Does 1-test and PH really work -RANT-

[triggerfinger]

Or are we just a bunch of suckers

How many PH cycles have you done?

My LBM was 185 before my first cycle. I have done 3 cycles all together. Lets just say I gained 5lbs on each. I should now have a lbm of 200

Well I am now 208 and have a nice sized gut and proably need to get back down to 185 to get rid of it.

I spent tons of money on supps and PH and where did it get me.

I However am not the norm. I had an injury that has kept me out for 6 months, but in 6 months I doubt I have lost 15lb of muscle and if I did I should be able to get it back fairly quickly( Muscle memory, yada yada)

Duds are posting huge gains and claim they keep it all. Does anyone have a comprenhensive log that covers more than one cycle. Has anyone started at 10% BF 185lbs and after a few cycles is 10% and over 200lbs?

Please keep in mind I am not claiming any point but I am starting to think that PH and 1-test have been a waste of time and money for me

Stats
1.) I am not a pro BB
2.) I am an average joe who wants to look and feel good.
3.) I do not have a perfect diet 24/7/365 ( But pretty close)
4.) I am addicted to these boards
5.) I bust my butt in the gym 4 days a week
6.) I am not geneticly gifted

[tropicana]

it is very possible u lost 15 pounds on a 6 month lay off, u coulda be joking if u think it isnt possible..

and yes u should have muscle memory so u may be able to gain it back in a couple months..

[tweeter37]

Maybe your diet sucked. You can take all the prohormones or steroids you want, but if your diet sucks, forget it.

[MrTrap]

Originally posted by triggerfinger


1.) I am not a pro BB
2.) I am an average joe who wants to look and feel good.
6.) I am not geneticly gifted

In that case, even if these things do work, why spend the money on them? I'm not arguing against, just posing the philosophical question.

Traps

[d piece]

I gained 20lbs on cycle, bodyfat went up 1% only (7pt caliper).
My only problem was as soon as I stopped I got sick for 4 days and I lost about 5lbs. I was taking 6-oxo as post cycle recovery and I heard lack of estrogen can make one more susceptible to illness, plus I was on a plane. I JUST got over being sick but im maintaining my weight now and im going to hit the gym tonight, hopefully there will be some slight "muscle memory" and I can get those 5lbs back in several weeks.

[Dante B.]

How can you doubt that being out for 6 months won't cause one to lose 15 pounds of muscle. Do you assume muscle to be this readily maintained.

I can't see how you go from this point, to any point about PH's.

[liftbig]

trigger, ph arent that great, you know, you tried them and look. Most people on here are teens and they use a ph, gain a little fat and water, then they think they just gained some solid muscle from the ph.

[liftbig]

d piece, 20lbs on ph? WOW, and only %1 bf increase, are you sure you werent using real gear? I used ph and i consider myself genetically gifted, the most i gained was maybe 1olbs, with most of it being fat and water.

[rb82]

i thnik there are only 2 explanations for anybody who gains more than 10lbs from doing a cycle

1) you start to bulk up and really increase your calories, which is responsible for the weight gain and not the prohormone

2) or you can just BS
like our friend here who gaind 20lbs with only 1% increase in bodyfat

[Dante B.]

Yawn. So trite. Try another argument.

Some fun, let's say, shall we have:

Let's see three cogent, scientific explanations as to why Pro-Hormones can't work, and can't possibly lead one to gain twenty-pounds, like their illicit counterparts.

or you can just BS like our friend here who gaind 20lbs with only 1% increase in bodyfat

I guess everything smells foul when time's spent with your head buried in your ass.

[d piece]

Wow, sound like someone has sand in his vagina.
I had great gains, you wasted your money, I can see why you would be jealous. Maybe its time you starting eating something other than happy meals and you might see better gains.

[d piece]

Originally posted by liftbig
d piece, 20lbs on ph? WOW, and only %1 bf increase, are you sure you werent using real gear? I used ph and i consider myself genetically gifted, the most i gained was maybe 1olbs, with most of it being fat and water.

Heh I dont think so, but maybe someone has been spiking my protein shakes.
I took low dosages of Nordiol with moderate to high dosage of 1-AD, they both use the beta3 enzyme so I decided to go high on the one that seems to be more anabolic since I cant go high on both. I was taking 600mg 1-AD for 3 weeks, then I took 900mg fo weeks 4-6. Of the Nordiol I took 300mg weeks 1 and 2 and weeks 5 and 6. I took 600mg during weeks 3 and 4.
As for putting on fat, its really hard for me to anyway because I train so much. I lift 5 days a week plus I grapple/ground fight for 2 hours twice a week and practice striking/standup for 1 hour twice a week, both of these are very cardio intensive. And yes sometimes I do get overtrained, I usually take a few days off from everything to let myself heal every 2 weeks or so. When I was on my cycle I only took a few days off once because I figured I would be repairing at a much faster rate.
I didnt think people would be so skeptical about a 20lb gain, I thought that was pretty normal but I guess not. Anyway thanks for expressing your skepticism without being a complete dick and just calling me a liar like rb82.

[triggerfinger]

But where are the guys who have been on more than one cycle and have drasticly increased there LBM. ie " I have done 3 1-test cycles and I have been off cycle for a year and put on 20lb of lbm and here are the pictures"

I just never see any post like that. I do see alot of posts " hey I gain 20lb lbm on 1 cycle.

Am am not a young guy and no a newbie to weight traing. I came close to my natural plateau years ago.


Dante - the point is not about me losing 15lbs while I was out. I know I lost alot. I just don't think I gained the 15lbs to begin with. 15lbs of a LMB a year would be a nice stat. Where are the guys who have had results that can prove my therory wrong. Crap I hope I am wrong, I can use all the help I can get

d-piece - I know how eat and has a very good diet on my cycles.



I wonder if it is like with real gear. With the As you put on th mass and while offf the body nat t cannot hold the mass. Maybey quality muscles comes at like 2-3 lb lbm per year

[rb82]

Originally posted by Dante B.
Yawn. So trite. Try another argument.

Some fun, let's say, shall we have:

Let's see three cogent, scientific explanations as to why Pro-Hormones can't work, and can't possibly lead one to gain twenty-pounds, like their illicit counterparts.



I guess everything smells foul when time's spent with your head buried in your ass.

how about you show me a scientific study that says that Pro-hormones do work you ****ing moron

[TomGS]

1-Test isn't a ph, and yes it does work. As for most ph's like andro ,19 nor etc, I think they are mostly garbage.

[liftbig]

Dante B. lets see a study that shows ph's work, and please not some study by a supplement comp.

I have used 1 test and 4-ad.... did i gain some weight? yes, was most of it water and fat? Yes. I go by what Tom Prince said about ph, ''if steroids are a race car, then ph is like a roller skate missing 3 wheels''. Ph's are so new and no one knows really what the heck they do. **** the weight increase could be a rise in estrogen, because its a fact when estrogen rises people tend to hold water.

[d piece]

Originally posted by triggerfinger

d-piece - I know how eat and has a very good diet on my cycles.

My comments were not directed at your, sorry, they were for rb82.

[guitarlifter]

I tried andro awhile back, and didn't think I had any results from it. I went on a 1-test, 4-AD cycle about 3 months ago. I was on 150mg of 1-T and 175 mg 4-AD per day. I went 5 wks on, 5 wks off, 5 weeks on.
I started at 190 lbs. Ended at 227lbs.
Did I gain some fat? Yes.

I have been lifting weights over 13 years. I can tell you that the gains I made were not "normal" for me. After ending my cycle I went on a keto diet to lose some fat (because, yes, I did gain some). I am now 210 lbs, and probably leaner than I was at 190lbs (judging from a mirror).

I could be an exception, but I really feel they did do something for me. At the end of April I'm going on my second cycle and trying the German Volume approach to training. I'll see how that goes.

[Ice Man]

Originally posted by d piece
Heh I dont think so, but maybe someone has been spiking my protein shakes.
I took low dosages of Nordiol with moderate to high dosage of 1-AD, they both use the beta3 enzyme so I decided to go high on the one that seems to be more anabolic since I cant go high on both. I was taking 600mg 1-AD for 3 weeks, then I took 900mg fo weeks 4-6. Of the Nordiol I took 300mg weeks 1 and 2 and weeks 5 and 6. I took 600mg during weeks 3 and 4.
As for putting on fat, its really hard for me to anyway because I train so much. I lift 5 days a week plus I grapple/ground fight for 2 hours twice a week and practice striking/standup for 1 hour twice a week, both of these are very cardio intensive. And yes sometimes I do get overtrained, I usually take a few days off from everything to let myself heal every 2 weeks or so. When I was on my cycle I only took a few days off once because I figured I would be repairing at a much faster rate.
I didnt think people would be so skeptical about a 20lb gain, I thought that was pretty normal but I guess not. Anyway thanks for expressing your skepticism without being a complete dick and just calling me a liar like rb82.

3 words... I envy you.

I don't know if I can say PH's or Pro steroids work for me either. Maybe by body just doesn't respond. I mean my goal was not to gain any weight just keep what I had while cutting. I figured hell I should be a little stronger but I can't tell any worthwhile strength increase after 4 weeks. But then again maybe its me, maybe I just don't respond well to these methods of application. As far as scientific data goes... I really don't give a rats ass. Whats the point if it doesn't work for me right. In the end thats all we can really care about unless we are selling the stuff. Well figured I'd add my 230 cents. Later

[AliveGuy]

Originally posted by rb82
how about you show me a scientific study that says that Pro-hormones do work you ****ing moron

Are you to assert that 4-diol does not convert to Testosterone? You want scientific proof they "work", and that is how they function, via conversion to an anabolic hormone, although 4-AD has been shown to be anabolic on its own.


But beside the point, will you shut the **** up if you get one study showing 4-diol converting to test?

[AliveGuy]

Look at this ****ing topic...look. Do they "Work"? The word "work"....define it? Do they convert? Are they anabolic on their own? Do they promote muscular hypertrophy? So much can be prven via scientific studies.


Do they "work", in the sense of making me a big ass mother without doing anything...well....

Sometimes wether they "work" depends on your definition of "work" and is entirely up to you an your PH usage.

[Patuba]

I can't give you any scientific study that PHs work but I can tell you my unbiased experience with them.

I just finished a 4 week One+ cycle and gained 11 lbs.

Did I gain water weight? Yes about 3-5 pounds which I'll loose post cycle.

Did I gain any fat? Yes I would say I got a little more fat in the midsection but not a lot.

Did I gain any muscle? I haven't had my bodyfat % checked but I can tell you that I don't look like I've gained much fat. I'd say at least 5lbs of muscle increase.

Did I get strength increase? Yes, I'm stronger than I've ever been before and set personal bests in all my lifts.

While I think some of my positive results came from my increased calories, I'm certain that the One+ helped considerabily. I think it would of taken my at least 2 months or more to make the strength increases if I didn't use the One+. I didn't get the remarkable increases that I've read about on this board, i.e. gaining 20lbs. in 4 weeks but I did pretty good.

Will I do another cycle? Yes.

Do I work for Avant Labs or any supplement company? No

[mntbikedude]

I am going into my 3rd week post one+ cycle......I gained about 8lbs and lost most of it post cycle.....

However I had great strength gains that are only slightly lower than on cycle..... I gained an inch on my arm and 2 on my shoulders. I have not lost. I am more cut. Which I know wasn't the goal on one + but it happened.

I attribute that to the fact that I needed to monitor my calories better. I ate 6 times a day and all and I tried but really, I am convinced the diet is a major part of your gains on one+.

I will definately do more cycle's however next time I will have my diet laid out a week in advance same with post cycle......

OMT.....I just cannot tell you how amazing it felt to reach some lifting goals that quite frankly I thought would never happen.....


do I like one+ yeah .....hell yeah

[MrTrap]

Patuba, you've been training for about a year. How much do you weigh now? How strong are you?

[triggerfinger]

For you guys like Patuba and mtnbikedude. I have been there also. After my first cycle I gained an inchs had great strength increases.

Now lets look at next cycles. I am still looking for someone who has done 2nd and 3rd cycles. Where did you start out at and Where have you wound up after a few cycles.

Lets fine tune it a little more. Newbies to weight traing do not count. I think it scews the resuts.

I definitly think that 1-test does something. Man I felt great while I was on it. Couldn't wait to hit the gym. It would be great to be on all the time.............................................. .............maybe thats the catch. If you did constant cycling year round you could get the gains and keep them..............hmmm anyone out there doing that

[eclypz]

triggerfinger sez:

It would be great to be on all the time.............................................. .............maybe thats the catch. If you did constant cycling year round you could get the gains and keep them..............hmmm anyone out there doing that
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go over to the steroid forum and you will quickly realize that this is the case. spend a whole year paying attention to the happenings on there, and you will see people who just gained 15 pounds and are starting post cycle therapy BUT THEY'RE ALREADY PLANNING THEIR NEXT CYCLE. you will shake your head, saying to yourself, didnt this fool just get done with a cycle? Why is this guy talking about bridging?

Another point, it seems after the first few cycles that your gains arent always in the 20+ pounds range. Whether it is genetic limitations or receptor downgrade, your body doesnt want to put the weight on like it used to, regardless of whether you use steroids or ph's.

the biggest mistake people make with ph's isnt to overestimate their power, but to underestimate their power AND not realize the reality of hormonal manipulation, knowing it is not an end all be all, so many other factors must be taken into account.

Any time I see a thread that says ph's are junk, I laugh, just as much as I laugh when I read about someone who stopped being able to get an erection because of years and years of steroid use. Why do i laugh? Because these two people are one in the same, just at different times in their lives, and I hope for one that you decide to take the smart route and pay attention to what you are doing to your body. Im not saying dont use phs or steroids, but put some more intelligence and prudence into your manipulation of hormones. You will end up happier in the long run, and will be more pleased with the results in the short term.

[Ice Man]

Originally posted by triggerfinger

Now lets look at next cycles. I am still looking for someone who has done 2nd and 3rd cycles. Where did you start out at and Where have you wound up after a few cycles.

Lets fine tune it a little more. Newbies to weight traing do not count. I think it scews the resuts.

Ok I have been training for quite some time over 6 years. I went from 180 to 243 at some point. Not all muscle but definitly not at all fat. I have done a 1-Ad cycle, a 1-test cycle, and now I am on a Super One+ cycle with 1-Tu for some addition 1-test so I am not rubbing my self all the time.

I did see gains with the 1-Ad but that was mostly strength. At the time I was 210 and got to about 215.

The One cycle I tried to cut and I don't remember see squat from that cycle. Maybe it was too short, maybe I didn't use enough. I was doing 9 squirts 2x a day. I was 228 when I started and when I finished I was 218. Lost more strength than I wanted which was the purpose of the One in the first place.

That leads me to my current cycle try to cut again. I started at about 233 11% by calipers and almost at the end of week 4 I am 226 butt naked. Strength has increased ever so slightly. Example is none in bench still 275x8, 20lb in deads 425x8, 5lb in DB curls 75x8. None in Military press still 185x8. And 15 in squats 340x8.
2 more weeks to go.

Thats the facts.

-Ice

[Buckstevens]

Coming from a guy that has tried just about every supplement and whose list of 'junk supps' far exceeds my list of 'legit supps', I can say without hesitation that superone+ works very well. Could it have been Placebo effects? Sure, if you believe placebos can 'kick-in' after 2 weeks...and can cause you to bust out of your shirts in the shoulder, upperback, and chest areas...can cause you to put on 15 pounds in 5 weeks, about 8 lbs which was solid gain. But like with any supp, they need to be properly used and maintained or it is all a waste. I believe firmly that the most important part of taking a prohormone is post cycle maintenance.

My question for all pro-steroid/anti-prohormone users is this: Is the muscle tissue gained from a prohormone cycle any different in physiology than muscle tissue gained during a steroid cycle?

[triggerfinger]

Originally posted by Buckstevens
Coming from a guy that has tried just about every supplement and whose list of 'junk supps' far exceeds my list of 'legit supps', I can say without hesitation that superone+ works very well. Could it have been Placebo effects? Sure, if you believe placebos can 'kick-in' after 2 weeks...and can cause you to bust out of your shirts in the shoulder, upperback, and chest areas...can cause you to put on 15 pounds in 5 weeks, about 8 lbs which was solid gain. But like with any supp, they need to be properly used and maintained or it is all a waste. I believe firmly that the most important part of taking a prohormone is post cycle maintenance.

My question for all pro-steroid/anti-prohormone users is this: Is the muscle tissue gained from a prohormone cycle any different in physiology than muscle tissue gained during a steroid cycle?

So you gain 8lb of LBM this cycle. So for your next cycle you should be able to add your gains together 8 lbs lbm + next cycle lbm gains.

Weight is irrelevent is the LBM numbers that count

One+ worked very well for me while on. While off I was not able to keep the gains. I did not lose everything but reality was I gained a few lbs LBM but not 15,20,30 per cycle

Now out of that 8 if you keep 4 thats still good but you also ate real well( Increased cals) while on 1-test and exercised right. So maybe out of 4 you got 2 on your own. How much did your cycle cost? Was it worth the money to you. If so then that make you a satisfied customer

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by triggerfinger
But where are the guys who have been on more than one cycle and have drasticly increased there LBM. ie " I have done 3 1-test cycles and I have been off cycle for a year and put on 20lb of lbm and here are the pictures"

I just never see any post like that. I do see alot of posts " hey I gain 20lb lbm on 1 cycle.

Am am not a young guy and no a newbie to weight traing. I came close to my natural plateau years ago.


Dante - the point is not about me losing 15lbs while I was out. I know I lost alot. I just don't think I gained the 15lbs to begin with. 15lbs of a LMB a year would be a nice stat. Where are the guys who have had results that can prove my therory wrong. Crap I hope I am wrong, I can use all the help I can get

d-piece - I know how eat and has a very good diet on my cycles.



I wonder if it is like with real gear. With the As you put on th mass and while offf the body nat t cannot hold the mass. Maybey quality muscles comes at like 2-3 lb lbm per year

YOu can lose your gains from real gear too just as easily. It takes commitment (and intelligence) to keep your gains from steroids or prohormones. Diet, rest, (smart) training

OTOH, if you lose your gains from cycles then you still have muscle memory that you would not have had if you never had done a cycle.