 28:32, like to see if I can break 28 minutes my first time out.

As far as the shoe question is concerned-

I picked a pair of Asics a few weeks ago after reading a post by Kevin saying how much he liked them. Subsequently, I've picked up a second pair. Had a pair of NBs, picked up a second pair of those. What I have found is that the Asics seem to have (for me anyway) better arch support and perform well on hard surfaces and longer runs. The NBs feel lighter on my feet and are preferred for soft surface runs and hill training.

as far as the conversation question is concerned-

CF, you don't need to be able to carry on a full debate about global Keyensian economics while you run. A "conversation" can be limited to an occasional short sentence here and there..."How you feelin'?" "I'm okay" "Go another mile?" "Sure, why not?"...stuff like that.

Going to be a beautiful day in the neighborhood, I'm feeling it!

[dbx]

How we all feeling today?

What's everybody doing today for training, or what has everybody already done? Personally, I'm after a 5 miler this evening, going to be running at an easy pace with a goal of 49-52 minutes. Saturday is race day. My best 3 mile time so far is 28:32, like to see if I can break 28 minutes my first time out.

I'm feeling great. Wow, only a few days away from race day already? Are you planning on taking Fri off (at least) from running? I took 2 days rest before the only 2 races I ever ran, but next time around, one day max. I think you'll make your goal, Steve. 28:00 is reasonable and would show fantastic progress in a very short time for you.

I picked a pair of Asics a few weeks ago after reading a post by Kevin saying how much he liked them.

What "model" Asics did you get? Seems like I asked you, but don't recall.

Going to be a beautiful day in the neighborhood, I'm feeling it!

Man, last night was windy, 60* and felt like a Fall day. I had to restrain from going out to run again. Seriously Today is Leg Day (very shortly), so I don't plan on running until tomorrow.

[snoack]

I'm feeling great. Wow, only a few days away from race day already? Are you planning on taking Fri off (at least) from running? I took 2 days rest before the only 2 races I ever ran, but next time around, one day max. I think you'll make your goal, Steve. 28:00 is reasonable and would show fantastic progress in a very short time for you.

I haven't decided yet. I've done 3 straight 'back-to-back' sessions. As of now, the plan is to run tonight, cross train tomorrow (some core work and strength training), and maybe do something fun on Friday like some MA training or a few rounds with my double ended bag. Of course, all of that is subject to shifting, but I will 100% NOT be running on Friday.

What "model" Asics did you get? Seems like I asked you, but don't recall.

I'll check them out today and let you know.

Man, last night was windy, 60* and felt like a Fall day. I had to restrain from going out to run again. Seriously Today is Leg Day (very shortly), so I don't plan on running until tomorrow.

I had a wasted evening last night (went to look at a house and then out for dinner afterwards), didn't even have time to get in the core work I wanted to do last night. Today is going to be somewhat overcast, chance of a shower here and there, with a high of about 60 degrees. On top of that, I'm running on grass tonight, which I really love.

Oh, read an article about trail running last night, might be some of that in my future...we'll see.

[cactusflower]

I haven't decided yet. I've done 3 straight 'back-to-back' sessions. As of now, the plan is to run tonight, cross train tomorrow (some core work and strength training), and maybe do something fun on Friday like some MA training or a few rounds with my double ended bag. Of course, all of that is subject to shifting, but I will 100% NOT be running on Friday.





I'll check them out today and let you know.





I had a wasted evening last night (went to look at a house and then out for dinner afterwards), didn't even have time to get in the core work I wanted to do last night. Today is going to be somewhat overcast, chance of a shower here and there, with a high of about 60 degrees. On top of that, I'm running on grass tonight, which I really love.

Oh, read an article about trail running last night, might be some of that in my future...we'll see.

hey are you fighter61464 ?

[bamatank]

I didn't read through the entire 8 million pages of the last thread , but is/was there a consensus on shoes?

I personally like the Saucony Grid Domain 3s for all around use and running, as I think they have excellent "spring" and I find the design very visually appealing, but the Saucony Grid Centergy, while not as good in those respects (certainly not bad, though), locks into my bicycle pedals a lot better...

What's everyone else using and why? Does color ever come into play on your decisions?

what shoe works best for you is a personal thing. You just have to find what you like best. For years I've worn the Nike Pegasus. I love this shoe. It's been my favorite since high school.

[djl_ottawa]

So did my 2nd day of week one of the 5k in 9 weeks program.

And I noticed something. I am getting MUCH better at it. I actually had started to run before this (about month and half) and well, it was to easy.

I was running at 6mph (treadmill, I know I know) and I felt like it was to slow.

And I had done this after just doing a full chest/back workout. Mind you, by the time I was done and I was in the sauna I felt like I was going to puke, but damn otherwise I felt great.

So Thursday will be day 3 of week one and I am going to ramp it up to 7mph. Wish me luck..

[snoack]

hey are you fighter61464 ?

I assume we're talking about the Beginner's forum over at RW?

yep, that's me...

who are you?

[cactusflower]

I assume we're talking about the Beginner's forum over at RW?

yep, that's me...

who are you?

i'm lili1972 You answered my question lol

[Analyst]

How we all feeling today?

What's everybody doing today for training, or what has everybody already done? Personally, I'm after a 5 miler this evening, going to be running at an easy pace with a goal of 49-52 minutes. Saturday is race day. My best 3 mile time so far is 28:32, like to see if I can break 28 minutes my first time out.

As far as the shoe question is concerned-

I picked a pair of Asics a few weeks ago after reading a post by Kevin saying how much he liked them. Subsequently, I've picked up a second pair. Had a pair of NBs, picked up a second pair of those. What I have found is that the Asics seem to have (for me anyway) better arch support and perform well on hard surfaces and longer runs. The NBs feel lighter on my feet and are preferred for soft surface runs and hill training.

as far as the conversation question is concerned-

CF, you don't need to be able to carry on a full debate about global Keyensian economics while you run. A "conversation" can be limited to an occasional short sentence here and there..."How you feelin'?" "I'm okay" "Go another mile?" "Sure, why not?"...stuff like that.

Going to be a beautiful day in the neighborhood, I'm feeling it!

I'll be doing an easy 3 mile run tonight. This week I'm reducing mileage somewhat.

Good description about the talk test.

Many times I've advised someone to use the "talk test" to be sure they're close to that supposed fat burning zone. However, it's pretty darn limited to gauge anything other than, "Can you talk without gasping?" A HRM is a much better tool. I suppose it's still a novelty of sorts for me, but I continue to discover fascinating information about how my body reacts under various conditions.

Honestly, after seeing my HR vary by 15-20 bpm for equal effort on different days (same speed and distance) based largely on hydration/sleep/other factors, and seeing it slowly increase from 155 to 175 within the same constant-speed workout despite plenty of during-workout fluid intake (cardiac creep), I don't rely on HR as any kind of accurate indicator of effort. It's a tool to be sure, and interesting, but I would never limit effort by heart rate. Just my $.02.

[snoack]

i'm lili1972 You answered my question lol

well, I think the tatt was a dead give away.

[cactusflower]

well, I think the tatt was a dead give away.

LOL yep!