Best for overall joint health???

[Bama67]

Well fellas, I have been lifting religously for 5 years and feel that I have hit my max for my genetics. I am naturally a small guy and went from kinda fat at 160lbs, to pretty cut at 195lbs. Not alot of change in the last two years.

To get down to the point I plan on doing my first cycle sometime soon. I have researched the topic for over a year. I have help (wife is an RN and will keep tabs on everything) And finally am going to give it a go. I know that a first timer should do a Test only cycle, and that is what I plan on doing at around 500mg a week.

My question is, I have an old ligament injury that still causes my shoulder to be unstable occasionally. I am very careful, and I exclude some excercises because of this old injury. I get alot of varying answers when I research this topic, so what would YOU recommend to stack that might help preserve my joints. Small amount of deca possibly?

Thanks for your help, and for the record I already take Glucosamine and Chondrontin and have done so for years.

[sixguns]

there is alot of differing opinions, but i have seen alot of other places recommend deca/test cycle as a first, but the main reason people do test only first run is to see how there body reacts to it incase there are problems when you stack, you know it isnt the test, but a teat deca cycle isnt unheard of, run deca at 300mg/week, and test at 500, also drop the deca a week b4 the test at the end as it takes a week longer to clear your systewm, b4 you start pct

[DaBurg3r]

steroids that will help with your joints/connective tissues are

Deca
Equipoise
Primobolan
Anavar

and

hGH

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis, but the collagen isn't cross linked so the new collage formed when taking winstrol isn't as elastic as it normally would be.

I'm sure there are others, but those are the major substances that can help with joints.

You say you have a past shoulder issue and want to take something for your joints. Whatever you decide to use, I think if you incorporate a rehabilitation exercises for your injury into your training the results will be excellent.

[Bama67]

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I thought about Winstrol because I read about how it builds new collagen, but at other times I read it pulls the moisture out of the joints.
I think I will go with a Deca, but can I use a lower dose to be effective and minimize "Deca Dick"? Or is this inevitable? I sure hope not

[DaBurg3r]

Originally Posted by Bama67

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I thought about Winstrol because I read about how it builds new collagen, but at other times I read it pulls the moisture out of the joints.
I think I will go with a Deca, but can I use a lower dose to be effective and minimize "Deca Dick"? Or is this inevitable? I sure hope not

Not everyone becomes impotent when using Deca, however, deca is very suppressive and that can't be avoided.

Common dose seems to be 300 mg a week for someone just starting.

However, if it's your first time using an kind of AAS then just doing a low dose test only cycle to see how your body responds would be a good way to be safe about starting to use AAS.

[IwillBaMonster]

As I'm allways concerned about the prevention, rather then cure, I'd like to ask - What caused your particural injury (what do you THINK it caused) and what could you suggest/advice to avoid it?

[Bodfather]

purely for joint reasons u cud run it 100mg-200mg
u dont hav to run it 300mg +
If i was u id run it 150mg/week

[sixguns]

anyone care to elaborate on anavars relation to collagen synthesis, i have heard of this b4 but only vaguely in passing

[BCeagle]

Winstrol is awful for joints/ligaments. It builds too quickly and the result is brittle tendons. It is a major cause of tears. Avoid it. I will get you some studies to help you.

I have the same problem and was going to stack eq but then I wouldnt know what test alone would do. I am take Animal Pack Flex, pretty good so far. I did notice that my weights increase ridiculously but even if I feel a slight twinge, I shut it down.

[BCeagle]

How to Increase Collagen Synthesis

Originally posted by AnimalMass on competitiv************

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

[DaBurg3r]

Anavar and hGH have both been used to help burn victims heal faster as well because of the increase in collagen (skin is made partly of collagen)

[Bama67]

Originally Posted by IwillBaMonster

As I'm allways concerned about the prevention, rather then cure, I'd like to ask - What caused your particural injury (what do you THINK it caused) and what could you suggest/advice to avoid it?

Thanks for all the help guys. My shoulder injury was a result of water skiiing, it pulled my arm completely out of socket, and caused a good amount of damage. I have never had an injury due to the gym, except an anurysm while deadlifting (that sucked)