Waterboarded 266 times

[WilyCoder]

Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times

* Story Highlights
* Memo: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed waterboarded 183 times in one month
* Former CIA officer said in 2007 that Mohammed waterboarded for 30-35 seconds
* Obama: Memos released because methods were reported, are now banned
* CIA's ex-chief denounces decision to release memos

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- CIA interrogators used waterboarding at least 266 times on two top al Qaeda suspects, according to a Bush-era Justice Department memo released by the Obama administration.

The controversial technique that simulates drowning -- and which President Obama calls torture -- was used at least 83 times in August 2002 on suspected al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah, according to the memo.

Interrogators also waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times in March 2003. Mohammed is believed to be the mastermind behind the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.

Obama released the memo Thursday, saying that "exceptional circumstances surround these memos and require their release." VideoWatch other tactics outlined in memos ?

The memo, dated May 30, 2005, was from then-Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John Rizzo, who was acting general counsel for the CIA.

It paints a different picture from the one described by former CIA officer John Kiriakou. In a December 2007 interview with CNN, Kiriakou said Zubaydah had been waterboarded for "about 30 seconds, 35 seconds" and agreed to cooperate with interrogators the following day.

In an interview on "Fox News Sunday," Michael Hayden, who directed the CIA from 2006 to 2009, was asked about the number of times Mohammed was waterboarded.

Hayden denounced the release of the memos and did not comment on the number, saying it was his understanding that the frequency of waterboarding was among the operational details that had not been declassified. VideoWatch one expert say tactics 'worse than Abu Ghraib' ?

The 2005 memo refers to a letter that had contained the numbers as well. Part of the reference to the letter was redacted in the released memo.

Waterboarding is among the interrogation tactics that Obama has prohibited through an executive order.

The CIA also has admitted waterboarding Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the first person charged in the United States for the 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen that killed 17 U.S. sailors.

Obama said last week he felt comfortable releasing the classified memos because the Bush administration acknowledged using some of the practices associated with the memos, and the interrogation techniques were widely reported and have since been banned.

"Withholding these memos would only serve to deny facts that have been in the public domain for some time," Obama said in a statement. "This could contribute to an inaccurate accounting of the past, and fuel erroneous and inflammatory assumptions about actions taken by the United States."

The president applauded the work of the U.S. intelligence community and said no one who "carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice" would be prosecuted.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/...ing/index.html

Regardless of whether or not its torture, having to do it that many times makes it sound like its very ineffective.

[Cramerica]

Good for them.

[Cramerica]

Anyone heard the new interrogation techniques proposed?

You can slap a prisoner but only open handed on the face once or in the stomach - open handed. This is used to induce a state of fear. I know when someone slaps my stomach I **** my pants.

[WilyCoder]

183 times in one month? Holy mother of sadism.

Thats about 6 times a day.

[GApump]

Regardless of whether or not its torture, having to do it that many times makes it sound like its very ineffective.

that's the part that jumped out at me the most as well, if anyone can withstand it being done to them 266 times then its not as bad as I thought it was.

Also, strong record keeping by the CIA....a true bureaucracy

[Stizzel]

Doesn't matter, Obama will protect the Bush administration from prosecution.

And pro-torture people should be glad to know Obama has made sure renditions will continue.

[Cramerica]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/...ing/index.html

Regardless of whether or not its torture, having to do it that many times makes it sound like its very ineffective.

I agree, actually.

Time to up the ante, I suppose. They are knowing now that they won't drown.

[One More Time]

lol. I read that. It doesn't seem very effective to me.....I mean, the method that you choose you should get all you need in 1 maybe 2 sessions.

[edible_eye]

Why isn't there an entry about the guy taking two bullets in the back of his head once we got all the information we needed?

Soft, soft, soft - and STILL the panty-waste liberals will cry and gnash their teeth when they hear about this.

[WilyCoder]

lol. I read that. It doesn't seem very effective to me.....I mean, the method that you choose you should get all you need in 1 maybe 2 sessions.

Unless your goal is not to gather information?

[Cramerica]

Unless your goal is not to gather information?

What would be the goal?

[One More Time]

Unless your goal is not to gather information?

Intensity is directly proportional to amount of info gained

[WilyCoder]

What would be the goal?

Nemeses?

[IdahoViking]

Waterboarding was a technique added to the CIA's interogation "arsenal" by George Tenet in 1999, Tenet was a Clinton appointee and waterboarding was an approved CIA interogation tool before George Bush took office.

[WilyCoder]

Waterboarding was a technique added to the CIA's interogation "arsenal" by George Tenet in 1999, Tenet was a Clinton appointee and waterboarding was an approved CIA interogation tool before George Bush took office.

Thank you for bringing Bush, Clinton, and partisanship into the thread.

[ghengisconor]

If the purpose of this is to gather information, clearly this method has failed.

If the purpose is to sadistically torture a person, then presumably this has worked. Assumptively, there is no garuantee that the next time one is waterboarded will leave the detainee unharmed.

Combined, it will produced false evidence either way: telling the interrogators whatever they want to hear to stop the waterboarding, or, alternatively, telling them what to hear so they'll stop torturing you.

The whole purpose of interrogation is not to punish, but to collect.

edit; why the hell wouldn't sodium pentothal not being used?

[dr_D]

lol at "simulated drowning" - it is drowning, your breathing in water vapor

[edible_eye]

lol at "simulated drowning" - it is drowning, your breathing in water vapor

Oh, so they were all drowned? The sheikh was drowned 266 times? That's pretty remarkable. (no Christ?)

What's really funny is there are people who do this to themselves voluntarily, many times a day with nasal inhalers.

[Cramerica]

lol at "simulated drowning" - it is drowning, your breathing in water vapor

Drowning is the act of actual death.

[blumpkin415]

Torture...? ya, ok.

I've been waterboarded multiple times. We do it to **** with each other.

[dr_D]

from Merriam-webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drowning

drowning

1 a: to suffocate by submersion especially in water

it does not have have to lead to death if it is stopped in time, obviously if it isn't then the person dies.

You are breathing in water, there is nothing "simulated" about that

[edible_eye]

Torture...? ya, ok.

I've been waterboarded multiple times. We do it to **** with each other.

Be careful. Obama might have to prosecute you.

[ghengisconor]

from Merriam-webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drowning

drowning

1 a: to suffocate by submersion especially in water

it does not have have to lead to death if it is stopped in time, obviously if it isn't then the person dies.

You are breathing in water, there is nothing "simulated" about that

pwnd.

[Cramerica]

from Merriam-webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drowning

drowning

1 a: to suffocate by submersion especially in water

it does not have have to lead to death if it is stopped in time, obviously if it isn't then the person dies.

You are breathing in water, there is nothing "simulated" about that

Drowning is the act of deathly suffocation due to water entering the lungs.

And then you have near drowning.

Near drowning is the survival of a drowning event involving unconsciousness or water inhalation and can lead to serious secondary complications, including death, after the event.

[Cramerica]

pwnd.

Negative.

There are more than one type of drowning, as any scuba diver would know.

[ghengisconor]

Negative.

There are more than one type of drowning, as any scuba diver would know.

<---pwnd (lulz)



Again, WHY DON'T THEY USE SODIUM PENTATHOL?

[IdahoViking]

<---pwnd (lulz)



Again, WHY DON'T THEY USE SODIUM PENTATHOL?

It's not effective.

[Cramerica]

Again, WHY DON'T THEY USE SODIUM PENTATHOL?

Is it only administered via IV?

[dr_D]

Drowning is the act of deathly suffocation due to water entering the lungs.

And then you have near drowning.

near drowning is after the fact, i.e. after surviving a drowning experience

but whatever no point in taking the thread topic to a pointless tangent.

[mehdi84]

that's the part that jumped out at me the most as well, if anyone can withstand it being done to them 266 times then its not as bad as I thought it was.

Also, strong record keeping by the CIA....a true bureaucracy

Waterboarding is not physically damaging, and you can't really die from it. It's a psychological torture. So it's not really a matter of the recipient withstanding waterboarding, as they have no choice.



That said. 266 occasions where waterboarding does sound excessive. Does the human body adapt to waterboarding? I'm not sure. However, regardless of whether it is or is not, it's quite clearly torture. A label many have long refused to associate with it.

It's interesting, that years ago the question of whether or not we should use torture had a simple: never, answer. Today, we are now arguing over what kinds of torture are acceptable. It's quite interesting how views have evolved in this country over the past ten years.