OFFICIAL: Poker thread part3

**Dk716** · 10-29-2009, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Dk716

how do you collect FTP points on Full tilt? like for free rolls

^^^

**Dk716** · 10-29-2009, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Dk716

how do you collect FTP points on Full tilt? like for free rolls

Originally Posted by E_N_D_L_E_S_S

and this is my usual tournament luck...

short stacked
flop trips
all in
get burned on the turn
..
no profit

how much?

**E_N_D_L_E_S_S** · 10-29-2009, 12:53 AM

Tourney wasnt much, couple dollars.. trying to redeem myself now

**SlapChopper** · 10-29-2009, 12:53 AM

You get Full Tilt Points by paying rake. When you enter a tourney it will say something like 10+1. 10 dollars of that goes to the prize pool and 1 dollar goes to the site. In cash games, a little rake is taken out of every pot and goes to the site. For every 1 dollar that you pay in rake, you get 7 Full Tilt Points as far as I know. So yes, you have to play in real money tournaments to get FTPs. lulz

**joelz54_99** · 10-29-2009, 06:38 AM

Is going all in with AK the best move? Its basically a coin flip with any pair with the exception of AA or KK. Based on your research and experience what do you say?

**Loctus** · 10-29-2009, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by joelz54_99

Is going all in with AK the best move? Its basically a coin flip with any pair with the exception of AA or KK. Based on your research and experience what do you say?

kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinda depends on the situation brah. but just kinda.

**Ilovehotmoms** · 10-29-2009, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by joelz54_99

Is going all in with AK the best move? Its basically a coin flip with any pair with the exception of AA or KK. Based on your research and experience what do you say?

depends who im playing, if im playing an agressive donkey, ill shove ak no problem

**joelz54_99** · 10-29-2009, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Loctus

kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinda depends on the situation brah. but just kinda.

Ok, lets say you are short stacked?

Lets say have a good amount?

Lets say you haven't caught any cards so you want to play this out?

Originally Posted by Ilovehotmoms

depends who im playing, if im playing an agressive donkey, ill shove ak no problem

OK, this makes some sense. I guess the key is to keep note on the other players betting patterns to determine if AK will be good.

**Ilovehotmoms** · 10-29-2009, 08:13 AM

Ok, lets say you are short stacked? short stack in a tourney or cash game? if your in a tourney, this is an automatic shove, because thats the best hand you will probably see in awhile, and in a tournament blinds will eat u away. Cash games, its not a bad shove either, but again it depends if your playing a tight player or loose. Me if its a tight player and there shoving there stack preflop I am folding, but if he is a loose player I'm insta shoving

sums it up for me atleast

**Loctus** · 10-29-2009, 08:23 AM

Playing AK on the flop vs. loose players can be a goldmine if you hit TPTK and you can put lots of money into the pot with it, which against a tighter player isn't that much fun to do since his range for putting lots of money into the pot probably beats your TPTK a good amount of the time. In other words, its easier to get value from worse hands against a loose player than vs. a tight one, so it might be more +EV to just play multiple streets with your AK then shoving it vs a loose guy.

Thus, I'm more inclined to shove AK vs. tight players since their calling range in general are mostly hands that have you dominated (which a looser player will call with aswell, duh), thus giving you lots of fold equity vs. pairs that you're flipping with.

This only goes for ~100bb cashgames, ofc.

**SolidSnake84** · 10-29-2009, 08:27 AM

Ak is one of those hands i hate getting carried away with. people seem to forget it's a drawing hand and not a made hand...i cant tell u how many times ive seen people bet out AK like a high pp post flop and get burned, and also hwo many times ive seen people unwilling to muck their AK on a missed flop, only to later pair up one of their hole cards, but fall into a trap like their opponent slow played a set or 2 pair or some other monster.

If i miss the flop with it, I muck in most cases unless ive got a read...if im playing a super aggro opponent, sometimes i wll even smooth call it preflop and see what it brings...a lot of times those types will do your betting for you and you can control pot size by check calling...against a weaker or nitty opponent, i will 3bet it much more often and try to take it down with a c-bet regardless of the flop...this works well against people that rarely float flops with nothing...

now if you are in a tournament, if you are shortstacked it's an auto shove...even if you arent shortstacked, i will often have no problem flipping it even if it's against QQ...you gotta stay alive in tourneys and winning flips is a part of that, and there's almost no better hand to crack big pp's than AK and you can be sure almost any opponent is willing to stack off JJ, 1010 etc...so if you have the chips to afford it, it's an easy flip, and if you dont have the chips to afford it, you will need to flip sooner or later anyway...not to mention you are dominating AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ...all hands that a guy with a stack will easily gamble with at a shot to knock you out.

long story short, i like AK much better in tourneys than cash games...if you are playing cash, just dont get carried away with it...same can also be said for AA and KK if you are playing postflop, but thats a whole other can of worms.

**Ilovehotmoms** · 10-29-2009, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Ak is one of those hands i hate getting carried away with. people seem to forget it's a drawing hand and not a made hand...i cant tell u how many times ive seen people bet out AK like a high pp post flop and get burned, and also hwo many times ive seen people unwilling to muck their AK on a missed flop, only to later pair up one of their hole cards, but fall into a trap like their opponent slow played a set or 2 pair or some other monster.

If i miss the flop with it, I muck in most cases unless ive got a read...if im playing a super aggro opponent, sometimes i wll even smooth call it preflop and see what it brings...a lot of times those types will do your betting for you and you can control pot size by check calling...against a weaker or nitty opponent, i will 3bet it much more often and try to take it down with a c-bet regardless of the flop...this works well against people that rarely float flops with nothing...

now if you are in a tournament, if you are shortstacked it's an auto shove...even if you arent shortstacked, i will often have no problem flipping it even if it's against QQ...you gotta stay alive in tourneys and winning flips is a part of that, and there's almost no better hand to crack big pp's than AK and you can be sure almost any opponent is willing to stack off JJ, 1010 etc...so if you have the chips to afford it, it's an easy flip, and if you dont have the chips to afford it, you will need to flip sooner or later anyway...not to mention you are dominating AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ...all hands that a guy with a stack will easily gamble with at a shot to knock you out.

long story short, i like AK much better in tourneys than cash games...if you are playing cash, just dont get carried away with it...same can also be said for AA and KK if you are playing postflop, but thats a whole other can of worms.

x2, I love reading opponents who have Ak or Aq and treat it like its a made hand pf....and when they completely miss the flop they still donk for that K or A. Yesterday I had a situation with a player who was 3 betting monsters pf. I had a high pp and took half his stack because his post flop play was so bad.

donking out on a 2s 3c 7h board

lol

**joelz54_99** · 10-29-2009, 08:36 AM

Thanks fellas very good information. This is great.

**NiR** · 10-29-2009, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by joelz54_99

Is going all in with AK the best move? Its basically a coin flip with any pair with the exception of AA or KK. Based on your research and experience what do you say?

i dont remember the last time i folded AK on a 6max or hu game.

**PotKettleBlack** · 10-29-2009, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by NiR

i dont remember the last time i folded AK on a 6max or hu game.

Folding AK before the flop is almost always horrible.

**E_N_D_L_E_S_S** · 10-30-2009, 01:12 AM

and poker is a cruel mistress..
started that table at ~1.50 and 100ish hands later that happened;
i don't remember the last time i won with rockets.

edit:

donk play of AK now i'd reraise and he'd call, i raised all in on the turn to put me all in, i think i'm done for tonight

**Loctus** · 10-30-2009, 07:06 AM

I just threw in $140 on full tilt and I'm gonna give grinding NLHE a shot since it's easier to do while being braindead in the middle of the night compared to PLO. Now I just need to move that roll up until I can play NL100 steadily. I do have to say; Holy crap people are retarded at 10NL, how can some of you guys not beat it? And don't say bad beats because I run bad at times aswell.

Currently 8-tabling 6-max 10NL. Played about three hours tonight and went from $140 to $222. I'll stick to the basic 20 buyins thinking until later limits when the swings are worse and I'll increase the number of buyins.

Funniest hand of the night:
EP lims, folds to me in the sb, I'm bored and I love -EV decisions so I complete with 52o, bb checks.

Flops comes AA4. Pot is what, 30cents? I'm thinking that since EP limped and bb just completed and two aces are on the board it's unlikely that any of them has an ace and they won't be able to continue with a hand like 78s if I bet although it's unlikely that I have an ace aswell, so donkbet 20c. bb folds, EP raiser minreraises to 40c. Ugh. Oh well, 20c to see a gutshot in a 90c pot and we have full stacks? Ok, call.

Turn is a very very very pretty 3. We put our money into the middle (yes, went from $1.1 pot to $20 pot there) and he has A8 and he doesn't hit the river. Oh lawd he yelled in chat after that.

^tldr, I know.

**Rizen** · 10-30-2009, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Loctus

Flops comes AA4. Pot is what, 30cents? I'm thinking that since EP limped and bb just completed and two aces are on the board it's unlikely that any of them has an ace and they won't be able to continue with a hand like 78s if I bet although it's unlikely that I have an ace aswell, so donkbet 20c. bb folds, EP raiser minreraises to 40c. Ugh. Oh well, 20c to see a gutshot in a 90c pot and we have full stacks? Ok, call.

Turn is a very very very pretty 3. We put our money into the middle (yes, went from $1.1 pot to $20 pot there) and he has A8 and he doesn't hit the river. Oh lawd he yelled in chat after that.

nh.

**Stoicao** · 10-30-2009, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by FiLL

^^ no1 gives a sh!t about those busto sng wins here, or at 2p2 either. lul

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...air-2s-619690/

lmao at posting that at 2+2! is he banned yet?

**PotKettleBlack** · 10-30-2009, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Stoicao

lmao at posting that at 2+2! is he banned yet?

''Beat: My 11 year old sister gets more money a day for lunch then you buy-in for. ''

Pwned.

**TDmuscle25** · 10-30-2009, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Loctus

I just threw in $140 on full tilt and I'm gonna give grinding NLHE a shot since it's easier to do while being braindead in the middle of the night compared to PLO. Now I just need to move that roll up until I can play NL100 steadily. I do have to say; Holy crap people are retarded at 10NL, how can some of you guys not beat it? And don't say bad beats because I run bad at times aswell.

Currently 8-tabling 6-max 10NL. Played about three hours tonight and went from $140 to $222. I'll stick to the basic 20 buyins thinking until later limits when the swings are worse and I'll increase the number of buyins.

Funniest hand of the night:
EP lims, folds to me in the sb, I'm bored and I love -EV decisions so I complete with 52o, bb checks.

Flops comes AA4. Pot is what, 30cents? I'm thinking that since EP limped and bb just completed and two aces are on the board it's unlikely that any of them has an ace and they won't be able to continue with a hand like 78s if I bet although it's unlikely that I have an ace aswell, so donkbet 20c. bb folds, EP raiser minreraises to 40c. Ugh. Oh well, 20c to see a gutshot in a 90c pot and we have full stacks? Ok, call.

Turn is a very very very pretty 3. We put our money into the middle (yes, went from $1.1 pot to $20 pot there) and he has A8 and he doesn't hit the river. Oh lawd he yelled in chat after that.

^tldr, I know.

Hey Loctus whats your ftp SN?

**joelz54_99** · 10-30-2009, 08:39 AM

Sh.it got tooled with J3s against my JJ. He missed the flop but still went all in and caught runner runner diamond. So many donks but not enough br to come back.

**Rizen** · 10-30-2009, 09:17 AM

Loctus did you get rakeback on FT?

**Boxerz** · 10-30-2009, 10:07 AM

i raise OTB with ATs and get 3 betted by BB who just sat down. I call and he checks on a AT7 board and I bet out because there is a FD there and any higher ace will insta call/raise. I get raised all in and I call and turn comes a T for my boat and river comes a Q. He flips over QQ, WTF!?

**ptwa9** · 10-30-2009, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

long story short, i like AK much better in tourneys than cash games...if you are playing cash, just dont get carried away with it...same can also be said for AA and KK if you are playing postflop, but thats a whole other can of worms.

Some of the earlier stuff you said I agree with. But the same cannot be said for AA, KK. If you are dealt these hands, you HAVE to isolate someone heads up. This means large preflop raise. You are never beat before the flop and you are +EV against anything out there. No matter if you fit or don't fit the flop, every chip your opponent matches you and puts into the pot is statistically more likely to be yours (by definition of EV), so you can only make money in the long run by always, always, always raising AA, KK preflop - now the amount you raise depends on your read of what your opponents are willing to call... but you simply have to be aggressive here and fold out those drawing hands with the monster PPs.

**ptwa9** · 10-30-2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Ilovehotmoms

x2, I love reading opponents who have Ak or Aq and treat it like its a made hand pf....and when they completely miss the flop they still donk for that K or A. Yesterday I had a situation with a player who was 3 betting monsters pf. I had a high pp and took half his stack because his post flop play was so bad.

donking out on a 2s 3c 7h board

lol

Exactly. A lot of the EV of AK comes from the flop. If the flop misses, then you're now completely crushed by ANY pair (not just AA, KK). Your chances of improving are now worse than a flush/OES draw, so there's no reason to be in the hand, except if you're heads up and think you have fold equity.

**TheatreWish** · 10-30-2009, 12:09 PM

Need help.

giving 1.5:1 for anyone who will do paypal to pokerstars trade

**joelz54_99** · 10-30-2009, 01:34 PM

yay!! Pstars now allowing min deposit of $10 through echeck!!! gogogogogogogo

**Smurg** · 10-30-2009, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by ptwa9

Exactly. A lot of the EV of AK comes from the flop. If the flop misses, then you're now completely crushed by ANY pair (not just AA, KK). Your chances of improving are now worse than a flush/OES draw, so there's no reason to be in the hand, except if you're heads up and think you have fold equity.

I hope no one listens to your advice. The equity and significance of AK comes from preflop where you basically play it as a big pair. You have your c-bet and double barreling capability depending on the board and your opponent, as well as it's obvious top pair equity.

And if they aren't completely braindead, then they aren't playing any pair that "crushes" you very far unles it JJ/QQ barring some reads.

And there are still flops where you don't pair that you still aren't "crushed" on against a total fish's range of low pp either:

Board: Jc Jh 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.374% 61.92% 00.45% 613 4.50 { 7c7h }
Hand 1: 37.626% 37.17% 00.45% 368 4.50 { AcKd }

--------------------------------

**EatMarkers4lunch** · 10-30-2009, 02:35 PM

anyone try any rakeback systems besides bonus 100%? which should I use? I see rakebrain. Also which site has the most donkeys so I can make some cash? I recently was in Fulltilt and had 30 bucks in I'm cashing out 100 bucks and a whole bunch of players play tight in 25 or 50 cent bb games.

Thread: OFFICIAL: Poker thread part3

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